New Army Idea, Input needed

Angron · May 27, 2014

Edit: Full pictures at bottom of thread (6/18)

So the simple premise is that I am making a Blood Angels Army, themed to match The Knights Templar. Or a Hollywood idealization based from the movie Kingdom of Heaven. I have gathered through E-bay and store hunting/wallet cleansing, no less than 40 of the old robed dark angels so that the models will be able to have the templar tabards.

Assault Squads as troops to represent knights. Vindicators to represent the seige engines (catapults). Honor Guard to represent the kings Jerusalem Guard. Sangunary Priests as the Hospitaliers. Bikes as Calvary may be a stretch? and Death Company as the Fanatics. Lead by The Sangunior to represent the King as "Divine Right"

Opinions? Insults? Encouragement?

TGrizzly · May 27, 2014

A good plan, but don't forget that there is already a Black Templar chapter. You're going to want to be careful not to copy their motifs or colors, which should be easy if you're going for a historical templar themed force, since they essentially reversed the scheme. I might be a bit biased (black Templar were my first army in the hobby), but I might suggest you take a look at them. Their squads can be armed bolt pistol/ chainsword, and has an allowance for scouts mixed into the same squad as a kind of page or squire.

If you're set on using the BA dex, then everything you've said looks amazing. Knight motifs shouldn't be hard to do, and it'll give you a good chance to individualize every mini's heraldry.

Lord Commander Scrymgeour · May 27, 2014

Great idea, it's how I see pretty much all space marines anyway, I'd suggest ebaying for a load of grey knight helms too.

Enjoy!

marine7312000 · May 28, 2014

Definitely like the idea. I second the suggestion to take a look at Black Templars, especially their standalone codex.

Quixus · May 28, 2014

You're going to want to be careful not to copy their motifs or colors, which should be easy if you're going for a historical templar themed force, since they essentially reversed the scheme.

Huh, the Black Templars use a black Maltese cross on a white background whereas the Knights Templar did not always use the same type of cross, but all of them were red.

@marine7312000: Didn't the Black Templars get thrown in with C:SM in 6th edition?

Demus Ragnok · May 28, 2014

Templars are included in the 6th edition SM codex. They do have their own chapter tactics however.

marine7312000 · May 28, 2014

They did get rolled into the new SM dex. I'm referring to the previous dex that was released about 5 years ago. It had some really awesome material that explains why the players were so upset about it.

Orblivion · May 28, 2014

A good plan, but don't forget that there is already a Black Templar chapter. You're going to want to be careful not to copy their motifs or colors, which should be easy if you're going for a historical templar themed force, since they essentially reversed the scheme. I might be a bit biased (black Templar were my first army in the hobby), but I might suggest you take a look at them. Their squads can be armed bolt pistol/ chainsword, and has an allowance for scouts mixed into the same squad as a kind of page or squire.

If you're set on using the BA dex, then everything you've said looks amazing. Knight motifs shouldn't be hard to do, and it'll give you a good chance to individualize every mini's heraldry.

The Black Templars are, at least in appearance, actually the Knights Hospitaller and not the Knights Templar.

GAZ_AV_NZ · May 28, 2014

Maybe blood red marines with black cross?

Green or grey robes would look good with red.

Ill post pics of my marines im painting up soon to give you an example of my colours.

Mine are a bit darker looking.

I use orange base with crimson wash.

Good idea of yours though just keep it BA themed

Angron · May 29, 2014

Thank you all! I am sadly just getting back to check the boards after the recent down time. I'll try to get one of my test miniatures up soon. As for the debate of Black Templars vs Blood Angels I wanted to be able to use assault squads as troops and give the whole army a decidedly melee combat flavoring.

Angron · June 9, 2014

I'm sorry guys and potential ladies! i didnt forget about the post! Real Life just got harder lately.

Test Miniature #1. Bike Sgt. Background mini's in various states of progess

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/2014-06-02160534.jpg

Test miniature #2 Company Captain

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/2014-06-02161117.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/2014-06-02161131.jpg

Test Miniature #3 Chapter Master

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/2014-06-02161231.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/2014-06-02161300.jpg

Rellik · June 9, 2014

So what makes them blood angels?

Demoulius · June 9, 2014

Although maybe a somewhat harsh question I agree with Relik. I dont see any blood angel colours or icongraphy on them

That said, you can paint your minis anyway you want and just tell your opponent theyre blood angels ^_^

I am abit confused why you would want them to be blood angels over black templars (as already discussed) though? Crusader squad are basicly assault squads as well, just without jump packs.... In 7th anything can score and the only ebenfit you have from troops is that in battle forged armies they get a special rule. Sorry if im questioning this to much

Angron · June 10, 2014

So what makes them blood angels?

Effectively? Nothing. I do inform my opponent before set-up of the chosen ruleset I crafted the army under. (Wow that sounds snarky. erm, try and take that as a soft reply)

I am abit confused why you would want them to be blood angels over black templars (as already discussed) though? Crusader squad are basicly assault squads as well, just without jump packs.... In 7th anything can score and the only ebenfit you have from troops is that in battle forged armies they get a special rule. Sorry if im questioning this to much

The idea has been around since 6th edition. Way back before the new Marine release, when Black Templars were a stand alone own codex. When idealizing the concept and trying to fluff it out Blood Angels was really only a flavor choice made on my part, additionally it was the first chapter with a clear "kill it with sword" mentality that sprang to mind on the loyalist side. (Aside from my pre-existing Space Wolf Army). Blood Angels iconography on them is non-existant. Thats the point though. Its only using Blood Angels rules. Which upon going back and reading my first post, I admit was less than clear. Since the first post, I was informed that the Sanguinor cant actually join the honor guard, thus the forced creation of both a Captain and a Chapter Master.

