Dark Angels: 7th Edition Winners & Losers

[Saphrael]

He makes your army have d6+3 warp charges from the get go which is overwhelming to a psykerless army, the possibility to deny enemy shenanigans on your units at 12" radius, and extra WS to units around him. Choose santic demonology and you put Ezekiel with Terminators and:

- Get banishment for free.

- WS5 terminators.

- 3 chances of gettinggate of infinity for DS twin linkined goodness

- 3 chances to get hammerhand: S6 ezekiel, s10 termies and s6 termie sgt with powersword!

-3 chances to get sanctuary. 2++ or 4++ termies!

or

3 chances to get cleansing flame. use gate of infinity, get within 9" for cleansing flame, finishe with twinlinked stoem bolters and AC/HF.

 

So I buy Sanctic as a great choice for Zeke--especially if you put him with Belial and a large squad of tactical terminators--but why does he get 3 chances of rolling powers? Codex says he gets 2 rolls + Mind Worm, is that someone overridden by the new psychic phase?

 

Apologies, I haven't gotten my hands on the 7th rulebook yet.

[Prot]

 

He makes your army have d6+3 warp charges from the get go which is overwhelming to a psykerless army, the possibility to deny enemy shenanigans on your units at 12" radius, and extra WS to units around him. Choose santic demonology and you put Ezekiel with Terminators and:

- Get banishment for free.

- WS5 terminators.

- 3 chances of gettinggate of infinity for DS twin linkined goodness

- 3 chances to get hammerhand: S6 ezekiel, s10 termies and s6 termie sgt with powersword!

-3 chances to get sanctuary. 2++ or 4++ termies!

or

3 chances to get cleansing flame. use gate of infinity, get within 9" for cleansing flame, finishe with twinlinked stoem bolters and AC/HF.

 

So I buy Sanctic as a great choice for Zeke--especially if you put him with Belial and a large squad of tactical terminators--but why does he get 3 chances of rolling powers? Codex says he gets 2 rolls + Mind Worm, is that someone overridden by the new psychic phase?

 

Apologies, I haven't gotten my hands on the 7th rulebook yet.

 

 

 

The rulebook says if you basically have an inherent power from your codex rules, it's free and doesn't take away from your rolls on the psychic discipline(s) you choose.

 

I don't know about Sanctic. Really aside from Grey Knights it's going to be really challenging to pull off anything over one warp charge without killing yourself (eventually).

 

Sanctic in Deathwing sounds great, but I'm starting to lean towards Divination for the cool bonuses there just because it's safer. I'd like to try Sanctic but with my luck I'll kill good ol' Ezekiel by turn 3. ;)

[Saphrael]

Thanks for the clarification about inherent powers Prot, appreciate that.

 

As for the dangers of harnessing Sanctic, I was really excited about it until I remembered that any double results in a PotW, not just double 6. That's such a shame, because Zeke has a 43% chance of getting the Infinity Gate power that would be so phenomenally good when coupled with Belial and Deathwing. Back to the drawing board I guess.

[durdle-durdle]

Divination, I think is best with him. He's our best chance of getting prescience off. Perfect timing and misfortune is great too. Foreboding (I think it is that let's him re roll failed saves) can let him tank shots for a squad. Even if you have something that gets through his armor, you can look out onto something on a 2+.

[Retaliation]

Could I get a page reference for the mind worm as a free power thing? I looked hard for something like that and couldn't find it :(.

 

I think sanctic is too good to pass up for a deathwing heavy army. 3 of the 6 powers are basically tailor made for terminators, while the other 3 are powerful if risky. 

[Saphrael]

Well my main (i.e. only) opponent is an ork player, so neither Misfortune nor Perfect Timing interest me greatly, especially if Faet rumours about the KFF turning into an invulnerable save are true.

[MadMek83]

 

Changes in 7th edition did that I might drop the Dark Shroud of my: to buy list but I am still going to get 2nd box of Black Knights. I just have to figure out best way to use them. It will be fun. Other than that, I'll see when I get my own book, how to adjust my Dark Angels.

