Aegis in 7th

[ravenshard42]

So I'm not a gk player myself, but my best friend is and we are trying to figure out how to run the aegis in the 7th ed environment. Anyone have any thoughts or difinitives on the matter?

[Frater Cornelius]

All I can say is that the Quad Gun has lost a lot of it's value since Intercept does not allow to fire at ground targets at full BS. If I were to go with my instinct, I'd say take a naked aegis for gunlines and possibly add a relay if you have a lot of vital reserves. Other than that, don't bother.

Psyflemen dreads will do a better job than the quad gun now.

[Dam13n]

Erm... I think he means "The Aegis", not an Aegis Defence Line.

 

As in the -1 Ld to enemy psykers targeting a GK model, which has no effect on the way psychic powers are cast now.

 

The answer is - wait for the FAQ.  I'm having to do the same with my CSM, as I want to know how Spell Familiars now work.

 

It was a bank holiday weekend here in the UK, so today (Tuesday) is the start of the working week, this week.  Hopefully this means that the FAQs will go live today.

 

D.

[Gaz1858]

Cheers Dam13n living in Oz now i totally forgot about the Bank Holiday. Feel stupid hitting refresh on the BL page every hour since Saturday!

 

Plenty of things need addressed so fingers crossed nothing is missed

[GOFADK]

_{Mayby it will by Adamantium Will, witch gives us a extra +1 for Deny the Witch}

[Gentlemanloser]

Still no FAQs yet?

 

And there are stuff in Codexes that are incompatible with the new rules.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Wouldn't hold your breath. GW always takes ages to respond to the community. 

[march10k]

Hah...it's out.  Aegis rerolls deny the witch results of 1.  So not quite as good as adamantium will...but not bad, since it stacks with any other modifiers...If you're denying with a ML3 libby (usually going to be 4+ to deny), it's nearly as good as adamantium will, and if you are denying on 3+ because of ML3+adamantium, rerolling ones is insanely good, a 1/12 chance to fail!

[AnImA8]

Something to bear in mind with all of this is that those +1 modifiers only count if you're Denying a power cast at your unit. So Conjurations, and Blessings don't count towards this. This means that all of our normal benefits (Brotherhood/Pilot, and Hood) don't do us any good. However, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis don't have this restriction, so Dreadnoughts are still our best bet at combating Malefic conjurations.

[IndigoJack]

That they are! I played a 1k game tonight with a psyfleman and was shutting down powers like a boss. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah Reinforced Aegis is insane, its better than a psychic hood in a lot of cases. PsyDreads are back!

[Gentlemanloser]

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, TL Auto Cannon, TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition (135) x4

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, Plasma Cannon/Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammunition (130) x5

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer, Psyflame Ammunition (130) x5

 

Total: 1,840

 

Hot damn, I *really* want to run this.

 

4 Anti Air / Light vehicle Dakka dreads to hang back

5 Longer range anti TDA Dread to drop blasts

5 Close Range Dreads to engage

 

All can score.  All can have a 6+ Invulnerable save.

 

Fluff wise, these are all Paladin in experimental GK Uber Centurion suits.

 

Edit: One dude gets Truesilver Armour.  He's the Warlord.

[Quozzo]

Something to bear in mind with all of this is that those +1 modifiers only count if you're Denying a power cast at your unit. So Conjurations, and Blessings don't count towards this. This means that all of our normal benefits (Brotherhood/Pilot, and Hood) don't do us any good. However, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis don't have this restriction, so Dreadnoughts are still our best bet at combating Malefic conjurations.

Unfortunatly you need to deny all successful warp charges, even if you deny 2 out of 3 successes, the power still manifests, regardless of whether it was a warp cost of 1 or 3

 

 

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, TL Auto Cannon, TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition (135) x4

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, Plasma Cannon/Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammunition (130) x5

Heavy: Grey Knight Dreadnought, Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer, Psyflame Ammunition (130) x5

 

Total: 1,840

 

Hot damn, I *really* want to run this.

