Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 So you want to run a 14 NDK Unbound army at 1850, but are worried that everyone won't allow Unbound lists becuase they are broken. No fear. Just play a Battle Forged list like we all used to! There is no limit to the number of seperate FoC that can make up your Battle Forged army. I'll let that sink in for a minute. So, we go back to MSU. FoC1 HQ: Coteaz (100) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Total: 514 FoC2 HQ: Inquisitor (25) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Total: 439 FoC3 HQ: Inquisitor (25) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Total: 439 FoC4 HQ: Inquisitor (25) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Troop: Warrior x3 (12) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Heavy: NDK (130) Total: 439 Overall Total: 1831 For 12 NDK Oh and you're Battle Forged, and get super Scoring Troops (and your NDK score by default anyway). So, Unbound? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, I just wish you happen to have opponents that are able to show some wisdom. Really, those "OMG, suddenly everyone will spends 32 587$ to have 12 Riptides or 12 NDK or 12 Knights so 40k sucks" comments are getting tiresome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3696082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 I wanted to highlight it wasn't just a '/sigh unbound' issue. Unbound isn't the problem. The core ruleset is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3696095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Nevermind the ruleset. If the ruleset allows multiple min/max FOC and your opponent uses that as you described above, he is not a worthwhile opponent. For all the "40k is a competitive game", if a player is more interested in winning than in competing (ie he's an egomaniac that likes to curbstomp people with stupid lists rather than someone who like the challenge of playing with a balanced list), he's just not worthy of your time. Tournements are something else altogether. GW doesn't give a damn about tournements. Instead of making rigid rules that casual players can houserule, they are making open rules for casual player and tournement can houserule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3696105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Where do you draw the line Boreas? Are two seperate FoC ok, but 4 aren't? Are 6 NDK ok? Is anyone using MSU not worth the time playing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3696118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 This is why the more concrete the rumours about 7th become the more convinced I am to set up a group to write a better set of rules and codexes from the ground up. Each new edition essentially being a patch job on the last has become to unwieldy and broken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3696147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I wanted to highlight it wasn't just a '/sigh unbound' issue. Unbound isn't the problem. The core ruleset is. They're both fine. They can't legislate for the company you keep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle captain corpus Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Sorry guys but I'm getting a little lost here with all the abbreviations..... :( BCC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolus Rex Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I wanted to highlight it wasn't just a '/sigh unbound' issue. Unbound isn't the problem. The core ruleset is. The problem is not the ruleset, but the mindset that accompanies the creation of a list like the one you posted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 What mindset is that? How can you judge? You don't like the fluff about my Paladin Brotherhood that have all been trained in the use of a DreadKnights, as they're the only 10 Grey Knights who can stop the ominous Daemon Lord M'aat W'yrd. A mission of certain death, where none are likely to survive. And the chapter has gifted them with the most potent weapons in their arsenal to ensure their success. As sanctions by the divinations of the holy Emperors Tarrot. Including covering them in the Blood of an entire Chapter of Sisters of Battle. And you don't like my fluff? Who are you to judge it? My Unbound list of 10 NDK is *very* Fluffy. What's the fluff on your Battle Forged Taudar list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think we can all agree that in our casual weekend/weekly game groups, we'll survive 7th through house rules and generally not being lame to one another. If you get 'that guy' in your group, either encourage him to change/tone it down, or be forced to find new opponents. (shrug) Nothing you can do about it otherwise. Tournaments are a whole other story. I have no idea what organisers are gonna do now. GW has literally kicked any and all sanity out the window, and is actively courting the 'more money than sense' crowd who already make Apoc and any other variant 40k impossible to balance. Expect to see a whole lot of comp coming back, and just when the community was starting to push back against it too... At bare minimum, I'd expect to see; - All 40k variants banned (or restricted to hand-holding 'narrative' sideshows, as Apoc currently is) - Unbound lists banned - Restriction of one Allied detachment per army, including Inquisition and other such +1 Allies (like LotD etc) - Formations banned - Come The Apocalyse alliances banned More iffy is the question of the new psychic tables. Sanctic is pretty meh, I don't think most people will worry about it. Daemonology however is flat-out insane, especially with Daemons themselves. I think tourney organisers are either gonna ban it entirely (as it breaks multiple game rules, distorts the game in favour of armies with cheap spammable psykers, and gives you units for free in a game nominally balanced by point limits), or they'll allow one psyker per army access to it, with all others having to pick from whatever other disciplines they can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Unbound lists banned Why bother? You can take 10 seperate FoC as a Battle Forged army anyway. The removal of the limit on the number of FoC you can bring was, well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3697672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolus Rex Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 What mindset is that? How can you judge? You don't like the fluff about my Paladin Brotherhood that have all been trained in the use of a DreadKnights, as they're the only 10 Grey Knights who can stop the ominous Daemon Lord M'aat W'yrd. A mission of certain death, where none are likely to survive. And the chapter has gifted them with the most potent weapons in their arsenal to ensure their success. As sanctions by the divinations of the holy Emperors Tarrot. Including covering them in the Blood of an entire Chapter of Sisters of Battle. And you don't like my fluff? Who are you to judge it? My Unbound list of 10 NDK is *very* Fluffy. What's the fluff on your Battle Forged Taudar list? Your Paladin brotherhood should add another squad of 'squires' so each Paladin has a unit of three terribly under equipped dudes to tend to their needs. I'm assuming that's the fluff based origin of the warrior squads, right? And each of these brotherhoods undoubtedly needs an Inquisitor to stand watch over them, lest they exhibit signs of heresy. If someone wants to make and run a list like that, all the more power to them. If modelling and painting a whole bunch of the identical units is truly what makes someone happy, then sure, who am I to judge? However if (when) that person loses interest in that army when the next codex or FAQ rolls around, then evidently they weren't that personally invested in the idea, brotherhood or no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3698822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Been Playing GK since 4th Edition and the Daemonhunter Codex. Never lost interest in them. Even though with the DH Dex I lost just about every game... (Those Inquisitors / Henchmen are 'innocent' bystanders who just happened to be in the same place the Daemon Lord M'aat W'yrd has been predicted to appear in. Or they're the remnants of the souls sacrificed to make said Daemon Lord appear. Whatever floats your fluff boat most.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291382-so-unbound-is-broken-and-will-be-banned-lets-look-at-bf/#findComment-3698979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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