Imperial Guard in 7ed

[Frater Cornelius]

Welcome back everyone, I hope you all survived the crash very well. I would hereby like to give my thanks to Brother Argos and Kurgan

(and whoever else was involved) for reacting quickly and keeping us up and running.

Now that that's out of the way, let's talk murder! I had a quick glance through the new rule book and here is my opinion on it.

Note that I will mainly talk about Mech style guard, since this is what I play. Most changes happened there anyway. I will still try

to comment on blobs seeing as they profited from the new edition.

Those are by all means not all the changes. Granted, there were very few compared to the 6ed and we are essentially playing 6.5ed.

These are merely the most dominant ones.

Please note that this is all opinion based.

New Pen Chart

Let's talk about the big change: Vehicles only explode on a 7+. This is HUGE for us. Way more of a buff than a nerf. Let me elaborate:

Our av 11 and 12 vehicles are darn cheap so they will not attract as much lascannon and melta fire. Seeing as they are transports, they

are only in danger of being glanced to death with no chance of exploding from s5-8 ap3+ shooting. Explosions can really hurt our guys

with 4+ and 5+ saves. Since explosions are so much more unlikely to happen, thus we can play our transports more aggressively. This is

the reason why I put my melta veterans into Tauroxes now.

Our AV14 goodness will eat a lot more lascannon fire. A lascannon needs 2 consecutive rolls of 6 to instantly kill a LR, not very likely.

Being glanced to death from the front is equally unlikely. Since keeping away meltas (outside of deep strikes) should not be a huge issue

for our volumes of fire. This also goes for our super- heavies like Baneblade variants and the Knight, Chain Reactions

is this much more unlikely to happen, so Techpriests will be able to keep them up very nicely.

Verdict: our transports are less likely to kill our own troops while our big dudes are this much more unlikely to die, the LR will be dreaded

by everyone.. even more than before.

Let us look at the other side, enemy vehicles are harder to kill as well... well, not really. Let us see how IG deals with AV.

AV10-12 is usually being glanced to death by the abundance of s6-7 shooting we can bring with our infantry and transports,

thus nothing changes.

Against AV13 and 14 we might have a bit of a harder time. But speaking from the perspective of armoured assault, I'd say we

still have the upper hand. Easy access to Divination makes our Vanquisher still deadly against higher AV, cheap fast melta vets

in transports are still one of the top vehicle killers in the game along with s10 ap2 ordnance, Vanquishers, s10 ap1 and Gauss.

Then there is also Pask with 20 rending shots and pseudo-tank hunter being able to glance a Land Raider to death in 1 shooting phase.

Lastly, our LR are being able to take MM sponsons and hull-mounted LC.

Verdict: low AV enemy vehicles are still just as easy. Higher AV is a bit harder to blow up but no really big changes to your typical

IG player.

Vehicles in Melee

All Vehicles (unless it is a Walker or Chariot) are WS1 in melee, regardless or whether it moved. Automatic hits only happen when it is immobilized (being WS0). This makes it a bit harder to pop our tanks with krak grenades. Seeing as they can not explode from them, you need around 5-6 Marines to pop a Chimera in melee. I'm all for that

Allies

One thing to note is that ALL Forces of the Imperium are Battle Brothers. Yes, that also means Grey Knights. I feel that it opens

a few interesting build with a Terminator Star/that guy who deep strikes turn 1 or having a very tough Character leading a blob

while getting cheap Divination from your own guys and/or Inquisitors.

Another allies thing that indirectly affects us is that Tau are no longer BB with SM and Eldar (being desperate and convenience respectively),

thus putting Taudar and Tigurius cheese to an end, helping to secure the dominance of our AV14 onslaught.

There is nothing else... EXCEPT THAT BB CAN EMBARK ON FRIENDLY VEHICLES!!! and are affected by 'friendly' rules like

reserve rolls, repairs and so on. Did I mention that they can EMBARK ON FRIENDLY VEHILCES?!! Seriously, this is soooo big.