 

4 Anti Air / Light vehicle Dakka dreads to hang back

5 Longer range anti TDA Dread to drop blasts

5 Close Range Dreads to engage

 

All can score.  All can have a 6+ Invulnerable save.

 

Fluff wise, these are all Paladin in experimental GK Uber Centurion suits.

 

Edit: One dude gets Truesilver Armour.  He's the Warlord.

I don't like using dreadnoughts due to the fluff. Thank the Emperor those new centurion suits look rather similar (probably helps with repairs if there are less litinies to remember)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I don't like using dreadnoughts due to the fluff. Thank the Emperor those new centurion suits look rather similar (probably helps with repairs if there are less litinies to remember) 

 

Knights don't use Centurion suits because they're unsuited to the Chapters needs. They're too slow, too bulky, and cannot operate in both melee and ranged roles. Remember, Knights can put every member of their Chapter (barring the Purifiers) in TDA warplate if needs be, so they don't have any need for variant suits that aren't as flexible as TDA. Also, you can't teleport Centurion suits. 

Unfortunatly you need to deny all successful warp charges, even if you deny 2 out of 3 successes, the power still manifests, regardless of whether it was a warp cost of 1 or 3

 

We on average generate far more Warp Charge dice than most opponents. If they're throwing 6 dice at a spell, we can too, probably with some to spare. 

[Quozzo]

 

I don't like using dreadnoughts due to the fluff. Thank the Emperor those new centurion suits look rather similar (probably helps with repairs if there are less litinies to remember)

Knights don't use Centurion suits because they're unsuited to the Chapters needs. They're too slow, too bulky, and cannot operate in both melee and ranged roles. Remember, Knights can put every member of their Chapter (barring the Purifiers) in TDA warplate if needs be, so they don't have any need for variant suits that aren't as flexible as TDA. Also, you can't teleport Centurion suits.

 

That's probably fluff, but doesn't explain purgation squads. Centurions at least can excel purgations at either role. The "Dreadnoughts" GL posted could be prototype of dreadknights, they too don't need to be deployed with ranged weaponry, or is that Ward's doing?

[march10k]

 

Something to bear in mind with all of this is that those +1 modifiers only count if you're Denying a power cast at your unit. So Conjurations, and Blessings don't count towards this. This means that all of our normal benefits (Brotherhood/Pilot, and Hood) don't do us any good. However, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis don't have this restriction, so Dreadnoughts are still our best bet at combating Malefic conjurations.

 

You can't deny blessings and conjurations at all, it's not just that the bonuses don't apply:

 

P 26: To make a deny the witch test, first select on of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power.

 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Knights don't use Centurion suits because they're unsuited to the Chapters needs. They're too slow, too bulky, and cannot operate in both melee and ranged roles. Remember, Knights can put every member of their Chapter (barring the Purifiers) in TDA warplate if needs be, so they don't have any need for variant suits that aren't as flexible as TDA. Also, you can't teleport Centurion suits.

 

Can't tell if serious. ;)

 

Assault Centurion with Hurricane Bolters beg to differ.  And as said, Purgation Squads.  They're not in TDA, becuase that would make them *better* (and be able to Deep Strike, which they can't.).

[GOFADK]

 

 

Something to bear in mind with all of this is that those +1 modifiers only count if you're Denying a power cast at your unit. So Conjurations, and Blessings don't count towards this. This means that all of our normal benefits (Brotherhood/Pilot, and Hood) don't do us any good. However, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis don't have this restriction, so Dreadnoughts are still our best bet at combating Malefic conjurations.

 

You can't deny blessings and conjurations at all, it's not just that the bonuses don't apply:

 

P 26: To make a deny the witch test, first select on of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power.

 

 

Read further...

Bottom Page 26, right over the black box with Psychic Hood: If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power... You can still attempt to DtW. To do so follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls - you will require rolls of 6 to nullify Warp Charge points. 

[march10k]

 

 

 

Something to bear in mind with all of this is that those +1 modifiers only count if you're Denying a power cast at your unit. So Conjurations, and Blessings don't count towards this. This means that all of our normal benefits (Brotherhood/Pilot, and Hood) don't do us any good. However, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis don't have this restriction, so Dreadnoughts are still our best bet at combating Malefic conjurations.

