Musings on small units and survivability

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys !

 

I really like small units ! Unfortunately, the W40k fluff is very misleading regarding the space marines, and on the table top they perform far less efficiently than in the fluff. It's okay, I've grown to accept that, after all, they might be facing the Elite of the Elite of xenos and heretics alike !

 

I came to the conclusion that at the appropriate operating range for Marines (which is 12", so you get all the options for Rapid Fire, pistol, special weapons, or charging), small units do not have the sufficient survivability when operating in relative independence, regardless of the type of unit. It felt so much easier to just cram up as many Marines as you could in the opponent's face to hamper his battle plan. What Marines lack in burst damage, they make up for damage over time however, and to be efficient, you've got to make sure that your unit stays alive long enough to do its bidding.

 

While the base statline of the Marines is the easiest to play, because you can't go wrong, a damage over time army is the most difficult type of all to play. It's easy to point "fire and forget" units at their designated target, and watch them get wiped out in return. Marines, unfortunately, do not have the proper tools to do that compared to other armies out there.

 

Survivability is then the key success factor for Marines armies, and their base statline makes the job easier. I beleive any Space Marine army should try to capitalize on that. That's how they are going to win the game.

 

From the different tabletop experiences I've had, small and very elite units lack survivability to be the main advancing force of a Space Marines army, when taken individually or when you consider their operating scene :

- A melta suicide squad will perform exactly like that : melta, then get killed

- 6 Tacticals in a Razorback will likely get blown to bits if they are the only advancing force

- A buffy solo Captain, although easy to hide, will attract the attention of a smart opponent, and only has 3 wounds

 

Survivability, overall, is not only a matter of dice rolls (although they affect much !) but is defined by the combination of the following elements that strengthen Survivability :

- Armour saves

- Cover saves

- Invulnerable saves

- Toughness

- Wounds

- Number of models close by

- Line of sight

- Range

 

With all these Key Survivability Factors (see what I did there ?) taken into account, a Multiple Small Units build as a main advancing force can prove efficient, provided you have enough models nearby. That means Many Multiple Small Units.

 

Keeping that in mind, would you agree that when playing a small unit (5-6 Marines in Power Armour, regardless of the unit type) with high weapons density in order to increase survivability, we should :

1) Seek cover, use longer range weapons and line of sight blocking

or

2) Throw it on the front with A LOT of other units, so that your opponent either focuses on one unit, or spreads his shots on the others.

 

This is not an innocent question ! I love the idea of small units of Marines (kill teams) operating independently regardless of their goal, I can't find a proper way to dish out as much damage as I'd hope. Perhaps this is because I geared them too close range, and they don't have enough numbers of models nearby.

I also damn love the concept of the Razorback and I damn want them to be useful in my game ! :D

 

What do you guys all think ? How can we leverage survivability to boost our Marines units ?

[minigun762]

I've always had the opposite view, that even 10 marines is too few and would consider twenty to be sufficient for most independent operations.

 

Marines can win most attrition battles but you need the bodies there to start with to have enough critical mass to still be effective after taking a pounding from a Xeno death ray as you're closing.

[GreyCrow]

In terms of tabletop examples, what would you consider independent operations ?

 

EDIT : By that I mean, do you consider independent operations as a forward battleforce on the battlefield, used for recon and dispatching isolated enemy pockets ? In that case, I'd agree with you.

What I meant by independent operations was within the confines of a battle, a unit can do a job (hold a part of the battlefield, dispatch a key enemy unit, etc), with low/no support from the rest of the force.

[minigun762]

In terms of tabletop examples, what would you consider independent operations ?

Typically an objective (for troops) or a primary enemy unit like their warlord or expensive heavy support.

 

This does assume that the opponent is putting up a reasonable defense of said objective or unit. If not, the required resources are naturally decreased.

[Azash]

I have always found 5 man units inadequate for PA troops. Its not so much as what I s wrong in our codex but armor 3 has gotten nerfed to all hell in 40k.

 

Two armies effectively have rending on all base weaponry. So a squad of guardians can wipe out 5 marines.

 

There are so many ap2-3 pie plate and template weapons in the game its rediculous now.

 

Marines succumb to weight of dice so there is a definite ratio of survivability when it comes to models. X number of orks assaulting Y number of marines = marines survive. If your at Y-3 then you might as well be rocking IG armor saves.

 

Most codexes allow for blob units then allow those blob units to minimize the deficiency of cheap troops through underpriced USR's.

 

I can go on but you see my point, bodies equals survivability. Terminators are barely good enough to survive in 5 man units, power armor has no shot.

[Kaedes Nex]

I think MSU is great so long as you have the troop slots and are not playing kill point objectives. Because if they can't kill 5 marines a turn, you have useful remainders that can soak overwatch or cap objectives or force them to waste an entire other squad to finish them off. If they can kill over 5 marines a turn you limit the damage to only 5. You also open up options for more vehicles and wargear and characters than full squad sizes.

 

On KP missions the squad footprint is small enough that you can play defensively or reserve them altogether to minimize losses, since tactical squads are not the killiest unit anyway, and it's only 1/6 of book missions. Obviously MSU doesn't work for C:SM if you play custom tournament scenarios where KP is always a primary or secondary.

[Excubitor]

I usually run demi-company lists, based around 30 tactical marines, 10 assault, and 10 devastator. Usually, this is split into 2x 10 man tacticals as a main line, 2x 5 tacticals supporting them, a combat-squadded Devastator squad with 2 heavies in each, and 3 attack bikes/6 man bike squad with 2 Land Speeder Typhoons.

 

In effect, my tacticals operate in 2 15-man blocks, supported by mobile elements and a pair of small fire support bases, before the rest of my list impacts on this. This can change dramatically depending on the list of course, but that is my basic, tried-and-true set-up.

 

5-man units are mobile enough to get to places that a 10-man unit might be put into a vulnerable position to get to, and can take on opponents a 10-man unit might be overkill for. Also, the 10 man unit will tend to take more fire because of their greater threat potential.

 

10-man units have greater volume of fire and survivability, giving them greater ability to hold or take key battlefield points. If necessary, they can be used to hold off an enemy unit for a turn so you can get support to an area that might be overwhelmed.

 

I find using these together offers me the greatest tactical flexibility. With the rumoured changes to penetrating hits, I'll be trying these with Dreadnoughts again, to add yet another dimension to the tactic.

[incinerator950]

Plague Marines have FnP, the extra toughness, two specials, and a poisoned knife.  I feel that's justified at the small unit level.

Other units however, I'm not so keen on unless they do have firepower to match, but I would rather have ten man units.  However, this is a factor of price, and for chaos price just means less Obliterators or Heldrakes for an increasing amount of people.  Rubrics have that invul and AP3 bolters but their close combat and the usefulness of their AS isn't justified with a price tag that rivals Possessed.  In which, Berzerkers and Possessed are required to be taken in large numbers just to survive to make it to combat, and survive long enough to win the engagement.  Noise Marines are more surgical than plague marines.  They're cheaper, lose in specials and have to buy/trade melee, but they make up for it for the Initiative and sonic abuse.  Ignoring cover is great with the amount of overwatch and at MSU or 10+ they usually perform their cost.