Inquisition allies, allied Psykers and so on can savely sit inside our Chimeras and Flyers while our ICs like Yarrik can hitch hike drop-pods

and the likes. Or hell, while the 5ed SW codex is still is use, put Rune Priests in your Transports and make use of the best anti psyker

bubble in the game.

Then they also allow BB to be affected by Warlord Traits such as outflanking and stuff. Very good!

Verdict: very nice changes to our battle brothers and oh boy does it put a wrench in the enemy xenos formations.

Psychic Stuff

The Psychic Phase is interesting. Given how the amount of Warp Charges you gain from your psykers is very important for

stopping enemy psychic shenanigans, it is important to bring a lot of cheap Charges. We can get 4 charges + d6 for 150 points,

one of the cheapest in the game. Seeing how Prescience is still the primary power, this makes 2 lvl2 Primaris psykers very

attractive for every army. Sure, it costs 2 charges now but hell, you only need 1 lvl1 psyker with the d6 bonus every turn to

be able to cast it.

But still, psykers can only use witchfire powers if the transport has a firing point and can manifest no other kind of powers.

Verdict: bringing Primaris Psykers is very beneficial to us outside of rolling on Divination, but makes them slightly less useful in

mech lists seeing how they have no place to go a be useful if you have no foot units. So it largely depends if you value psychic

defense over pure offense in mech lists. Auto-include in foot armies.

Daemonology

Oh boy, against armies with little to no psychic defense by means of effects or massive amount of warp charges this will be a game

changer. Able to summon waves upon waves of troops or fast attack units like khrone hounds is just silly. While not necessarily a

meta changer since we can still deny the witch without any psykers, it will still make an impact with some lucky rolls on the table.

Verdict: this can benefit us nicely given our solid access to warp charges but beware, the enemy might drown you in daemons. Use

firepower wisely. Way less useful against your typical Eldar army, they have enough charges to deny you to hell.

I will definitely try it at some point.

Jink

Jink was nerfed, affecting jet bikes and those dreaded Wave Serpents. It functions now like the flyer jink rule. In addition to our

ignore cover order, this makes the Serpent Spam way easier to take. Both the flyer Evade and Jetbike/Skimmer Jink offers a 4+

save, which is better than before, but seeing how they can only fire snap shots next turn, this puts them way more behind in fire

power to our tanks.

This also affects bikes, so White Scar and Ravenwing took a hit right there.

Verdict: Buff to flyer survivabilit, nerf to skimmer and bikes.

Challenges

Excess wounds made in a challenge spill over to the squad.. Now this is a big hit to blob tarpit against DP and the likes of Abaddon.

However, mech vets take an even bigger hit since they do not have the model count to off-set the wounds and lose their ability to

hold the enemy in place for potentially a round longer. Avoid beefcake melee chars. This is one of the vew things we can not make

an advantage of seeing as we do not have any characters with significant punch to make it count. Even for Straken and Yarrik this

will be too situational.

Verdict: tarpit against melee powerhouse chars took a hit, against non-chars it is all the same.

Intercept

Talking about flyers, Interceptor does not allow to shoot at ground targets anymore. This indirectly buffs out Hydra. It is dirt

cheap and there are very few alternatives. Sabre Defense Platform loses it's ability to shoot at ground targets. Add to that the

Jink changes, that makes the Hydra a very attractive choice when you are dealing with skimmer heavy armies like Eldar, Tau

and DE.

This also makes the Aegis Quad Gun less attractive.

Verdict: indirect buff to Hydra, nerf to SDP and nerf to Quad Gun. In my opinion, this makes volume of fire with Prescience and

other flyers the best way of dealing with other flyers. Dedicated AA simply lacks versatility.

FMC

Boy did they take a hit. I might even suggest that this is the end of Flying Circus as we know it. FMC can not charge the same

turn they change flight modes. In addition to that, they only make a grounding check when they suffer a wound as opposed

to a hit. Being grounded is the only way that a FMC will be able to charge right after coming down.

Verdict: does not affect us seeing as we could force a lot of checks in the past, but prepare to see a lot less melee prices around.

