Space Wolf "Watchdog" Squads: Not a silly idea if done right

[daveNYC]

 

I am still unsure why "turning into an insane flesh eating wolf monster" is considered to be a reliable safeguard against Chaos Corruption.

There are two forms of naturalism, or of being less than human. You can be a regressed member of a society red in tooth in claw, murdering your friends to get ahead and taking all the pleasures on offer, and you'd be Abaddon, in which case your human faculties are abused. You can be a wolf that eats when it's hungry and has no avarice, and you'd be a wulfen, in which case you have no human faculties.

 

 

>Dark Angel fans? Did you write a DA story or book at some point, or are they begging you to come in and rescue the DA plot line from wherever the hell it's managed to wander off to?

 

Problem with the watchdog squads is that:

1) The idea already failed horribly with Lorgar, and that was using Custodes. Now they're trying to recreate a failed plan using weaker assets.

You can completely contrast the two. The Custodes' job was to sort of prod him into being better at his job if they thought he was not trying hard enough. They have to decide both what it means to not be a team player, and what to do about it - it's not going to be killing Lorgar, because nobody could have guessed he was actually evil. The Wolves' job is to hold a gun to a primarch's head and pull the trigger if he turns into an actual enemy.

2) Any Primarch worthy of the name isn't even going to be slowed down by these guys.

Well they have guns, usually.

 

 

The Custodes were there to make sure that he stuck to doing what the Emperor wanted him to do and the way he wanted him to do it.  Not much different than what the Wolves are up to, and the Custodes managed to be hoodwinked up to the point where the shooting at Istvaan V happened.  And not just blind to the big picture, they had zero idea what was going on.  I'm not seeing the Wolves faring much better, spying (and I mean really spying, in A Thousand Sons Ahriman was under orders to answer Wyrdmake's questions) just isn't their bag.  

 

Yeah, the Wolves have guns, but the Primarchs all have bodyguards, super reflexes and toughness, and, most importantly, in any actual instance of turning traitor, the primarch would have the advantage of knowing what's up.  To even have a chance of using their guns, the Wolves would have to find out that the primarch was about to turn and then try and get the jump on him.

[Wade Garrett]

Given Vendatha's actions on Cadia, I think the Custodians were indeed authorized to put Lorgar down if he crossed certain lines. The problem was that he had some faint inkling of this and prepared countermeasures accordingly.

 

And I always thought of the Wulfen curse as being like the Black Rage (or the Thousand Son's flesh change, which Wyrdmake compares it to) a horrible affliction. Not "Ha ha I'm so awesome that if I get zapped with pure Chaos it just gives me super wolf powers while I remain completely untainted morally!"

[Greyall]

Not sure it's a matter of morals, they become beastly so I'd call it loyalty.

[Kol Saresk]

Except according to Space Wolf legend, the first Wulfen was a man who tried to attack Russ. The curse was then named after him. Of course, this is William King-old material so listen and ignore as your heart desires.

[Greyall]

Bran Redmaw - though I'm not sure he has 'temporary Wulfen' or something else - almost attacks a comrade in IA12, if memory serves.

 

They seem pretty tame in Thousand Sons, though.

[Wade Garrett]

When the Wolves herded them into the Thousand Sons?

 

That's also how the 40k Blood Angels et al use the Death Company, and I doubt anyone would claim those guys are tame.

 

And as far as thd William King novels go, Ragnar had to kill another aspirant who devolved into a wulfen and tried to eat him during the trials, which is more evidence on the "Not safe, sane, or friendly" side of the scales. Although as Kol said, that fluff is from an older time.

[Grimtooth]

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

 

I think it was ADB that I touched on this with, but the whole flip out into wulfen thing under stress or chaos influence was familiar to the same mechanic used in the old Conan the Barbarian universe.  There were several instances where Conan is facing sorcery of some sort and it is his primal fury of being a barbarian that he usually laspes into to break the spell or whatever to escape and go bang wenches once again.  The wulfen seems to reflect that writing mechanic and takes it a step further because said member of the Rout is pretty much lost forever.  We see in Battle of the Fang where a Blood Claw is lost and basically rips through Rubric Marines as if they are tissue paper, but in his last grasp of humanity he warns of his packmate because he knows he would basically kill him as well.

 

The problem lies in that we as readers have seen tons of wulfen.  We have the Ragnar series where we have wulfen in the 13th Co being led by a wolf priest who growl at Ragnar, but attack the enemy only.  We have the wulfen rune priest attacking two rune priests and a skaljd in Prospero Burns.  We have packs of wulfen in A Thousand Sons apparently ONLY attacking the enemy.  And we also have Beasts of the Underfang that noone actually knows what they hell they are, but apparently recognize Bjorn as their alpha, will attack human kaerls and iron priest thralls, and carve through Rubric Marine armor like butter.

