New FAQ

[Leif Bearclaw]

Based on what is written in the codex, which the current FAQ does not tell us to ignore. The old FAQ only mentioned this in an faq, not an errata, it also dated to the era when things like bikes weren't counted as real profile modifications, hence (I assume) the confusion. As the text in the dex specifically says the profile is modified, I don't see how anyone could argue that the WL on thunderwolf is anything other than S5 base.

[Valerian]

... that no character could have the same saga(so, in large games I can't have multiple characters spread over the army that may have the same saga?). 

 

This has been the case for the entire existence of Sagas, since our codex came out back in 2008 - no two characters can have the same Saga (with the exception of Unique characters - which is in the codex, and need not be addressed in any FAQ).  No change to the past 5+ years.

 

 

 

 

[Valerian]

Hm.

 

First impression for me is that things need to be revisited a little, as the broad brush of the rules writers is broad.

 

So, including core 7th Edition changes, and the FAQ together...

 

No need for Ld test on Counter-Attack

Yeah, that's a nice little change from the base special rule description in The Rules.

 

Any and all Bikers just went up a bit, as only the (x) T value is used; could be important, might not be that big.

It was already like that in 6th Edition.

 

SW may embark into Allied transports; flying Bjorn, riding a Stormraven, thanks to Reichfaust, plus 12 PA capacity inside as well.  Could be deadly, with a 10 GH Pack joined by a RP and WGPL...

Yeah, that's definitely a nice new possibility.

 

Frost Weapons continue to be underperforming it looks like; I do think AP 2 is a bit much on a sword, however, as I recall, the board thought User S and AP 2 was a worthy trade off.

Again, no change from 6e. We won't get a new version of Frost Weapons (a "fix") until a new codex release.

 

RP's powers being only core book seems like a real waste of so much fluff.  Centralizing all powers makes sense, however it doesn't feel right to me.

It was expected, however; I haven't gone through all of the other FAQs yet, but I expect this is happening within all of the codices, so at least it is an across the board adjustment, which is fine with me.

 

About half points to increase Mastery Lvl to 2 versus the Master of Runes special rule.

That's real nice, and I'm frankly surprised that they did the points adjustment. However, with the nerf to Runic Weapons (which now aren't as good as Psychic Hoods, IIRC) our Rune Priests are much more expensive than they should be, even with this deduction. Will probably be smarter to ally in a Librarian from another Faction.

 

WG being a unit of Characters might be useful,

Definitely useful. They're back to being a unit where any of them can accept a challenge, so will make a real nice retinue for a hero that wants to kill troops, while avoiding a challenge with an enemy hero.

 

 

 

V

[MalachiOfRuss]

Holy crap, the Heldrake's flamer counts as a hull mounted weapon!

[Valerian]

Holy crap, the Heldrake's flamer counts as a hull mounted weapon!

Sorry I am being dense, but what are the implications of that? Much reduced firing arc now?

[Ulfbjorn Grimclaw]

Just a heads up the 3rd Sentence in the runic weapon description is " A runic weapon is a force weapon" that technically means we get +1 deny the witch in addition to " furthermore whenever an enemy model succeeds on a psychic test within 24" of one or more models with a runic weapon, roll a dice - on a roll of 4+ that power is nullified."    so that would mean we still are the best for denying psychic powers 

[Leif Bearclaw]

Just a heads up the 3rd Sentence in the runic weapon description is " A runic weapon is a force weapon" that technically means we get +1 deny the witch in addition to " furthermore whenever an enemy model succeeds on a psychic test within 24" of one or more models with a runic weapon, roll a dice - on a roll of 4+ that power is nullified."    so that would mean we still are the best for denying psychic powers 

As much as I'd like RPs to retain their psychic defence, I think this is merely the result of some monkey at GW being unable to count. As this would result in the third and fourth sentences stating the following:

 

Furthermore, a model with a runic weapon adds 1 to Deny the Witch roles. Furthermore, whenever an enemy model suceeds on a Psychic test within 24'' of the bearer, roll a dice....

 

Not only does this not make any linguistic sense, it would also mean that runic weapons are no longer force weapons, and cannot be used in assault.

[Grimtooth]

Looks like my Redmaw list remains intact fairly well with my rune priest becoming full on prescience tool only.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

... that no character could have the same saga(so, in large games I can't have multiple characters spread over the army that may have the same saga?). 

 

This has been the case for the entire existence of Sagas, since our codex came out back in 2008 - no two characters can have the same Saga (with the exception of Unique characters - which is in the codex, and need not be addressed in any FAQ).  No change to the past 5+ years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's a nice little change from the base special rule description in The Rules.