Ordnance

No changes there. Kind of a bummer, this makes the LRBT still a bit expensive, especially how s8 ap3 ordnance shot is that

much worse against tanks. The Demolisher is alright, but not my cup of tea. I'll leave judgement to you.

FOC

The change to the FoC with battle- forged vs unbound benefits us indiectly. Many armies will be unbound, I see that definitely coming. We have some of the best

troops in the game with Platoons and Veterans, thus we can play BF without many downsides, thus we can gain the bonuses

from playing BF army. I like this change a lot.

On the other hand we can now field full tank armies for a lot of fun, though I still see BF armies to be

superior in a competitive environment, at least for IG.

Verdict: Open up more army options while still indirectly buffing us due to our strong troop choices. Also our Leman Russ can score, try move that

Final Verdict?

http://geeknation.com/geek/wp-content/uploads/Arnold-Face.jpg

That is the face of the enemies of Mankind. Solid AV14 spam has become even more threatening while our light transports

have become even more useful. Hell, I said it a billion times and I'll say it again: I'll be using Tauroxes as

part of my main army.

There is little that truly affects us in a negative way (like the Challenge thing). Most of the 'negative' things are issues that

were there before 7ed came along, like Ordnance.

And.. I am going to say it: the era of Taudar and the age of xeno dominance is coming to an end. With the Allies changes

and all, Codex: Astra Militarum will be defining the future meta and be the benchmark for armoured and horde armies.

So, basically very little is going to change for most IG armies.

You are welcome to add your own thoughts to complete the list

I might add a post on how the enemy armies will change after some test games and feedback from other players.

For the Emperium of Man! Through the Warp and far away!

[WarriorFish]

A good write up Immer, it sounds much like as we expected which is predominately good news. I shall ruminate on these changes, though it won't change what I'm doing that much I don't think. Hull Points still pop tanks quickly, challenges are for other armies and tanks are cool - so business as usual for the 144th I expect ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

A good write up Immer, it sounds much like as we expected which is predominately good news. I shall ruminate on these changes, though it won't change what I'm doing that much I don't think. Hull Points still pop tanks quickly, challenges are for other armies and tanks are cool - so business as usual for the 144th I expect

Isn't that the beauty of AV14? You can't glance it reliably with most guns without getting close.

Another change is that all vehicles are being hit on 3s (unless walker or Chariots), meaning that it ill take at least 5 krak grenades to wreck a Chimera and Leman Russ. Adding it up top.

[Commissar Uri]

Okies my question is this the end of traitor gaurd? IG can't allay with chaos or is there something in the codex that allows them to use our hollowed units?

[Frater Cornelius]

Not in battle-forged lists. I am not clear on whether the allied chart still plays a role in unbound armies. Other than that, only come the apocalypse.

 

Unless unbound actually allows come the apocalypse allies, I recommend you check out Crimson Slaughter list from FW. It mostly covers the IG with some nice Chaos-y elements ;)

[incinerator950]

You can take CtA armies as allies, but the deployment lines start at a distance and then close for a length.  To my understanding, I don't have the rules nor will I until GW decides to make cheaper, single copies of the rules rather than all sets. 

Your dex is fine, it was made with 7th in mind. 

[Frater Cornelius]

You can take CtA armies as allies, but the deployment lines start at a distance and then close for a length.  To my understanding, I don't have the rules nor will I until GW decides to make cheaper, single copies of the rules rather than all sets. 

 

Your dex is fine, it was made with 7th in mind. 

 

Well, for that you will need to wait for the next 'starter set' or the Dark Vengeance update. Until then you can always use your opponents book^^

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Here's a little tidbit I picked up on reading through the rules today that no one's noticed (only a rough rider lover like me would):

 

Cavalry now have the Fleet and Hammer of Wrath special rules. It's a minor buff to be sure, but you now get one auto-hit per rough rider on the turn you charged at Str 3 Ap -

 

I really don't think Daemonology is so much of a much though. You need three rolls of 4+ to pull the summoning "spell" off, and any doubles = a peril. So you've got to roll a lot of dice to have any assurance the spell will work, but then that greatly increases the chances of perils. And if your enemy throws all his deny the witch dice at it, if you only rolled the bare minimum three 4s to cast, he only needs one 6 to undo that. So I don't see it as game breaking by any means, although in a battle here-and-there good rolling could make a big difference.