 

So guess it will be a matter of waiting for the Prospero book to come up to actually find out the hardline on wulfen.

[Kol Saresk]

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

[Grimtooth]

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

It is a double-sided curse.  When a Blood Claw falls in Battle of the Fang, he is able to take out an entire squad of Rubric Marines by himself.  In that instance, a good thing.  The Wulfen in A Thousand Sons gouged a wound into the Thousand Sons lines.  Again, a good thing.  But like anything as volatile as something like that, it will obviously have it's bad side of it as well.

[daveNYC]

I will hold a private teble flipping ceremony if canon comes out that enshrines the Wulfen curse as being any sort of a good thing.

 

1) Flesh Change: Nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons once, was one of the things that tipped the balance at Prospero, led to the use of the Rubric which effectively destroyed any future the Sons could have.

 

2) Black Rage/Red Thirst: Turns it's victims into rampaging nutters.  At the current rate of progression it will lead to the distruction of all Blood Angel based chapters, the Red Thirst has already caused chapters to be Excommunicated or to adjust their tactics so they do not get Excommunicated.

 

3)Wulfen Curse: A defensive response to the taint of Chaos that leaves the individual as a more powerful but mindless monster that none the less will only attack the bad guys?

 

Number Three needs a lot more grimdark before I'll start digging on it.

[Clone]

 

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

He went full wulfen. Never go full wulfen.

[Grimtooth]

I will hold a private teble flipping ceremony if canon comes out that enshrines the Wulfen curse as being any sort of a good thing.

 

1) Flesh Change: Nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons once, was one of the things that tipped the balance at Prospero, led to the use of the Rubric which effectively destroyed any future the Sons could have.

 

2) Black Rage/Red Thirst: Turns it's victims into rampaging nutters.  At the current rate of progression it will lead to the distruction of all Blood Angel based chapters, the Red Thirst has already caused chapters to be Excommunicated or to adjust their tactics so they do not get Excommunicated.

 

3)Wulfen Curse: A defensive response to the taint of Chaos that leaves the individual as a more powerful but mindless monster that none the less will only attack the bad guys?

 

Number Three needs a lot more grimdark before I'll start digging on it.

Now you are just being obtuse.  The grief expressed over the loss of a packmate to the curse is immense, not to mention that the former packmate would be in just as much danger of getting sliced and diced as an enemy.  This has been expressed time and time again in the canon just how bad it is.  The fact the Wolves just take it and use it as an advantage does not detract from how bad it is in reality.  It is no different then the BA using the Death Company as extreme shock troops that are basically put down after a battle by Astroboy. 

 

The SW fans may think it is an advantage and that is clearly rooted not only in gameplay, but maybe the personality of the Legion in being so tied up in wyrd and whatever.  The idea that, "Hey, I am gifted by the Canis Helix to be this superhuman lupine badass, but I am also cursed by the Canis Helix to lose my humanity.  But damn if I wont be an absolute killing machine when it happens!!!"

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

 

 

It is a double-sided curse.  When a Blood Claw falls in Battle of the Fang, he is able to take out an entire squad of Rubric Marines by himself.  In that instance, a good thing.  The Wulfen in A Thousand Sons gouged a wound into the Thousand Sons lines.  Again, a good thing.  But like anything as volatile as something like that, it will obviously have it's bad side of it as well.

 

 

I agree in what you are saying that it is a useful thing. It has advantages. But as you point out in a later post, it is not celebrated by the Space Wolves nor is it seen as a good thing. The Canis Helix yes, it is the touch of Russ after all. But the Wulfen Curse, not so much. But that is part of the "greyness" of the Wolves; they will do whatever is necessary to kill the enemy. Even if it means using themselves as weapons. Which is kind of saying something since Astartes already are weapons.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

It is a double-sided curse.  When a Blood Claw falls in Battle of the Fang, he is able to take out an entire squad of Rubric Marines by himself.  In that instance, a good thing.  The Wulfen in A Thousand Sons gouged a wound into the Thousand Sons lines.  Again, a good thing.  But like anything as volatile as something like that, it will obviously have it's bad side of it as well.

Double sided is a good way to put it. The Helix, and the Curse of the Wulfen that goes with it, has always been a powerful, yet unstable gene-seed. It makes for strong Astartes, unmatched in some areas, and can stabilise to varying levels in different recruits (normal Space Wolf vs Mark of the Wulfen vs 13th company), the less stable, the more powerful the marine becomes, but that goes hand in hand with more feral and harder to control. And while it isn't celebrated by the Wolves, it does seem to be embraced/accepted, Far more so than other 'conditions' amongst the Astartes, like the Red Thirst and Black Rage.