 

Any and all Bikers just went up a bit, as only the (x) T value is used; could be important, might not be that big.

It was already like that in 6th Edition.

 

SW may embark into Allied transports; flying Bjorn, riding a Stormraven, thanks to Reichfaust, plus 12 PA capacity inside as well.  Could be deadly, with a 10 GH Pack joined by a RP and WGPL...

Yeah, that's definitely a nice new possibility.

 

Frost Weapons continue to be underperforming it looks like; I do think AP 2 is a bit much on a sword, however, as I recall, the board thought User S and AP 2 was a worthy trade off.

Again, no change from 6e. We won't get a new version of Frost Weapons (a "fix") until a new codex release.

 

RP's powers being only core book seems like a real waste of so much fluff.  Centralizing all powers makes sense, however it doesn't feel right to me.

It was expected, however; I haven't gone through all of the other FAQs yet, but I expect this is happening within all of the codices, so at least it is an across the board adjustment, which is fine with me.

 

About half points to increase Mastery Lvl to 2 versus the Master of Runes special rule.

That's real nice, and I'm frankly surprised that they did the points adjustment. However, with the nerf to Runic Weapons (which now aren't as good as Psychic Hoods, IIRC) our Rune Priests are much more expensive than they should be, even with this deduction. Will probably be smarter to ally in a Librarian from another Faction.

 

WG being a unit of Characters might be useful,

Definitely useful. They're back to being a unit where any of them can accept a challenge, so will make a real nice retinue for a hero that wants to kill troops, while avoiding a challenge with an enemy hero.

 

 

 

V

 

 

So Unique Characters remain saga exemptions, as normal?  That greatly changes the impression I was under just previously to this info.

 

Thanks for the reply, Valerian.

 

Considering things, should the Bjorn + (choice) be a separate thread in this case?  I think figuring out what might be best done in this case might prove a worthwhile discussion to have, as it will solidify flyer choices going forward depending upon intended role and use.

[MalachiOfRuss]

 

Holy crap, the Heldrake's flamer counts as a hull mounted weapon!

Sorry I am being dense, but what are the implications of that? Much reduced firing arc now?

 

 

Yes, you can actually defend yourself by getting behind a Heldrake now.  Nor can it vector strike to bust open a transport, then flame the dudes inside.  Hopefully will get CSM players to stop leaning on that crutch and take other good stuff from their codex.

[Valerian]

So Unique Characters remain saga exemptions, as normal? That greatly changes the impression I was under just previously to this info.

 

Thanks for the reply, Valerian.

 

Yeah, that bit about Unique Characters being exemptions to the normal Saga restriction is in the codex; it hasn't been Errata'd or Amended, or even FAQ'd away here, so it remains valid.

 

 

 

 

 Also, does the Lord of Tempests work at all now? It is in the Codex, just unsure how to approach this one.

 

Should work the same as it always has.  Lord of Tempests isn't a psychic power, just a very unique special rule for Njal.  The only negative here is that two of the effects still don't work right if the Space Wolves player is going second, as they haven't made an Amendment to fix that glaring oversight (which is frankly lazy work on GW's part - would take zero effort to change those).

 

V

[Karack Blackstone]

 

So Unique Characters remain saga exemptions, as normal? That greatly changes the impression I was under just previously to this info.

 

Thanks for the reply, Valerian.

 

Yeah, that bit about Unique Characters being exemptions to the normal Saga restriction is in the codex; it hasn't been Errata'd or Amended, or even FAQ'd away here, so it remains valid.

 

 

 

Considering things, should the Bjorn + (choice) be a separate thread in this case? I think figuring out what might be best done in this case might prove a worthwhile discussion to have, as it will solidify flyer choices going forward depending upon intended role and use.

 

Yeah, that should definitely go to a new thread for futher discussion.  Will see if I can split it out.

 

V

 

 

If not, I or you could possibly just post up a fresh thread for further discussion; 12 PA slots and a Bjorn can really go places, depending upon how the player chooses to shape their fighting force.  I won't create a new thread myself on the matter until later, if I don't see one by tomorrow.

 

As far as the FAQ, what else is superceded by being in our Codex, that might need to be spelled out here?  It's more reading comprehension in terms of current book plus FAQ plus 7th Ed.  I know Fytharin was going to be working on something along those lines, so there's that too.

[Squark]

Things of note: Wolf tail talismans work on Rune Priests, now, as the previous bit that said they replaced your deny the witch roll/runic weapon roll is now gone. Of course, since Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are now Infantry (Character,Character) again, expect a new errata next week.