 

Well my argument for keeping the darkshroud is this: In most cases it was 80 points for a model that essentially moves and turboboosts every turn to gain a 2+ cover save.  With the current jink, we don't have to turbo boost and get to fire snapshots from the heavy bolter, which was more than we were doing before.  Sure they're snap shots, but at least it's not truly doing nothing other than standing there rolling saves.

 

Good argument, perhaps I should not drop the Darkshroud... Its still cool model (although 11-10-10 with 3 HP should have been pretty much mandatory imho)

[Dark_Master]

The rulebook says if you basically have an inherent power from your codex rules, it's free and doesn't take away from your rolls on the psychic discipline(s) you choose.

 

I don't know about Sanctic. Really aside from Grey Knights it's going to be really challenging to pull off anything over one warp charge without killing yourself (eventually).

 

Sanctic in Deathwing sounds great, but I'm starting to lean towards Divination for the cool bonuses there just because it's safer. I'd like to try Sanctic but with my luck I'll kill good ol' Ezekiel by turn 3. ;)

Wait a minute, does that mean Ezekiel could get 5 powers?

Mind worm (free)

3 powers from same discipline

Discipline primaris power (free)

 

Cheers

 

DM

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The rulebook says if you basically have an inherent power from your codex rules, it's free and doesn't take away from your rolls on the psychic discipline(s) you choose.

I don't know about Sanctic. Really aside from Grey Knights it's going to be really challenging to pull off anything over one warp charge without killing yourself (eventually).

Sanctic in Deathwing sounds great, but I'm starting to lean towards Divination for the cool bonuses there just because it's safer. I'd like to try Sanctic but with my luck I'll kill good ol' Ezekiel by turn 3.

Wait a minute, does that mean Ezekiel could get 5 powers?

Mind worm (free)

3 powers from same discipline

Discipline primaris power (free)

Cheers

DM

6 if you count force. ;)

[Master Sheol]

6 powers For Ezekiel? Cool...

That's a boost!

[notmattlythgoe]

Where in the book does it say they get their listed power for free? I think Zeke only gets to roll for 2 additional powers, especially since that's what his entry in the codex specifies. The BRB says they start with that power but number of powers is still only their mastery level.

[Wraith776]

I'd like to know that as well, as far as I see he can only pick an extra two.
 

"Ezekiel always knows the mind worm psychic power. He may generate two more powers from the Divination, Pyromancy, Telepathy and Telekinesis disciplines" - page 54 of the codex

[notmattlythgoe]

 

I'd like to know that as well, as far as I see he can only pick an extra two.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Ezekiel always knows the mind worm psychic power. He may generate two more powers from the Divination, Pyromancy, Telepathy and Telekinesis disciplines" - page 54 of the codex

Exactly. With psykers getting powers for free this means that a Broodlord would get 3 powers. Horror for free, roll for one, and Dominion for psychic focus. Doesn't seem right to me.

[SvenONE]

Well the first sentence of "Number of Psychic Powers" section says "A Psyker's Entry will usually state how many psychic powers the Psyker has".  It adds "Where this is not the case..." So for us I would say it's business as usual since our codex entry says we can roll up to 2 more times.  

 

I got excited for a second :(

[Caldria]

Ezekial will get 4 powers in total. Mind worm, then 2 from any other school, and then the 4th will be that school's Primaris.

[Wraith776]

Another question. When you take powers all from the same discipline you automatically gain the primaris. Would you still gain it even though we have mind worm on ezekiel, which isn't part of a discipline?

I think the answer would be yes but I have a guy I play with that would argue the point.

Well the first sentence of "Number of Psychic Powers" section says "A Psyker's Entry will usually state how many psychic powers the Psyker has". It adds "Where this is not the case..." So for us I would say it's business as usual since our codex entry says we can roll up to 2 more times.