[Grimtooth]

 

 

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

 

It is a double-sided curse.  When a Blood Claw falls in Battle of the Fang, he is able to take out an entire squad of Rubric Marines by himself.  In that instance, a good thing.  The Wulfen in A Thousand Sons gouged a wound into the Thousand Sons lines.  Again, a good thing.  But like anything as volatile as something like that, it will obviously have it's bad side of it as well.

 

I agree in what you are saying that it is a useful thing. It has advantages. But as you point out in a later post, it is not celebrated by the Space Wolves nor is it seen as a good thing. The Canis Helix yes, it is the touch of Russ after all. But the Wulfen Curse, not so much. But that is part of the "greyness" of the Wolves; they will do whatever is necessary to kill the enemy. Even if it means using themselves as weapons. Which is kind of saying something since Astartes already are weapons.

 

 

 

 

A rune priest in Prospero Burns got "touched" by the Primordial Creator and went full Wulfen trying to kill two other rune priests and a skajld.

That doesn't exactly help build a case for the Wulfen being a good thing.

 

It is a double-sided curse.  When a Blood Claw falls in Battle of the Fang, he is able to take out an entire squad of Rubric Marines by himself.  In that instance, a good thing.  The Wulfen in A Thousand Sons gouged a wound into the Thousand Sons lines.  Again, a good thing.  But like anything as volatile as something like that, it will obviously have it's bad side of it as well.

 

I agree in what you are saying that it is a useful thing. It has advantages. But as you point out in a later post, it is not celebrated by the Space Wolves nor is it seen as a good thing. The Canis Helix yes, it is the touch of Russ after all. But the Wulfen Curse, not so much. But that is part of the "greyness" of the Wolves; they will do whatever is necessary to kill the enemy. Even if it means using themselves as weapons. Which is kind of saying something since Astartes already are weapons.

Completely feared by the Wolves, but an accepted part of them.  In the Ragnar series, Ragnar is basically emo about it through the whole series.  Redpelt in Battle of the Fang lets loose with a howl of such grief that it was said to overcome the clamor of a battle and all in the Aett who heard it knew a packmate was lost to the curse.  The wolf priest in that novel gives a little stink eye to Jarl Greyloc when the jarl said that he wanted to just stay on the ice killing and killing, before concluding that it was "righteous" anger.  Even the use of the word, "skin wrought" my the rune priest turned into a Wulfen seems to be a deliberate use to denote something not desired or wished for.

 

The only ones that seem to keep it even closer then the normal members of the Rout and embrace it much more, are the members of the 13th Co in the Ragnar series.  I do not know if it is more about just total acceptance of wyrd for them being in the EoT for so long or they have come to see the curse and just being marked by the curse as more beneficial due to being in the EoT for so long.  They seem very comfortable with it and I wonder if this is because the curse was already pretty common in the 13th Co prior to going into the EoT.

[Stonerhino]

In Thunder from Fenris one Wolf turns Wulfen and leads the rest of his (Who are trying to kill him) to a powerful Nurgle daemon.  Then leads them to another Nurgle outbreak in the IG command.  Then in a later audio (can't remember the name) the last surviver of the pack chases the Wulfen because it is his responability to kill it.  Kind of a neat ending though.

 

Curse of Wulfen is not a good thing.  Oddly enough in Prospero Burns the Wulfen seem some what under control.  It might be posible that they like the Fenris wolves will follow an alpha.  It just takes a really strong alpha for force submission from a 3 meter tall werewolf.  Something that is lacking in 40K wolves.  With the exception of the Blood Claws that end up joining the 13th Co in the last of Ragnar's books.

[Grimtooth]

In Thunder from Fenris one Wolf turns Wulfen and leads the rest of his (Who are trying to kill him) to a powerful Nurgle daemon.  Then leads them to another Nurgle outbreak in the IG command.  Then in a later audio (can't remember the name) the last surviver of the pack chases the Wulfen because it is his responability to kill it.  Kind of a neat ending though.

 

Curse of Wulfen is not a good thing.  Oddly enough in Prospero Burns the Wulfen seem some what under control.  It might be posible that they like the Fenris wolves will follow an alpha.  It just takes a really strong alpha for force submission from a 3 meter tall werewolf.  Something that is lacking in 40K wolves.  With the exception of the Blood Claws that end up joining the 13th Co in the last of Ragnar's books.

Bjorn is available in 40k Wolves, basically the Alpha's Alpha.....lol!

[daveNYC]

 

I will hold a private teble flipping ceremony if canon comes out that enshrines the Wulfen curse as being any sort of a good thing.

 

1) Flesh Change: Nearly destroyed the Thousand Sons once, was one of the things that tipped the balance at Prospero, led to the use of the Rubric which effectively destroyed any future the Sons could have.