 

You can't deny blessings and conjurations at all, it's not just that the bonuses don't apply:

 

P 26: To make a deny the witch test, first select on of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power.

 

 

Read further...

Bottom Page 26, right over the black box with Psychic Hood: If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power... You can still attempt to DtW. To do so follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls - you will require rolls of 6 to nullify Warp Charge points. 

 

Ah...I see.  Stupid GW.  And stupid me.

 

/edit/  I do like it better this way.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Can't tell if serious.

Assault Centurion with Hurricane Bolters beg to differ. And as said, Purgation Squads. They're not in TDA, becuase that would make them *better* (and be able to Deep Strike, which they can't.).

(shrug) Why would Knights settle for lesser armour, when they have readily available Aegis TDA? Not to mention they can't wield nemesis weaponry in a Centurion suit, it doesn't interface with their ranged arsenal either, and it lacks the proper wards...it's even stated in the Marine codex that their First Company doesn't use Centurion armour, its used by Tactical and Assault Marines hand-picked from the Reserve companies.

[Quozzo]

Centurion Armour is an exoskeleton over power armour, so Knights would still have the hexagrammic wards. If Dreadknights can activate their Daemon Hammer then I'm sure some super psychic techmarine can retrofit centurion armour.

[Gentlemanloser]

That.  Nemesis Force Assault Drills FTW!

 

Good for breaching Daemonically possessed fortifications!

 

See, I can forge that narrative!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Centurion Armour is an exoskeleton over power armour, so Knights would still have the hexagrammic wards. If Dreadknights can activate their Daemon Hammer then I'm sure some super psychic techmarine can retrofit centurion armour. 

 

It's more than that. The whole reason Aegis plate is so rare and hard to make is because it has to be purified in the blood of martyred psykers (amongst many other rituals involved). The reason being that Knights can't trust any technology that isn't purified of warp taint, because otherwise it's a potential vector. 

 

It's also too slow and it won't work with nemesis weaponry (as the scale is off). Terminator plate is arguably the hardest to fight in, as its cumbersome and only just allows the wearer the same dexterity as power armour. Centurion plate is slow, very bulky, can't be teleported (as its not designed to be)...plus Knights have no need of it. The support weapons Centurions carry pale in comparison to the Knights arsenal. 

 

Knights typically don't fight sieges, its not their fighting style and they most commonly bypass such defensive measures by teleporting directly into enemy lines. Centurion warplate is designed for siege and long-range work, which is at complete odds with the Chapter's typical mission needs. 

[jeffersonian000]

The "can't be teleported" argument is false. Anything can be teleported. The reason why TDA tends to be preferred for teleporting assaults is more because of the heavier armor increasing survivability upon arrival rather than via the method of arrival. Fluff has gotten really mixed up over the years, yet we still see PA units teleporting without issue.

 

One point that might be throwing people off is the Personal Teleporter, which eschews heavier shielding for portability, requiring either heavy armor (TDA) or a trained Psyker (PAGK). This has lead many to believe that only TDA can be teleported, which is patently false. Nomally, a Teleporter is ship or planet based, requires massive power, a dedicated Geller Field, and works by punching a corridor through the Warp from the Teleporter to the aimed destination. No Geller Field means no Warp shielding. GK Interceptors generate their own Geller Field, allowing them to punch corridors through the Warp with a man portable Teleporter. Psykers casting Gate of Infinity do the same thing. It is implied that TDA doesn't require a Geller Field due to the heavy armor, which may be the case, or it could be that a vehicle such as a Land Raider needs a "Warp Stabization Field" in order to pass through the Warp. As I mentioned earlier, fluff has gotten a bit mixed up over the years.

 

All said, there is no limitation as to why GK cannot use Centurion suits other than tradition, rather that availability or lack of teleportation ability.

 

SJ

[Kenderleech]

how about "If im going to have to lug around something that heavy, it blessed well better give me an invuln."