Sedekiel Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 ...must roll at least one, and may roll up to half... "Immediately after generating a pp, a Psyker can always choose to substitute the p generated for the discipline's Pp"... So with a Nurgle CSM Prince 3lvl the first thing you do would be to roll on the Nurgle table because you "have to" and exchange any roll made with the primaris. After that Chaos Psychic Focus takes effect: "If a Psyker has a mark of Chaos or is a Daemon prince of a particular chaos God, that model automatically knows the Pp of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, IN ADDITION to any other p's it knows." so you are free to roll your other 3 powers away on other disciplines.... Rule Lawyering at it's finest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 ...must roll at least one, and may roll up to half... "Immediately after generating a pp, a Psyker can always choose to substitute the p generated for the discipline's Pp"... So with a Nurgle CSM Prince 3lvl the first thing you do would be to roll on the Nurgle table because you "have to" and exchange any roll made with the primaris. After that Chaos Psychic Focus takes effect: "If a Psyker has a mark of Chaos or is a Daemon prince of a particular chaos God, that model automatically knows the Pp of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, IN ADDITION to any other p's it knows." so you are free to roll your other 3 powers away on other disciplines.... Rule Lawyering at it's finest... I actually don't think that works because of the next text in bold. "Note that this means if a Psyker has chosen all of his powers from the same psychic discipline to gain Psychic Focus, he will already know that discipline's primaris power and so cannot substitute any of his randomly generated powers." - rulebook p.22 This tells me the primaris is determined before the dice start to roll, how else could you know if you are allowed to exchange your roll for the primaris? If we take one more look at the Psychic Focus rules we see that the model knows the primaris of their god in addition to any other powers it knows, and as said for that to make sense this must be the first thing thing that happens, before powers are generated for the bold test above to even be applicable. And in the CSM codex it says they have to make at least one roll on their god table, which they then cannot exchange because of the psychic focus rules in the rulebook. To be honest, we CSM definitely have the best psykers in the game hands down because of spell familiars and daemons have so many warp charge it's just silly. A hidden portalgyph and you have one extra squad of psykers per turn, for free! Doesn't even cost a warp charge! I don't think we really need to rule lawyer for advantages when it comes to the psychic phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 it does suck though that you are forced to get min. 2 god powers, effectively negating the discipline choice of lvl1 sorcs, because of semantics, especially for thousand sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 it does suck though that you are forced to get min. 2 god powers, effectively negating the discipline choice of lvl1 sorcs, because of semantics, especially for thousand sons. Agreed, but that's nothing new to 7th edition. The aligned power restriction was always a stupid, terrible, ham-fisted rule, that mostly amounted to Kelly trying to force you to play a certain way when he couldn't write the rules to make you want to play that way in the first place, same as Champions of Chaos. One of many things that makes playing CSMs feel like you're playing against your own codex as much as playing against your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/TUCAn8HagoI/AAAAAAAAJpc/JCVETO469fY/s1600/philkelly-zombie.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Agreed, but that's nothing new to 7th edition. The aligned power restriction was always a stupid, terrible, ham-fisted rule, that mostly amounted to Kelly trying to force you to play a certain way when he couldn't write the rules to make you want to play that way in the first place, same as Champions of Chaos. One of many things that makes playing CSMs feel like you're playing against your own codex as much as playing against your opponent. You know it wouldn't have been bad , if he made us actualy want to play with chaos powers , like you know he did with his eldar and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I know I bring this up a lot, but I still love his work on Vamp Counts. Their magic lore is fluffy, fun, and works, even while coming in shy of the more broken spells in the core lores. While you are required to take at least one vamp lore caster, you actually want to do so, so it doesn't feel burdensome, and your remaining casters are free to choose from other lores, yet often you'll want to take one or two backup vamps casters anyway. It's a very different situation from the chaos disciplines and restrictions, which makes it all the more frustrating when you know the author could have done so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedekiel Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I actually don't think that works because of the next text in bold. "Note that this means if a Psyker has chosen all of his powers from the same psychic discipline to gain Psychic Focus, he will already know that discipline's primaris power and so cannot substitute any of his randomly generated powers." - rulebook p.22 This tells me the primaris is determined before the dice start to roll, how else could you know if you are allowed to exchange your roll for the primaris? If we take one more look at the Psychic Focus rules we see that the model knows the primaris of their god in addition to any other powers it knows, and as said for that to make sense this must be the first thing thing that happens, before powers are generated for the bold test above to even be applicable. And in the CSM codex it says they have to make at least one roll on their god table, which they then cannot exchange because of the psychic focus rules in the rulebook. Since we are talking about A Nurgle Daemon Prince and not a generic Chaos Sorcerer you have nothing to do with the Psychic focus but with the Chaos Psychic focus... And I think that the Chaos Psychic focus is quite clear by saying "In addition to any other powers it knows" Anyway DDSOS Marked Units/HQ/Demon Princes are still the way to go...No legion for you son :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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