 

2) Black Rage/Red Thirst: Turns it's victims into rampaging nutters.  At the current rate of progression it will lead to the distruction of all Blood Angel based chapters, the Red Thirst has already caused chapters to be Excommunicated or to adjust their tactics so they do not get Excommunicated.

 

3)Wulfen Curse: A defensive response to the taint of Chaos that leaves the individual as a more powerful but mindless monster that none the less will only attack the bad guys?

 

Number Three needs a lot more grimdark before I'll start digging on it.

Now you are just being obtuse.  The grief expressed over the loss of a packmate to the curse is immense, not to mention that the former packmate would be in just as much danger of getting sliced and diced as an enemy.  This has been expressed time and time again in the canon just how bad it is.  The fact the Wolves just take it and use it as an advantage does not detract from how bad it is in reality.  It is no different then the BA using the Death Company as extreme shock troops that are basically put down after a battle by Astroboy. 

 

I disagree, the first two examples are existental threats to their respective chapters.  The Flesh Change led to the rubric and the various BA issues have been established as getting worse, eventually to be leading to the extintion of Sanguinius' bloodline.  The Wulfen, while not a totally good thing, is nowhere close to being in the same category as those two.  The fact that the Inquisition doesn't even seem to be sniffing around the subject (unlike in the case of the BA) is another point against it.

[Kol Saresk]

The Inquisition sniffs everything. The reason it isn't as bad as say, the Black Dragons is because the Space Wolves hide the Wulfen. Sure, everyone knows about the fangs and the enhanced-beyond-Astartes-norm senses, but the darker sides are kept secret. If they were more well-known, the Chapter would be at risk of purge on a regular basis. And therein lies the benefit of a setting that never moves forward. With the reappearance of the 13th Company in the Black Crusade, it would become virtually impossible to hide the Curse. But because we'll never really move on past the opening stage of the Black Crusade, we will never see any repurcussions.

[b1soul]

About the Wulfen, once a SW is transformed into a Wulfen...can he transform back into a lucid marine or is he permanently lost?

 

I'm guessing that after the battle, all the Wulfen on Prospero either had to be put down or somehow contained

[Kol Saresk]

He's stuck as a Wulfen. As far as I know, the closest to "changing back" was a couple of times in the Rangar series where a Space Wolf would start to change and get the golden eyes that the Wulfen have, but then stop. So not really a regression so much as a halting as the golden eyes remain. Ragnar himself is supposed to have been marked by this "halting".

 

That said, we've seen a few Wulfen that retain some mental lucidity, but not much. Enough to recognize friend and foe and be pointed in the right direction.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Bran Redmaw is said to sometimes mutate into a monster in battle...he even has a separate profile for when this occurs.

 

WLK

[b1soul]

The Curse of the Wulfen really seems more like a mixed blessing then 

 

To be fair, the Black Rage/Red Thirst is also something of a mixed blessing. It's one of the reasons the BA are great at CQC

 

I think however, a good writer would realise that these "mixed blessings" should be something like 70% curse, 30% blessing...and not the other way around 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I've always seen the Curse of the Wulfen as a double edged sword...it makes the afflicted a true monster in Close Combat, able to tear through even Astartes, but robs them of the control and pack brotherhood so highly prized by the Wolves.

 

WLK

[daveNYC]

It's bad for the individual so afflicted, but not really that bad for the chapter as a whole.  Again to compare it to what the Blood Angels deal with, the Red Thirst has led the Flesh Tearers to shy away from Imperial forces and head off on near suicidal missions where there are little to no friendly forces that might become victims of the Thirst.  Eventually this is going to lead to them biting off more than they can chew and getting wiped out, but that's fine since they're choosing to go out like a boss.  The Black Rage is stated as getting worse in all the Blood Angels chapters, and since only one person has ever come back from it, all the higher ups in the chapters know that they're pretty much doomed.

 

The Wulfen just need more grimdark in order to work.  Although given that the Space Wolves are space vikings who ride wolves and can turn into werewolves, perhaps ditching the wulfen as something that happens outside of a failed implantation might be a good idea.  I'm also kind of coming up blank on how to moar grimdark the Wulfen without stepping too much on the toes of the Death Company.

 

Also, someone needs to write an Inquisition novel covering an investigation of one of the more questionable (by the insane standards of the Imperium) chapters.  BT because they're way oversized, BA because of rip and tear, DA because they're totally loyal, all of them, shut up!, or SW because of the wulfen, numbers, and fallout from The Emperor's Gift.  I'd be willing to go limited editon on a novel that follows some poor lowly administratum scribe around as he's sent on a thankless task to try and do a census of the BT, and all the hyjinks that result as he tries to get a headcount of a fleet based chapter that's always on the sharp end of things.l