Rune priests and runic weapons

[Garath]

  Hi guys.

 

  The new ed makes demons the best army there ever was in the whole 40k history ever.  The prospect of my opponent summoning 400-500 pts of troops a turn is certainly a thing that could potentially ...ruin my fun.

 

  I play Dark Angles , but have had a SW army 8 years ago. The changes to the new battle brothers rules allows us to share transport capacity between the armies.

 

  The fact that a Runic weapon can stop any psy power on a 4+ gives us the best available defense against demon cheese.

 

  My plan is to ally a Runic priest and some Grey hunters to my Deathwing force.

 

  I can certaily use your guys suggestions.  I play a list with 2-3 land raiders fulled with terminators, led by Belial and a Power field generator totting Librarian

  

 

 Help

 

 For Lion and Wolf

[Leif Bearclaw]

To be honest, I think you may be overreacting here. Yes Daemons can summon reinforcements, but you're highly unlikely to be facing 400-500 points of reinforcement a turn. The powers are still random, so you won't always be facing summons. All the summon powers are wc3, so the Daemon player would have to throw 6 dice at them to be reasonably sure of getting the power off, then you only need 1 successful deny to stop the power. To reliably get off these powers, the Daemon player will need to bringing horror/heralds etc to increase his wc pool. Those battery units rely on their psychic powers to hurt you, so if they're used as summoning batteries, they're not hurting your army. Really a summon heavy Daemon army is wasting a lot of points on an unrelaible strategy. Tau are what you should still be worrying about, not summoning Daemons.

[logun]

i hear you mate, i read a few battle reports where guys have been summoning enough to double their army in points value. one bloke had  26 + 1D6 dice in the psychic phase. 

 

how many points do you have to spend. a rune preist and a rhino full of GH is around 300 points with some basic upgrades. or you could take Njal for a 3+ nullify,  he's level 2 but has a big price tag. 

 

fixed, don't know why i thought Njal was level 3, wishful thinking aye. 

[Garath]

To be honest, I think you may be overreacting here. Yes Daemons can summon reinforcements, but you're highly unlikely to be facing 400-500 points of reinforcement a turn. The powers are still random, so you won't always be facing summons. All the summon powers are wc3, so the Daemon player would have to throw 6 dice at them to be reasonably sure of getting the power off, then you only need 1 successful deny to stop the power. To reliably get off these powers, the Daemon player will need to bringing horror/heralds etc to increase his wc pool. Those battery units rely on their psychic powers to hurt you, so if they're used as summoning batteries, they're not hurting your army. Really a summon heavy Daemon army is wasting a lot of points on an unrelaible strategy. Tau are what you should still be worrying about, not summoning Daemons.

You could be right...but     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryMAAP6HWfw  ....

 

@Logun

 

  I'm looking at driving the Rune priest in a LRC with some DW terminators.

 

Perhaps a drop pod for the rest of the wolves?

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

To be honest, I think you may be overreacting here. Yes Daemons can summon reinforcements, but you're highly unlikely to be facing 400-500 points of reinforcement a turn. The powers are still random, so you won't always be facing summons. All the summon powers are wc3, so the Daemon player would have to throw 6 dice at them to be reasonably sure of getting the power off, then you only need 1 successful deny to stop the power. To reliably get off these powers, the Daemon player will need to bringing horror/heralds etc to increase his wc pool. Those battery units rely on their psychic powers to hurt you, so if they're used as summoning batteries, they're not hurting your army. Really a summon heavy Daemon army is wasting a lot of points on an unrelaible strategy. Tau are what you should still be worrying about, not summoning Daemons.

You could be right...but     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryMAAP6HWfw  ....

 

@Logun

 

  I'm looking at driving the Rune priest in a LRC with some DW terminators.

 

Perhaps a drop pod for the rest of the wolves?

 

Well, the Daemons didn't win that game.

 

Admittedly, I'd misread the deny rules, I thought a successful deny simply subtracted one warp charge, so getting one deny could knock a mc3 summon down to 2 and fail the power, sadly not.

