Commissar Uri Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Thinking about buying two hydras for my small little force I have. The low point cost has attracted me but are they worth grabbing and using and if so is it true they serve better as a troop killer then what there purpose intended? Are they good skimmer killer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Assuming 7th doesn't change this they don't snap fire against skimmers, so yes they will be useful there but not shooting against troops. It should be an ease swap to have them built as Wyverns too so a couple of these boxes should work their way into most lists I reckon :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Could magnetise them. That's what I plan on doing when I get my wyvern battery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I don't have the model yet, but it looks to me like a matter of plugging the hydra autocannons in or not. Anyone with the kit able to elaborate on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Apostle_XVII Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yes. The weapon mounts are exactly the same. The Autocannons just slot into the mount barrels for a hydra and hold firmly on their own without magnets. The Wyvern has a cap that sits on the end of the mounts - this is much looser but the grip improves after undercoating :) so could theoretically switch between variants with minimal effort and no magnets required. Only problem being the Wyvern cap might scratch paint from the mount end which will later be exposed when equipped as a hydra (which is why I ended up sticking mine as the textured paint I use for a rust effect makes scratching almost certain). Hopefully you'll have better luck with it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well I glued mine together as a Hydra, but I think Dark Apostle has the right of it. Hydras got hit with the nerf bat for sure, but even with snapshots being -2 BS rather than reducing everyone to 1 BS, Guard only have 3 BS so we need stuff like the Hydra in any event for anti-air. That said, if the new vehicle rules we've heard about are both true and apply to flyers equally as ground vehicles, Hydras can now only glance stuff to death. I'm not sure what their chances of one-shotting stuff before were (probably not great) but this is another unwelcome nerf to a vehicle that I thought was fine at 75 pts, close-topped, with targeted vehicles unable to jink. I still think Hydras are worth it, especially if you're disinclined (like me) to invest in flyers. I am glad to see that flyers may be more balanced in 7th. It seems to me that a Pasquisher has a decent chance a one-shotting them with BS2 Vanquisher cannon re-rolling to hit and backed by a lascannon. EDIT: Of course, a Pasquisher costs the same as three Hydras. I'm pretty sure 3 Hydras could put down more than one flyer by hull points in a given shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I was always unimpressed when I played the hydra before the nerf. Now, for me, it's not even a question : I will never play them again. If your group is okay with FW, you could put plaform (hydra platform, or manticore AA platform if you take then for the AA). They're not better, but at least they're cheaper in pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I thought so, thanks for that Apostle. Perhaps a bit of matt varnish to protect the paint later would be worth it? I think as David said the Hydra lost out though I don't agree quite that badly, but since the Wyvern is best for being cheap it seems a good idea to get a couple for that and treat the Hydras as a handy alternative build should you come across flyers and skimmers a lot :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3689970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 wait...hydras shoot at skimmers with their full ballistic skill? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yes, yes they do. Jetbikes too. http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/librisrouge/HailHydra_zpsac697527.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhawk3015 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I would wait for 7th to drop before making the investment. If they were still able to rip up ground targets at full BS as well i would say go for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I'm prolly going to get a pair after 7th drops, then...I'm really warming to the idea of two proper tanks on top of a closed skyshield with a pair of hydras behind (elevated, and behind the tanks, they should only have LOS with aircraft, if that's what I want) for tourney purposes...~6 S7 hits on an enemy flier should be adequate anti-air, and since they (pending 7th) also do unkind things to wave serpents...heck, yeah! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Uri Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 It's why i looked at them. Eldar tau and dark elder field alot of skimmers so taking things that can deal with the threat at a low cost so i can take a :cuss ton of them is a bonus. I have also been lead to belive this is the way of the gaurd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If 7ed allows Hydras to fire at ground targets, it will be an auto-include in my lists given how strong s7 fire is. As of right now I get more out of an Extermiantor and Platoon AC on ground and ignore/paskisher/sabre platforms for AA. But then, I do play mech blitz, so it is not uncommon that enemy reserves arrive when it is too late for him. In a slower list, they are still a solid pick against the ever so dominant xenos but inferior to some other options in most other cases. The box is still a solid buy, given the incredible Wyvern Battery performance ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 7th won't let hydras shoot at ground targets...at their price, that would be so broken! The only question is whether they'll still shoot skimmers at BS3... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Who knows what happens in 7ed. For all we know the IG codex was written at the same time as the 7ed and thus it's more or less adjusted. Maybe that is also the reason why the LRBT didn't get cheaper and the Demolisher got a price hike. And maybe something will happen to the Hydra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If your group is ok with FW and you need AA, get Sabre Platforms. For the price of a naked Ogryn you get Skyfire TL Autocannon Artillery and you can take fifteen of them in a Platoon. EDIT - Your group probably won't stay FW-friendly if you take fifteen of them, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3690446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Sky fire says it can fire at other targets using snap shots only. I'm assuming that means ground targets aswell? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Weapons with sky fire can only fire snapshots at anything that isn't a flyer, skimmer, or flying monstrous creature. So that would include ground targets unless it is a skimmer, a hovering flyer, or a grounded FMC. NB that interceptor no longer mitigated the snap fire so sabre platforms took a big hit. I am disappointed they flyers, which were already too strong, got a bit stronger this edition. I think this change makes Hydras a bit more desireable though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Uri Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 So hydras can take on skimmers with no penalty. Interesting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumour Control Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yep, normal BS against things that fly and skim. Even 4 shots twin linked is worth a go in there is nothing else to fire at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm definitely getting a pair of hydras now. I refuse to field wyverns out of spite. They killed my griffons to elimiate competition with the wyvern, I want those back! Maybe as a datasheet? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Imperial Armour has Griffons. But the Wyvern performs so well, I do not see why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Sabres aren't as good, true, but they were bloody amazing before so it's no real loss. 120pts for all the AA you'll need. Still T7. Still W2. Still 4 S7 TL shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3697853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Sabres aren't as good, true, but they were bloody amazing before so it's no real loss. 120pts for all the AA you'll need. Still T7. Still W2. Still 4 S7 TL shots. As long as IA is allowed in your games... Imperial Armour has Griffons. But the Wyvern performs so well, I do not see why. See above, plus...I already own the griffons, and they are not at all the same...Large S6AP4 ordnace pieplate that rerolls scatter versus two small blast S4AP6 cover ignoring shred. S6 ordnance can hurt light vehicles that happen to be sitting next to the targeted troops, although I would hesitate to deliberately target one. And there's no comparison between S6AP4 and S4AP6, shred be damned. Vs T3 carapace in ruins, the griffon wounds on 2+ versus 3+ for the wyvern, with 4+ save either way. In the open (which includes behind an ADL), no save versus the griffon, full save versus the wyvern. Vs MEQs, 2+ to wound from the griffon, 4+ versus medusa, and yeah, 1/6 of wounds will cut armor. Doesn't offset the difference in to-wound chances. Anyway, I'll probably just end up taking an eradicator...120 points for an S6AP4 pieplate with no minimum range, AV14, ignores cover instead of ordnance, and the option for sponsons...yum! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/#findComment-3698210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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