[hendrik]

one of the biggest changes might be the auto allowance of superheavies. the imperial guard have the most superheavies of any faction, so i can see these influencing a lot of lists. heck, i've converted up a stormblade which i'll hopefully use more often then before (owned a magnetised shadowsword for over 3 games, played 2 games with it...

[Frater Cornelius]

Here's a little tidbit I picked up on reading through the rules today that no one's noticed (only a rough rider lover like me would):

 

Cavalry now have the Fleet and Hammer of Wrath special rules. It's a minor buff to be sure, but you now get one auto-hit per rough rider on the turn you charged at Str 3 Ap -

 

I really don't think Daemonology is so much of a much though. You need three rolls of 4+ to pull the summoning "spell" off, and any doubles = a peril. So you've got to roll a lot of dice to have any assurance the spell will work, but then that greatly increases the chances of perils. And if your enemy throws all his deny the witch dice at it, if you only rolled the bare minimum three 4s to cast, he only needs one 6 to undo that. So I don't see it as game breaking by any means, although in a battle here-and-there good rolling could make a big difference.

 

I believe Cav had those rules in 6ed as well. Having played SW in 5ed and 6ed I do not remember it being different.

As for the Demo thing, hear me out: most armies will be able to have an average of 8 warp charges every turn. If you have rolled the 5 or 6 on the table (with 4 rolls, definitely doable), you can bait enemy denials. Use 1-2 charge(s) each on 2 psykers to use the primaris power and summon daemons and then use 5-6 charges to use the 5 or 6. The enemy either forgoes denying the first bunch, you will have troops or FA daemons, if he did not, chances are you have Juggernauts and FMC. Sure, it is by no means game breaking and fairly risky but lil' tricks like that can really result in disastrous effects.

[march10k]

 

 A lascannon, after it hits, needs 2 consecutive rolls of 6 to instantly kill a LR, not very likely. 

 

 

 

fixed that for you ;)  Even more reason to rejoice, it's not a 1/36 chance, it's worse than that...usually, it'll be 1/72 or 1/54.  I sincerely hope that people take more lascannons, they cost a lot, and our tanks will still die to either melta or hull points, not to pen sixes off of AP2 shooting!

 

I missed the part where BB can ride in our transports...OMG, that's insane.  Now I can put a primaris psycher into each of the three line squads of my C:MT air cav detachment...sure, they get twinlinked the turn they arrive, but three out of six powers are super awesome for the melta stormtroopers, another one is really nice for the plasma-spamming command squad,  and prescience is a freebie...if I get a crummy power from one of them, maybe I just deploy that psycher with my guns and use his prescience.

 

What I really love about IG in 7th is that there is no end to the viable ways to play.  I already have a shadowsword-based tank list, a vanilla tank list, a scoring chimera spam list, the IG-as-primary Air Assault Detachment list, a forward sentries/sentinel spam list...all of them brutal, and all of them battle-forged.  I've played two of them under 6th edition rules since the new codex dropped, and I monkey-stomped both times, with no expectation but an improvement in 7th.  Oh, and in one game, I forgot to even get 200 points of sentinels out of the case!  1650 vs 1850, and it wasn't even a contest against nidzila (pasquisher and squadron were stripping 3-4 wounds per turn from MCs).

 

I'm thinking of one more variant.  I want to try allying a santic-casting L3 GK librarian with 2-4 paladins as a bodyguard.  Imagine him jumping with gate of eternity, then dropping what amounts to a vortex grenade every turn?  If that doesn't keep the enemy too busy to assault my lines, nothing will!  And if daemons actually do show up? Dropping their invul by a point with the primaris power will be oh so sweet. (highly situational).  Also, with L3 and a PH, he'll be contesting most enemy powers on 4+, even when he's not the target (assuming I keep him near my lines because I didn't get gate+vortex)

[march10k]

Okies my question is this the end of traitor gaurd? IG can't allay with chaos or is there something in the codex that allows them to use our hollowed units?

