Diavlo Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Guys "If a Psyker generates all of his psychic powers from the same psychic discipline, that Psyker will automatically know that discipline’s primaris power in addition to any other powers they know, as described in Psychic Focus (below)." "Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA" For me there is no place for discussion, as there is only Loadout B. Mind worm is KNOWN, not generated and as such primaris power is automatically added, because all generated powers are from the same psychic discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Guys "If a Psyker generates all of his psychic powers from the same psychic discipline, that Psyker will automatically know that discipline’s primaris power in addition to any other powers they know, as described in Psychic Focus (below)." "Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA" For me there is no place for discussion, as there is only Loadout B. Mind worm is KNOWN, not generated and as such primaris power is automatically added, because all generated powers are from the same psychic discipline. I think you're mincing words with the generate vs known debate. He has 2 powers to generate, and a player can say "hey, I'm going to roll on Pyromancy because I want to try and get Fiery form for the invuln" they roll, the dice gods smile upon them and grant it. With the second chosen power, the player decides they want to roll Telepathy for a chance at the extremely new and improved Invisibility. Dice Gods, again smiling upon the player grant it. This leaves Ezekiel with two powers generated from 2 disciplines and therefore does not gain access to the Primaris of either discipline. Loadout A in my example is entirely possible. I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here though..? Other than that you think we should always roll on the same discipline for the primaris? Mind Worm and Force aren't part of a discipline and thus are excluded from any Psychic Focus bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 The psychic focus rule also specifies that if the psyker comes to know another power from another discipline he automaticaly loses the Primaris... Since Mind Worn is not from the same discipline as the chosen one, I understand that Ezekiel automatically loses the Primaris gained from psychic focus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Mind Worm isn't from any discipline, therefore couldn't count as "Knowing something from a different discipline." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 However, Mind Worm is not from another discipline. He always knows mind worm, he only has 2 potential rolls on the psychic tables. He rolls both on one table and gains the primaris as he has used all his available rolls on one discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Mind Worm isn't from any discipline, therefore couldn't count as "Knowing something from a different discipline." This is correct as the BRB specifically states that if a power does not have a discipline it does not cancel out psychic focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I still think he gets it for free (mind worm). If you take this rule literally: "vs Ezekiel always knows the Mind Worm. He may generate two more powers."p54 C:DA" Then that means he can't generate 'Force'. * I think the restriction is meant for psykers locked into one or two powers... IE. Huron That's not true. The rule for Force specifies it is in addition to any other powers known. Force isn't generated. The rules for generation say some psykers list their known powers. If they don't, you generate powers. Zeke says he knows Mind Worm and also generates 2 additional powers. Is there not a difference between 'known' and 'generate'? I still am not satisfied one way or the other. Mind Worm isn't from any discipline, therefore couldn't count as "Knowing something from a different discipline." This is correct as the BRB specifically states that if a power does not have a discipline it does not cancel out psychic focus. That is the way I read it too.... I agree with this interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 The codex states clearly that Ezekiel,knows Mind Word and generates 2 more powers... BRB states that compulsory powers doesn't count for the Focus rule and that Force is a bonus power known by all psykers... So the scenario for Ezekiel is Mind Worm Force Generated Power X Generated Power Y Primaris Power (bonus if X+Y are from the same discipline) IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 That's how I read it as well. Just thought I'd ask incase someone brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The psychic focus rule also specifies that if the psyker comes to know another power from another discipline he automaticaly loses the Primaris... Since Mind Worn is not from the same discipline as the chosen one, I understand that Ezekiel automatically loses the Primaris gained from psychic focus... If this were the case any Psyker with a Force Weapon wouldn't get a free Primaris powers because they know the Force Power by having said weapon. So automatic powers can't be included because they break the way the rules are clearly intended to work: namely that you get bonuses for rolling your powers off of a single chart instead of being denied said bonus for any power you automatically know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Mind Wor is not a discipline, just like force, so psykers that have their signature powers don't lose primaris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Just had a thought, How do our RAS speeders count now? As they are troops (with Azrael / Sammael) do they get the secured objective rule? DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherLibrarianGiles Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 That would be the case, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Just had a thought, How do our RAS speeders count now? As they are troops (with Azrael / Sammael) do they get the secured objective rule? DM Absolutely. Which is a huge boost as they are an extremely fast objective scorer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Especially since we're gonna be getting a divide between two types of "scoring" lists now. Those with min troops and everything else with "lesser" scoring - and then those with troops all over with "super" scoring.A full Ravenwing Army now has the mobility to get to objectives easily and hold it without fear of it being contested (just kill off the enemy objective secured troops early on in the game, and then essentially all objectives are yours to control). Makes turn 5 great for Ravenwing. Also with the new missions, being able to get to where you're needed in a single turn and take the objective there is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 This was one of the better changes for us, especially since our speeders are fast they can flat out 18" which gives them a lot of distance to cover if you need them on an objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 It looks like I'm going to have to tweak my Ravenwing list. Sammael Librarian, level 2, power field generator, bike 5 bike Ravenwing Command Squad, grenade launcher, apothecary, dakka banner 5 bike Ravenwing Command Squad, grenade launcher, apothecary 6 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike, typhoon launcher speeder 6 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike, typhoon launcher speeder 6 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike, typhoon launcher speeder 6 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike, typhoon launcher speeder 3 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike 3 bikes, dual melta, combi-melta, multi-melta attack bike Up to 20 objective secured scoring units, very fast, probably be gunned down in the first turn. :) Of course that's 2489 points. You want to know something really embarrassing? Aside from the command squads (I'd have to buy another three boxes) I have the models to make this army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Or you shoot them down on the first turn Freman Bloodglaive. My last two games with Ravenwing have been using lists very similar to the basis for that one and it has shot up my opponents so badly the games didn't get to turn 3! If you go first it is amazing. Although I personally like to have some Deathwing knights to form an anchoring unit that can soak up enemy fire and attention or provide a hammer unit to crush my opponents toughest threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirrors Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 How does deathwing deal with taking our light armour like rhinos? Came up in my first 7th edition game against Chaos with Belakor, Black Mace DP, two Defilers, three Obliterators and two Rhino squads. My list was Belial, Ezekiel, three Deathwing squads, Deathwing Knights and two Landraiders. We play with decent amount of terrain and his Black Mace DP smashed his way through my Terminators and i didnt have enough fire power to take out all his armour. Does my list have much chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Between Attack Bike multi-melta's and Typhoons, Rhino's really shouldn't be a problem What is a problem is the IG parking lot is back in this edition. It's going to require some serious finesse.... oh and if you haven't heard the news, I hate Deathstrikes. :D Srsly though, light armour is nothing because it really can't run from us, and even my black knights have wrecked their share. Don't always go for the Pen. Vehicles might be back in 7th, but in assault they STILL get hit in rear armour (which surprised me). This also helps us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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