I got excited for a second

Sorry to rain on your parade Sven

[SnakeChisler]

There's an example in the book where it explains Psychic powers which uses a Daemon who gets to know his Tzeentch power + he can choose his psychic level ones with associated buff for selecting from the same table

 

Anyways you need to look up the wording our codex specifically says 2 powers from the tables and the wording is 'If you choose all your powers from a specific table you get Primary"

 

Your allowed to choose 2 you chose 2 from the same table = get primary for free  

 

Probably will get an FAQ to give him mind worm + 3 from the Psyker tables so that its on par with the Demon

[notmattlythgoe]

The BRB also says if you know any psychic powers that are not part of a discipline then they are ignored when determining psychic focus. So Zeke is good to get a primaris.

[ValourousHeart]

This isn't specifically for DA, but I just noticed in the BRB that flamers hit models in open topped transports and through fire points in buildings. It is in the weapons section for template weapons called no escape, right after the wall of death rule.

 

Was that in last edition?

[Diavlo]

Another question. When you take powers all from the same discipline you automatically gain the primaris. Would you still gain it even though we have mind worm on ezekiel, which isn't part of a discipline?

I think the answer would be yes but I have a guy I play with that would argue the point.

Well the first sentence of "Number of Psychic Powers" section says "A Psyker's Entry will usually state how many psychic powers the Psyker has". It adds "Where this is not the case..." So for us I would say it's business as usual since our codex entry says we can roll up to 2 more times.

I got excited for a second

Sorry to rain on your parade Sven

Hmm

"If a Psyker generates all of his psychic powers from the same psychic discipline, that Psyker will automatically know that discipline’s primaris power in addition to any other powers they know, as described in Psychic Focus (below)."

"vs Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA"

So he 'knows', not 'generate' Mind Worm, and from the powers he generate, all of them may be from the same discipline and get therefore he should get primaris. As all of generated powers are from the same psychic discipline additionally to 'other powers he know'.

[Prot]

I still think he gets it for free (mind worm).

 

If you take this rule literally: "vs Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA"

 

Then that means he can't generate 'Force'.

 

* I think the restriction is meant for psykers locked into one or two powers... IE. Huron

[notmattlythgoe]

I still think he gets it for free (mind worm).

 

If you take this rule literally: "vs Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA"

 

Then that means he can't generate 'Force'.

 

* I think the restriction is meant for psykers locked into one or two powers... IE. Huron

That's not true. The rule for Force specifies it is in addition to any other powers known. Force isn't generated.

 

The rules for generation say some psykers list their known powers. If they don't, you generate powers. Zeke says he knows Mind Worm and also generates 2 additional powers.

[SvenONE]

He certainly does get both Force and Mind Worm for free.  I think the debate is whether or not he gets to generate 3 powers *in addition to what he already knows*.

 

And previously known powers don't affect Psychic Focus when getting the primaris, it says it right in the rulebook.  If he, with his 2 available psyker powers he can generate, takes them both from the same discipline he will get the Primaris for free.

 

There are 2 scenarios for his psychic "loadout":

 

Loadout A

Mind Worm (free)

Force (Free)

Power 1 from Discipline X

Power 2 from Discipline Y

 

Loadout B

Mind Worm (free)

Force (Free)

Power 1 from Discipline X

Power 2 from Discipline X

Power 3 (Parimaris) from Discipline X via Psychic Focus

[notmattlythgoe]

He certainly does get both Force and Mind Worm for free. I think the debate is whether or not he gets to generate 3 powers *in addition to what he already knows*.

 

And previously known powers don't affect Psychic Focus when getting the primaris, it says it right in the rulebook. If he, with his 2 available psyker powers he can generate, takes them both from the same discipline he will get the Primaris for free.

 

There are 2 scenarios for his psychic "loadout":

 

Loadout A

Mind Worm (free)

Force (Free)

Power 1 from Discipline X

Power 2 from Discipline Y

 

Loadout B

Mind Worm (free)

Force (Free)

Power 1 from Discipline X

Power 2 from Discipline X

Power 3 (Parimaris) from Discipline X via Psychic Focus

This is the way I read the rules.

[Caldria]

Yup, the above is how I see it too (forgot about force in my previous post)