 

 

Not in battle-forged lists.

 

Actually, I find that fitting.  Traitor guard are inherently an undisciplined mob.  They should be denied super-scoring and warlord rerolls!  That's pretty fluffy IMHO.    That or play them counts-as-cultists...

 

 

Here's a little tidbit I picked up on reading through the rules today that no one's noticed (only a rough rider lover like me would):

 

Cavalry now have the Fleet and Hammer of Wrath special rules. It's a minor buff to be sure, but you now get one auto-hit per rough rider on the turn you charged at Str 3 Ap -

 

I really don't think Daemonology is so much of a much though. You need three rolls of 4+ to pull the summoning "spell" off, and any doubles = a peril. So you've got to roll a lot of dice to have any assurance the spell will work, but then that greatly increases the chances of perils. And if your enemy throws all his deny the witch dice at it, if you only rolled the bare minimum three 4s to cast, he only needs one 6 to undo that. So I don't see it as game breaking by any means, although in a battle here-and-there good rolling could make a big difference.

 

 

 

The shoot-and-then-run rule that ratlings have and anyone else can get via an order would make rough riders a perfect melta platform...making them slightly less pitiful as assaulters (I refuse to run them with broomsticks that have sticks of dynamite strapped to the tips!) is 'meh.'

 

I think the dispel works differently.  Reread the highlighted last sentence on page 25.  You have to offset ALL of the warp charges, not just enough to bring it below casting value.  So a summoning that goes off on 3 charges requires 3, not 1, sixes to deny the witch.  If you plan on denying much, you need a psychic hood and CL3, so you can deny on 4s, otherwise assume your opponent will cast anything he wants whenever he wants.  Actually, with PHs scattered around, you'll be denying on 5+ even with ML1...and one relic-plated tank per squadron gives you 5+ denial there, too.  Denying on 5+ is pretty easy for IG with minimal investment, but you're still at an inherent disadvantage of 5+ vs 4+.

 

What would be awesome is a highly mobile ML3 psycher (ML4 is almost nonexistent) with adamantium will and a PH....a bubble of 3+ dispel most of the time...of course, only against stuff that targets you, can't deny anything that doesn't target you!!!  (in other words, forget it, you're not denying summonings!!!)

[Frater Cornelius]

A lascannon, after it hits, needs 2 consecutive rolls of 6 to instantly kill a LR, not very likely.

fixed that for you Even more reason to rejoice, it's not a 1/36 chance, it's worse than that...usually, it'll be 1/72 or 1/54. I sincerely hope that people take more lascannons, they cost a lot, and our tanks will still die to either melta or hull points, not to pen sixes off of AP2 shooting!

I missed the part where BB can ride in our transports...OMG, that's insane. Now I can put a primaris psycher into each of the three line squads of my C:MT air cav detachment...sure, they get twinlinked the turn they arrive, but three out of six powers are super awesome for the melta stormtroopers, another one is really nice for the plasma-spamming command squad, and prescience is a freebie...if I get a crummy power from one of them, maybe I just deploy that psycher with my guns and use his prescience.

What I really love about IG in 7th is that there is no end to the viable ways to play. I already have a shadowsword-based tank list, a vanilla tank list, a scoring chimera spam list, the IG-as-primary Air Assault Detachment list, a forward sentries/sentinel spam list...all of them brutal, and all of them battle-forged. I've played two of them under 6th edition rules since the new codex dropped, and I monkey-stomped both times, with no expectation but an improvement in 7th. Oh, and in one game, I forgot to even get 200 points of sentinels out of the case! 1650 vs 1850, and it wasn't even a contest against nidzila (pasquisher and squadron were stripping 3-4 wounds per turn from MCs).

