Hitting my drakes.........with nerf bats.

[GreyCrow]

I've been a Chaos player since 4th Ed, so I share the frustrations of every other player at the way Chaos Marines have been treated since 2007.

Having said that, I'm finding this discussion a little bit humourous, in an ironic way:

- most Chaos Players, 2012: "Bah! Our Codex is too reliant on running Heldrakes to otherwise be effective!"

- most Chaos Players, 2014: "Bah! This FAQ makes our Heldrakes less effective!"

I guess because I never based my army around multiple Heldrakes I can find this situation more amusing than most of us on here...

That's the attitude !

You can build an army around 1 unit type carring the rest of your forces, but expect its performance to change over time. Seriously, even with only 45° angle and the torrent rule, you can still pretty much flame whatever you want with good positionning.

Okay, you won't be abe to both open up a transport and flame its content with a single unit (at least, I thought it was like that with Vector Strike, but I may be mislead), but the Chaos Codex has got nasty anti-tank elswhere that can pop transports up just fine. Obliterators come to mind, DPs, biker melta squads, Helbrutes, Mutilators, Land Raiders, Vindicators, Predators, Defilers, Havocs, Forgefiends & Maulerfiends.

Much like the Space Marines Codex, Chaos Space Marines are an army that relies on cooperation between units to get the job right. Let's leave the deathstar business to the flithy xenos, and let us pound them to ground with strong army build and great tactics.

Tournaments statistics mattered in 6th edition. 7th edition is going to change the meta big time, even with the small changes. New Jink is a massive blow to Eldar tanks because Scatter Lasers aren't so scary when they Snap Shoot. Riptides can be tarpitted to death with the nerf to Smash.

[battle captain corpus]

Of course -Max-:

 

FAO: Design Studio

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Nottingham

United Kingdom

NG7 2WS

 

I will stress now, this address is freely available on the t'interweb, you just Google it :) I'm not some form of ninja batman GW insider.....anymore anyway ;)

 

BCC

[Clone]

I've been a Chaos player since 4th Ed, so I share the frustrations of every other player at the way Chaos Marines have been treated since 2007.

Having said that, I'm finding this discussion a little bit humourous, in an ironic way:

- most Chaos Players, 2012: "Bah! Our Codex is too reliant on running Heldrakes to otherwise be effective!"

- most Chaos Players, 2014: "Bah! This FAQ makes our Heldrakes less effective!"

I guess because I never based my army around multiple Heldrakes I can find this situation more amusing than most of us on here...

That's the attitude !

You can build an army around 1 unit type carring the rest of your forces, but expect its performance to change over time. Seriously, even with only 45° angle and the torrent rule, you can still pretty much flame whatever you want with good positionning.

Okay, you won't be abe to both open up a transport and flame its content with a single unit (at least, I thought it was like that with Vector Strike, but I may be mislead), but the Chaos Codex has got nasty anti-tank elswhere that can pop transports up just fine. Obliterators come to mind, DPs, biker melta squads, Helbrutes, Mutilators, Land Raiders, Vindicators, Predators, Defilers, Havocs, Forgefiends & Maulerfiends.

Much like the Space Marines Codex, Chaos Space Marines are an army that relies on cooperation between units to get the job right. Let's leave the deathstar business to the flithy xenos, and let us pound them to ground with strong army build and great tactics.

Tournaments statistics mattered in 6th edition. 7th edition is going to change the meta big time, even with the small changes. New Jink is a massive blow to Eldar tanks because Scatter Lasers aren't so scary when they Snap Shoot. Riptides can be tarpitted to death with the nerf to Smash.

+1

I've always seen heldrakes as a bonus unit, not really relying on it to carry my army, and I've won my fair share of battles with various lists including units that the Internet would recoil in terror and decry as useless (warp talons, possessed, defilers).

People seem to be taking far too much from this heldrake nerf as if it somehow has made our codex unplayable. I've had my down times with chaos but they tend to stem from fluff, e.g. Lack of Daemon Knights and Legion rules.

Maybe the chaos community likes to complain a bit too much sometimes. I still have fun playing chaos, when it gets to the point where that's not the case I'll play tau for a while (which haven't seen use for well over a year cos I love chaos so much).

[GreyCrow]

Away from the warming love of the Emperor and His protection, the mind of heretics goes adrift, twisted by the enslaving entities of the Warp !

