divination...

[Dallas Drake]

 

To chaos daemons, not to chaos in general.

 

As it is, I still think 7e, at the start, belongs to chaos daemons.  Tzeentch daemons, with their brotherhood of psykers, diffcult to ground psychic powered flying circus, and largely-to-entirely intact screamerstar in particular.

Why would anyone play a csm core list

 

Because playing this game is not all about winning EVERY game. Plus I like converting my own CSM models from GW/FW bits, love the fluff & think most of the Daemons models look goofy?

[Midnightmare]

^^ This for surez

 

OT it is nice to see Ahriman users being able to use divination, something I don't think that anybody would disagree with that he (and Tzeentch especially in general!) should have always had.

[hopkins]

If I have a lvl 3 Daemon Prince of Nurgle, do I get Nurgle's Rot as a Primaris power

Then if I wanted Biomancy, I just roll off 3 times and discard duplicates? I'm also guessing I can't get Smite, as that's the Primaris, and I'm already rocking a Nurgle primaris power?

[Sception]

I asked the oracle, and here's what it said:

 

"Reply hazy, try again."

 

"Better not tell you know."

 

"Try again later."

[the jeske]

if your a csm demon you take 1 nurgle[because you have to] and get the primaris , and then take 2 in biomancy.

[Hellrender]

If your daemon is from CSM, you need 1 of the powers from nurgle, and you get the nurgle Primaris.

 

However, the other 2 rolls, can be made on the biomanyc table, AND you can still turn 1in for the primaris if you so wish. Other psykers cant, because they already get the primaris trough battle focus.

[hopkins]

gotcha

[Sception]

Until the FAQ, it is not clear whether getting the primeris qualifies as having 'one power from your patrons discipline'.  If it does, then a level 3 CSM prince of nurgle can indeed have the nurgle primeris plus three rolls on biomancy.  If it does not, then the Prince Must take one nurgle power, then gets the nurgle primeris, then may only generate two powers from biomancy.

 

The latter interpretation is clearly worse for us, so I would be inclined to expect that to be the final answer once we get some sort of clarification.

 

However, in defense of the former, better-for-us interpretation, it is the only interpretation which fits with the stated limit of "at least one, but no more than half (rounded up)" of your powers coming from the patrons discipline.  If you go by the latter interpretation, you could take two nurgle powers, one from biomancy, and then get the nurgle primeris for free, which would result in having more than half of your powers from the patron discipline, which seems to be in direct conflict with the intent of the limit.

 

So yeah, if it were up to my interpretation, I'd say the limit on god powers would be checked at the end, counting all powers (including free focus powers), and as a result allowing us 3 rulebook powers plus the god-specific primeris.  Again, though, that interpretation is clearly better for us, so I expect it to be ruled the other way.

[MaliGn]

The entire reason for the chaos focus rule appears to be to offset our inability to use psychic focus since we can't load up on any power. However as it stands I'm with malisteen on this one, until we get a FAQ play it either way.

[Sception]

Actually, with either interpretation, the existence of the rule means we get a focus spell, while without the rule we'd get none, so while I agree with you on the intent, that intent still doesn't key us into which interpretation was intended.

[Hellrender]

Hadn't thought about it that way yet!

 

Lets wait for the FAQ then!

[Nehekhare]

hm, I interpreted it the way that we may even get two primaris because the chaos focus spell is not "generated".

[incinerator950]

When are they doing the faqs?

[crazyterran]

You still only currently generate in Sanctic/Malefic and the powers that your Codex says you get to generate from. For example (using C:SM), a Space Marine Librarian states that he can generate from Biomancy, Telekinesis, Pyromancy and Telepathy. Tigurius, on the other hand, states he can do all of the those and Divination.

 

Technically, Chaos had some form of access to divination via the randomly generated powers of the Scrolls of Magnus.

 

If you have a sixth edition codex, it states what powers you may generate from at the moment. Until an Errata/FAQ comes out, that's all anyone has. (I'd love for my normal Ultramarines Librarians to generate from Divination as well, as that's what my chart says they can take from as well.

 

Codex: Inquisition can also only do Divination, Pyromancy and Telekinesis, but the quick reference chart says that they can do everything. I'm assuming it's the same for Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Space Marines at the moment.

 

 

[RolandTHTG]

Mal, The CSM book says

...must roll at least one, and may roll up to half...

 

so there must be at least one roll on the Gods table. Even if you generate two powers from the Gods table, and get the Primaris, you still haven't ROLLED more than half (rounded up). So it is possible to have 3 of your 4 powers be from the Gods table with out breaking the rules, as you've only rolled 2 from the table.

[Nehekhare]

 

...must roll at least one, and may roll up to half...

 

too bad. then marked sorcs can never have primaris powers besides their god's and divination access is a trap. unmarked it is.