I'm thinking of one more variant. I want to try allying a santic-casting L3 GK librarian with 2-4 paladins as a bodyguard. Imagine him jumping with gate of eternity, then dropping what amounts to a vortex grenade every turn? If that doesn't keep the enemy too busy to assault my lines, nothing will! And if daemons actually do show up? Dropping their invul by a point with the primaris power will be oh so sweet. (highly situational). Also, with L3 and a PH, he'll be contesting most enemy powers on 4+, even when he's not the target (assuming I keep him near my lines because I didn't get gate+vortex)

I am interested in that Sentries/Sentinel list, mind hooking me up? ;)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

march10k -- yeah, I re-read it, and you're right. Too bad. It's page 396 in the iBooks version, though, which is the one I have.

 

Daemon summoning is still 3 warp charges, though, so Immersurm's example doesn't work. If you only rolled two dice on the daemon primaris (summoning) it would do nothing because the maximum 4+ you could roll would be two, whereas you need three. So you'd have to throw 5-6 dice at the summoning spells to have a good chance at success.

[Frater Cornelius]

march10k -- yeah, I re-read it, and you're right. Too bad. It's page 396 in the iBooks version, though, which is the one I have.

 

Daemon summoning is still 3 warp charges, though, so Immersurm's example doesn't work. If you only rolled two dice on the daemon primaris (summoning) it would do nothing because the maximum 4+ you could roll would be two, whereas you need three. So you'd have to throw 5-6 dice at the summoning spells to have a good chance at success.

 

Damn, I was looking at the wrong table. I was looking at the santis powers^^ forget everything I said then, it is ok but not a game changer.

[Kierdale]

Though it never had much effect, I'll lament the loss of Pinning for Sniper weapons.

 

One big change to our artillery, specifically the manticore and deathstrike: these two cannot fire directly and so cannot target enemy within their minimum ranges (while the Basilisk can, albeit only for direct fire).

[march10k]

I did so love my direct-fire bassie in 3rd...the model is long since gone, the barrel having drooped when I left the damned thing in the car on a hot Georgia day...might have to invest in a replacement...S9AP2 pieplate ORDNANCE provides excellent antitank fire...

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

You know I completely missed the fact that cavalry had hammer of wrath in 6th edition!

[Lucien Eilam]

Not in battle-forged lists. I am not clear on whether the allied chart still plays a role in unbound armies. Other than that, only come the apocalypse.

 

Unless unbound actually allows come the apocalypse allies, I recommend you check out Crimson Slaughter list from FW. It mostly covers the IG with some nice Chaos-y elements ;)

The Allies chart is completely independent of Unbound/Battle-forged. It only describes how models from different factions work together, not which models you can take.

 

You can have a Come the Apocalypse alliance regardless of how you're selecting your army, they just won't work very well together.

[Thoqqu]

A little question regarding forge world, now that superheavies and some other shenanigans are "official" part of 40k, what is the status regarding imperial navy?

[Frater Cornelius]

FW is and will always stay FW and thus some accept it and some won't. The only super-heavies that are (mostly) accepted are the 'official' ones in Escalation. As for SH in general, they are perfectly legal now so bringing a Marauder variant is the same as bringing Sabre Defense Platform. I just say go for it and let people bitch ;)

[librisrouge]

Now that 'Through Attrition Victory' isn't a part of standard games I'm probably going to be painting up my Baneblade and making it a standard part of my lists. Flanked by a Thunderer or two and I'm fairly confident in my ability to win games and lose friends.

[WarriorFish]

Are your friends so worthless that they can be sacrificed for a victory? :lol: Well... you can probably afford to lose one or few in order to take a Baneblade :P

[Thoqqu]

So in theory I could wield 9 vultures with tl punisher cannons and pask for good measure in single foc that is battle forged?

Some vets to fill in the troop slots...

[Seahawk]

Vehicles aren't hit on a 3+. 

 

Vehicles are WS1, unless they are immobilized, at which point it's WS0. Big difference. ;)

 

 

 

Don't forget ramming! A Leman Russ now inflicts S10 hits every time it rams. S11 if you gave it a dozer blade! Crush the puny enemy vehicles and buildings under your steel treads of DOOM.

 

(it can go up to 11 because it's not a stat-line value that's normally restricted to 10)