 

I can understand the rage about the Heldrake, it was very good and a poster boy for Chaos in 6th edition, and it's normal to complain when something you really invested emotionally in gets less useful, even in the smallest extent.

 

But the Chaos Codex is far from being unplayable. Compared to Space Marines, Chaos Characters, both unique and regular with upgrades are awesome ! As long as the list is built reasonably along each units' natural strength and weaknesses, and factors in a healthy amount of Anti Tank/MC, Anti Infantry and Anti Air, it should be fine.

 

EDIT : I actually want to get into building a Chaos army for fun. I'll try to make a few lists tonight to see how they could perform :)

[Sception]

But the Chaos Codex is far from being unplayable. Compared to Space Marines, Chaos Characters, both unique and regular with upgrades are awesome!

This is not a statement that meshes with my personal experience. My generic HQs essentially auto-lose challenges with their loyalist counterparts, and don't generally bring much outside of melee ability.

 

Our sorcerers have familiars at least, so that's something.

[Clone]

 

But the Chaos Codex is far from being unplayable. Compared to Space Marines, Chaos Characters, both unique and regular with upgrades are awesome!

This is not a statement that meshes with my personal experience. My generic HQs essentially auto-lose challenges with their loyalist counterparts, and don't generally bring much outside of melee ability.

 

Our sorcerers have familiars at least, so that's something.

Auto lose sounds a bit much. I've had lords go up against grand masters and chapter masters in challenges and win.

[Sception]

I'm used to such being EW, 3++ by default, and yeah, auto lose is how I'd characterize my own lords' experiences with them in challenges. I certainly wouldn't call melee ICs in general a strength of the faction. Princes and sorcerers are nice, admittedly. But too many pivotal dueling options were eaten by the boon table for me to rate lords or the like that highly.

[Clone]

I'm used to such being EW, 3++ by default, and yeah, auto lose is how I'd characterize my own lords' experiences with them in challenges. I certainly wouldn't call melee ICs in general a strength of the faction. Princes and sorcerers are nice, admittedly. But too many pivotal dueling options were eaten by the boon table for me to rate lords or the like that highly.

Fair enough on 3++ EW characters but that particular build is nasty whoever its up against to be fair.

[Ishagu]

Take Abaddon and you can't go wrong. He's only marginally more expensive than the characters who sport a 3++ EW in the Vanilla Space Marine Codex.

[totgeboren]

If we really really feel like it, we can have a 3++ T5 Lord on jetbike/disc of Tzeentch with Powerfist and LC (giving him 5 attacks base), and with The Skull of Ker'ngar giving Eternal Warrior and Adamatium will, not to mention a Gift that could give him something really useful. Sure that's well over 200 pts but that Space Marine Chapter Master on bike with Shield Eternal and Thunder hammer clocks in at around 250 pts so it's not really unreasonable. Also he has hatred of Loyalists which could tip the balance right there.

 

I mean, we can make pretty vicious killers ourself, and this is not even going into Daemon Princes who can bring on the pain like nobodys business. If you would get both Iron Arm and Warp Speed on a biomancy Daemon Prince with a Daemon Weapon, you could get up to 15 attacks on the charge with a WS, I and S9, Ap2 and T8. :p

And getting close is no problem, since Daemons of Nurgle get Shrouded and flying princes get jink even if they don't swoop, so that's a 2+ cover save jumping Daemon Prince heading your way.

[incinerator950]

I apologise for excessive venting.

[minigun762]

Topic is Heldrakes, not Chaos HQ loadouts.

[Ishagu]

I should point out that the baleflamer kept the Torrent rule.

 

Even though you can only fire ahead and can't place the narrow end at some impossible position, you can still aim the template left and right so it's still borderline op.

The cheesy as hell rhino Pop followed by 10 dead Marines won't happen anymore, but on the bonus side you now have to actually think on how you're going to use the Drake so your brain cells won't be dying from boredom when playing one.

 

Drop one from your list and add 2 more Nurgle Obliterators and some cultists to harass your enemies with ;-)

[Sception]

You still have to select a unit within the field of vision as the target to fire at.  You do have freedom to place the template over models in that unit that are not in the firing arc, yes, but I'd hardly call that OP.

[MaliGn]

Couldn't the heldrake vector strike backwards and flame forwards now instead of the other way around?