 

That vid also demonstrated my point initial point, yes the Daemon's warped in 60 Deamonettes in their first turn, but that was all they did, and they were rather lucky to not fail any of their 4 dice summonings. Using an army like that against, say, a Tau or IG gunline would be a different proposition, they can easily pack enough fire power to blunt the summons, and start stripping the wc batteries (especially IG, Wyverns make Daemon infantry very sad).

 

While I'm not saying the summon lists aren't potentially effective, I would still dispute that they are the most OP thing 40k had ever produced.

[Valerian]

i hear you mate, i read a few battle reports where guys have been summoning enough to double their army in points value. one bloke had 26 + 1D6 dice in the psychic phase.

 

how many points do you have to spend. a rune preist and a rhino full of GH is around 300 points with some basic upgrades. or you could take Njal for a 3+ nullify, he's level 3 but has a big price tag.

Njal is level 2, not 3.

[Garath]

Leif Bearclaw

 

  The game they where playing was one of those with random strategies that are drawn each turn-  so If we're not playing those....  The problems start arising when you play a "normal" scenario .

   

  Maybe my statement that it's the most OP thing ever - is a bit too doom and gloom.  Still, back to that game.   The guy summons like a gazillon things and what do we do if we're not IG  ?   

  I do have some IG, but not a lot. I don't fancy buying more of it.

 

   Plus, that Runic weapon will negate both the other spells- very powerful ones like invisibility for example...

 

   

   So, Runepriest in LR,   

 

  G.Hunters in a pod or Rhino ? 

[Leif Bearclaw]

As you only want the RP for psychic defence, whatever you do with GHs will leave them as the softest target in your list. Podding in a single unit like that is of dubious utility. Personally I'd recommend only taking 5/6 Hunters, putting them in a razorback and use them for home or midfield objective grabbing, while your Deathwing and Raiders do the heavy lifting.

[Garath]

   You have a point there.   

 

  Have to double check  on Jaws - that's such a powerful spell it be a shame not to take advantage of it.   How does it work in 7th ?  Was an SW Faq  released ?  

[Leif Bearclaw]

I'm unaware of any 7th FAQs yet, so Jaws should work just like normal, wc1, then use the rules from the SW codex in all their twisted, auto-killing, sniping glory.

[Leif Bearclaw]

So turns out FAQs have dropped, and a RP will help you vs summonings not at all, it's now just a +1 to deny, so a RP can only try to stop powers directly affecting him (unless I've misread it). Also, can't use codex powers any more .

[Pavement Artist]

I am sure you can deny any power now mate

[CatSmasher]

Dude, I am bummed out about losing the codex powers. Honestly, it was the only unit that really kept my army in the game.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I am sure you can deny any power now mate

No you can't, I didn't see it at first, but it looks like, just like before, you can only deny witchfires and maledictions, page 26:

 

'To make a Deny The Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power. You will then need to expend a number of warp charge points, declare how many points you will expend and remove them from your pool. The roll a number of D6 equal to the number of Warp Charge points expended'

[Evilmerlin]

You can always deny, the only thing is whether you get any bonuses to deny. Runic Weapons now give a +1 to your deny rolls but only if the RP's unit was targeted. It's a huge nerf as we don't get access to psychic hoods to apply that bonus over a large area.

[Valerian]

Now that the Errata/FAQ have finally been released, the point of this thread is pretty much moot, as Runic Weapons have been sufficiently nerfed to give you no advantage to allying in a Rune Priest. You're better off sticking with your DA Librarians, or looking toward the Grey Knights (it's their whole purpose for existing anyway).

 

V

[Gideon999]

I dont think so.   At least until the re-Faq it.   For now, RAW is that you get your +1 to Deny rolls, but you didnt actually lose the 4+ nullify inside 24".   RAI i fully expect to go the other direction, naturally.  

 

 Of course, we are no longer force weapons which is messed up....

[Squark]

Given all the other errors in the errata (it even still says runic weapons wound demons on a 2+ even though they can no longer wound anyone at all), we can safely say RAI is force weapons with +1 to deny the witch.