[daboarder]

except that entire paragraph is likely obsolete.

 

1) there are more ways to generate powers now than rolling

 

2) it also limits WHICH schools people have access to but no one is arguin that we must abide by those.

[Sception]

Actually, looking again, I'd agree with TJ.  Barring an explicit faq change to that bit in particular, that does make the less favorable interpretation the default.

 

Which means it's back to undivided sorcerers only, and support caster princes only from the daemons book, with jinking nurgle mace monsters as the only CSM prince.

[RolandTHTG]

 

 

...must roll at least one, and may roll up to half...

 

too bad. then marked sorcs can never have primaris powers besides their god's and divination access is a trap. unmarked it is.

 

No, because you can still swap a rolled power for the primaris. You just won't get it for free unless you go unmarked.

[daboarder]

there is no stipulation that all your powers have to be from a single discipline to get chaos psychic focus, thats the whole damned point, hell the text tells you you get your GOD power, which you cant do without a mark anyway.

 

sigh

 

 

edit: I may well be arguing about something completely different so never mind if I am

 

If a Psyker has a Mark of Chaos or is a Daemon of a particular Chaos God (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Chaos Daemons), that model automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers it knows.

[Sception]

You're arguing something completely different.  The question is whether the god primeris you get automatically counts towards the one god power minimum on marked CSM psykers, which would then allow you to take all of your normal powers from the rulebook.

 

The strongest argument so far is 'no, it doesn't, because you don't ROLL for it'.

[Morollan]

You still only currently generate in Sanctic/Malefic and the powers that your Codex says you get to generate from. For example (using C:SM), a Space Marine Librarian states that he can generate from Biomancy, Telekinesis, Pyromancy and Telepathy. Tigurius, on the other hand, states he can do all of the those and Divination.

 

Technically, Chaos had some form of access to divination via the randomly generated powers of the Scrolls of Magnus.

 

If you have a sixth edition codex, it states what powers you may generate from at the moment. Until an Errata/FAQ comes out, that's all anyone has. (I'd love for my normal Ultramarines Librarians to generate from Divination as well, as that's what my chart says they can take from as well.

 

Codex: Inquisition can also only do Divination, Pyromancy and Telekinesis, but the quick reference chart says that they can do everything. I'm assuming it's the same for Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Space Marines at the moment.

 

Nobody seems to have acknowledged this and I see at least some people maintaining that CSM can roll divination powers now but I don't really see how. The codex says what disciplines you have access to and the FAQ (and rulebook) added in Malefic Daemonology but Codex still > Rulebook so you still don't have Divination unless the codex entry says you do. And I don't see any units in Codex CSM with Divination listed.

[Sception]

We thought it would be possible based on the psychic summary card, but that card pack is not a rule set. The rulebook, codex, and faq are rule sets, and none of them give us divination.

 

The card pack was apparantly referring to the possibility of access via one item in one supplement, which is, frankly, just a dumb way to do things - and even then the scrolls of magnus give us potential access to telekinesis, and that wasn't checked.

 

But whatever. Point is, no divination, which remains both dumb and frustratingly counter to the narrative. Much as the crimson slaughter supplement mentions heavy use of drop pods - which don't exist in the game - the black legion supplement mentions heavy use of divination, again unavailable. I thought 6e and 7e were supposed to be about forging the narrative, but again and again the rules seem to stand stubbornly in the way of the narrative for our faction.

[totgeboren]

I played a game today, using my new lvl 3 Slaanesh Sorcerer with Balestar. I also used a lvl 3 Malefic Tzeentch Daemon Prince for summoning, and boy do summoning eat up your warp charge!

I thought the Sorcerer would be awesome buffing my Noise Marines and debuffing enemies, but Prescience is nerfed pretty bad.

When it takes 2 warp charge it's seldom worth it, even with our reroll casters. Just spamming lvl 1 spells and saving the rest for one big summoning is a much better idea. I don't think I will be using that Divination artifact any more. The buffs/debuffs from Biomancy look much more tempting, or from Telepathy. Sure, there are some powerful Divination powers, but Prescience is not their best one any more. Also paying 10 extra points to lose your psyker DtW bonus is not worth it, especially if you are lvl 3. That can make a huge difference!

 

Still that was only a single game, but if you want to run a Malefic Summoner, you wont have warp charge enough for Prescience, at least if you want to be able to cast anything else than those two powers.

[Sception]

Div's only available to the slaughter, and thy're much better off with malefic thanks to prophet of the voices, yeah. Divination isn't as good as it was, and it never was as good for us as it was for some other factions, so it doesn't hurt as much mechanically that we don't get it. Thematically, though, it's just painful. Especially for thousand sons, or black legion, or, in particular, ahriman.