From what I gather overall, the concept of Knights Templar is sound but the choice of chapter doesnt seem to fit as well as I orignally thought. Given new codex releases, it may be time to re-evaluate what I play them as. In the end, as long as it looks cool I'll find a happy medium. That being said I'm the same guy that has A Fantasy Orge Kingdoms army all painted to look like Shrek.

Captain Semper · June 10, 2014

A great idea there Angron!

I think (because we had this discussion before in the DA forum) that despite the word "Templars" in their name, the Black Templars resemble more the historical Teutonic Knights with the Germanic nomenclature, focus on martial prowess and even the black cross on a white field (although not a Malta cross for the Teutons). If anything the Dark Angels draw more upon the actual Knights Templar theme with their hidden agendas and secret ceremonies and politics on top of their military capacity.

But I'm not going to expand on historic analogies here as GW has been cautious enough with its background to have many readings and people can pick on whatever inspires them... Plus the knight archetype is applicable to all Space Marines - so it's quite legit for you to choose this theme with the BAs.

And I see you went for the red cross on a white field? Very Templary! I look forward for your work - I'm following this!

Demoulius · June 10, 2014

Tbh you can pull of a knight-templar esque force with any marine army. Basicly we assumed you were using blood angels codex for fluff as well, but if its just rules then thats all good. All space marines share kind of a simular mindset after all. Zealous, xeno-phobic and utterly ruthless in their hunt for enemies. Id advice a chaplain if some form or another or a sword of champion (like black templar emperor's champion :P ) that basicly goes toe to toe with the biggest baddy on the enemy team. Judging from your pictures you went for the latter :) sadly our captains cant be made as....killy as codex space marine characters can. No acces to AA or a decent combat weapon somewhat restricts our options, aside from the higher price for less benefit that the "bare bones" captain has. And we have no chapter master, because thats Dante ;)

just realized I dident provide any feedback on your army choice... Let me fix that ^_^

For troops assault marines are a pretty good choice if somewhat 1-dimensional in their aplication. They move forward and they whack at stuff. A good choice for what you want them to do and the mobility helps but they somewhat suffer from enemy elite infantry who general out-assault assault marines.... ASM lack armor ignoring attacks and with only 1 base attack theyre not spectacular either. On the charge and with FC and FNP theyre alot better though, often outlasting enemy elite infantry and possibly overwhelming them with S5 attacks. You CAN hunt tanks with them but meltaguns (while extremely powerfull) are only 12 inch range. Plasmaguns got more range but are rapid fire weapons so would disallow a charge. Killing vehicles (specialy walkers) in combat can be a chore if their rear armor is higher then 10 (or your hitting a walker on the front) but ive had my ASM pull my arse out of sticky situation with either krak grenades or a good proper powerfist hit :)

DC are also pretty good troops but cant score. Theyre excellent shock troops though and you generally want to be agressive with them. A chaplain (or Lemartes) with them makes them ALOT more dangerous. Pricey though, specialy with jump packs... Make sure you get the charge with these guys for maximum carnage!

Vindies are a very good tank to bring, specialy for blood angels as ours are fast. The 12 inch move followed by the 24 inch range on the weapons often puts people off their game :) if you take them id take a least a pair of AV13 tanks. Dont need to both be vindies but if you only got 1 dangerous tank they often bite the bucket somewhat fast. Having multiple targets might make your opponent spread his fire and gives alot higher chance that 1 or even both survive to take a shot or two :D

Ive got no experience using HG, outside of a game or two. Theyre basicly veterans that can be kitted out either to be shooty or assaulty. From the way you desribed the army im going to guess theyre going to be assaulty. They can get expensive fast, but a banner and/or champion would be appropiate. Maybe a fist as well but I wouldnt pack in much more at this stage as theyre already quite pricey!

SP's are worth their weight in gold if you manage to place them well enough. Renember that they generate a 6 inch bubble so try to have multiple units under their effect at all times. If you take a HG renember that the sanguinary noviate is also effectivly an SP, but one that cant be challenged as he isent an IC

Bikes are ridiculously overpriced. Id avoid at all costs tbh...

I think thats all the units that you mentioned.... Another unit to consider would be whirlwinds if your going for the "catapult" theme of siege machines and dont care to much for effeciency. Against MEQ theyre not all that good I think but against anything with 4+ or worse I think theyre weight in gold :)

Good luck!

Angron · June 18, 2014

Massive photo upload forthcoming. Made a great deal of progress.

Angron · June 18, 2014

Some of them still need work, but with all the activity and opinions helpfully shared so far I thought I would upload what i have. I just recently injured myself at work so painting is on hold for a while.

The Whole Army as of June 18 2014

Chapter Master
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-02161231-1.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-02161300-1.jpg

Company Commander

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-02161117.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-02161131-1.jpg

Honor Guard

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-02161350.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-16163139.jpg

Assault Troops

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-16163225.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/Occultlore/Knights%20Templar/2014-06-16163251.jpg