march10k Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I like the bit about driving the hydra 12" because you are stuck with snap shots anyway...and as maneuver blockers, they're 6" slower than a hellhound that costs nearly twice as much... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3702460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 The way I see it if your already using any Imperial Armor books and want AA guns you should use the hydra's in those books. They are basically the old hydras, ya know closed top and ignore cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3702893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Uri Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I love how far this discussion has gotten and not only got the answer i wanted but i now may have to buy 4 hydra kits (to field 2 wyverns and 2 hydras at the same time as against a dark eldar army the hydras are good skimmer poppers and the wyvern is a good infantry killer) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3703578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 The way I see it if your already using any Imperial Armor books and want AA guns you should use the hydra's in those books. They are basically the old hydras, ya know closed top and ignore cover. I'm pretty sure C:AM rules override FW rules for the same vehicle! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3704078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Call me crazy, but I see the loss of ignoring jink as a benefit. Given the new Jink rule, it can open up some nice paychological play. If you open up with 2 Hydras on a skimmer or flyer, the opponents needs to declare whether to jink before rolling to hit. Now, 8 TLAC shots are not guaranteed to kill av12 in one shooting phase. Hell, I sometimes had more shots doing nothing. But chances are they murder it. And here is the thing, the opponent can not see how many glances there are, he only knows the amount of shots. And 8TLAC is dangerous. He can gable and let them go through but more often than not he is going to jink. And that is all I need. Snap shots next turn gimp his shooting. If he does not jink it is left up to the dice what happens. With ignoring jink you always know what to expect and you can act accordingly but in my humble opinion uncertainty is a way crueler opposition than ignoring jink saves. Sure, I'll miss it but for everything I have lost I have gained new opportunities ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3704709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Call me crazy, but I see the loss of ignoring jink as a benefit. Given the new Jink rule, it can open up some nice paychological play. If you open up with 2 Hydras on a skimmer or flyer, the opponents needs to declare whether to jink before rolling to hit. Now, 8 TLAC shots are not guaranteed to kill av12 in one shooting phase. Hell, I sometimes had more shots doing nothing. But chances are they murder it. And here is the thing, the opponent can not see how many glances there are, he only knows the amount of shots. And 8TLAC is dangerous. He can gable and let them go through but more often than not he is going to jink. And that is all I need. Snap shots next turn gimp his shooting. If he does not jink it is left up to the dice what happens. With ignoring jink you always know what to expect and you can act accordingly but in my humble opinion uncertainty is a way crueler opposition than ignoring jink saves. Sure, I'll miss it but for everything I have lost I have gained new opportunities +1! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3704869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The way I see it if your already using any Imperial Armor books and want AA guns you should use the hydra's in those books. They are basically the old hydras, ya know closed top and ignore cover. I'm pretty sure C:AM rules override FW rules for the same vehicle! Does it? Is this written somewhere? Just wondering because I am bringing a DKoK army to a tourney soon and IA12 has the old Hydra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3704954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think it's an unwritten rule, but it might be down in a FW book somewhere. I get the feeling it's not something with a clearly defined answer either way so I'd tread carefully. If it's a tourney the best thing to do is contact the organisers as they're the final word on what is legal for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3704986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I know it was written in at least one previous edition's BRB, in the same paragraph that specified "Codex FAQ>Codex>BRB FAQ>BRB," but it's not in the 7th edition one. Nevertheless, if you ask GW, they'll tell you the codex overrides the FW rules nine times out of nine. Nothing preventing a house rule, and you can have AV14 S9 hydras with your opponent's permission, but if you bullied an unwitting opponent into accepting your alternative rule-set, you'd deserve a dreadsocking... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3705105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 but if you bullied an unwitting opponent into accepting your alternative rule-set, you'd deserve a dreadsocking... bullocks! the IA list is a stand alone list and therefor uses the profiles and pointcosts used in it, unless FAQ'ed to do otherwise. it's been like that always, ask any black templar player who still used the combat only inv save storm shields back when everyone else got to have the good ones. or would you rule that the IA armoured battalion now also gets to use all the cheaper leman russes? having a stand alone codex entry can be an advantage and a disadvantage, but there's no reason to use an alternative ruleset when the army list is clear on what profile to use. Now, if the IA army list said "Hydra, 75 pts, use the entry in the codex imperial guard" you might have a point, and even than there has not been any FAQ stipulating the the codex IG should be replaced by codex:AM.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3705135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The way I see it if your already using any Imperial Armor books and want AA guns you should use the hydra's in those books. They are basically the old hydras, ya know closed top and ignore cover. I'm pretty sure C:AM rules override FW rules for the same vehicle!Where does it say this? Cause the FW faq has not been updated to say anything like use rules found in C:AM. If what you say is true,(im not calling you a liar) then wouldn't C: AM invalidate most of the IG units in all the Imperial armor books? Basically saying to those of us that spent a lot of money on IA books, thanks suckers now go f yourself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3705272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Calm down, gents. If you're fielding an army out of a FW book, obviously, the FW rules are the ones you use. I'm saying you can't field an army a detachment out of C:AM, and then go cherrypick one set of alternate vehicle stats out of a FW book when it suits you. Armored battalion gets cover-denying closed crew compartment hydras. Generic IG does not. If you show up with substantially a battleforged IG army straight out of the IG codex, but wanting to use FW rules for the hydras, I'm calling you unbound because the hydra you're fielding isn't in C:AM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291153-hydra/page/3/#findComment-3705707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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