 

EDIT: I should clarify. While the unit profile says wolf guard are Infantry (character), the pack leaders rule says that when they lead other packs, they gain the character subtype. You'd think GW wouldn't make the same mistake twice, but, hey.

[Valerian]

 

 

If not, I or you could possibly just post up a fresh thread for further discussion; 12 PA slots and a Bjorn can really go places, depending upon how the player chooses to shape their fighting force. I won't create a new thread myself on the matter until later, if I don't see one by tomorrow.

 

Yeah, go ahead and start a new fresh thread on that topic, if you wish.

 

 

As far as the FAQ, what else is superceded by being in our Codex, that might need to be spelled out here? It's more reading comprehension in terms of current book plus FAQ plus 7th Ed. I know Fytharin was going to be working on something along those lines, so there's that too.

 

I'm sure there will be much, much more to discuss, and we're all free to talk those, and open new threads to explore specific topics in more detail to work toward concensus on "fuzzy" issues.  Fytharin will be collecting it all and getting the results together in a deliberate, meaningful structure, that we'll then pin to the top as a Fang resource.  So, she'll be a key player throughout, but her new volunteer responsibility won't preclude you, say, from opening a new thread to work out exactly how Runic Weapons will work in 7e games (given the differences between attempts to Deny the Witch on adversary Blessings and Conjurations vice adversary attacks on Space Wolves units with Witchfire or Maledictions, etc.).

 

V

[grouj]

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard packleaders are kind of stupid now. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer  put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons as leaders of groups =/.

[Leif Bearclaw]

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard, in all of their forms, just became kind of useless. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer have a generic group of terminators =/ or put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons.

Nope, the Leaders of the Pack rule specifically states it only applies to Independent Characters, which regular WG aren't, even if they lead squads.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

If not, I or you could possibly just post up a fresh thread for further discussion; 12 PA slots and a Bjorn can really go places, depending upon how the player chooses to shape their fighting force. I won't create a new thread myself on the matter until later, if I don't see one by tomorrow.

 

Yeah, go ahead and start a new fresh thread on that topic, if you wish.

 

 

As far as the FAQ, what else is superceded by being in our Codex, that might need to be spelled out here? It's more reading comprehension in terms of current book plus FAQ plus 7th Ed. I know Fytharin was going to be working on something along those lines, so there's that too.

 

I'm sure there will be much, much more to discuss, and we're all free to talk those, and open new threads to explore specific topics in more detail to work toward concensus on "fuzzy" issues.  Fytharin will be collecting it all and getting the results together in a deliberate, meaningful structure, that we'll then pin to the top as a Fang resource.  So, she'll be a key player throughout, but her new volunteer responsibility won't preclude you, say, from opening a new thread to work out exactly how Runic Weapons will work in 7e games (given the differences between attempts to Deny the Witch on adversary Blessings and Conjurations vice adversary attacks on Space Wolves units with Witchfire or Maledictions, etc.).

 

V

 

 

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard, in all of their forms, just became kind of useless. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer have a generic group of terminators =/ or put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons.

 

I'll go start that thread.  Also, wasn't trying to limit the fuzzy stuff discussion; I do hope the new edition, FAQ, and hopefully new Codex this year help the Fang here out a bit, as well.

 

Does that really say that, in 7th edition?  Units of WG with the kit that we want is kind of what they are for, did WGPL just get told that there's no "legal" way to all have the same stuff even if they want?  Wow, this seems like a major oversight.

 

Edit: Leaders of the Pack SR specifies only Special Characters, not Characters; post above this one, I see.  Okay, that's vastly superior.

[skeletoro]

here's some worthwhile allied psykers:

 

Tigurius - ml3, reroll power selection and to manifest

Imperial fists - sentinels of terra has a relic that grants +1 warp charge and allows to reroll manifest

Sevrin loth - ml3, very powerful bonus power, can choose powers rather than roll

ahazra Redth - quite a nice bonus power for grey hunters, bolter wolf scouts, long fangs (basically any space wolves unit that uses cover and prefers to counterattack rather than charge). Reroll first failed attempt to manifest (per game, I think? Perhaps per phase was intended but it doesn't say that)

Any librarian with a nice special rule granted by chapter tactics - raven guard librarians grant scout and stealth first turn, white scars grant hit and run. Note that you can't benefit from either rule if the unit in question has a tdawgpl in it.

 

Also, does wolf tail talisman stack with runic weapon? That's a 3+ deny base - 2+ if it is Njal and/or a higher mastery level than the caster. Of course, it's not a bubble now, but this is less of an issue if you're spamming rune priests. The main problem is it doesn't stop blessings.

 

Do ml1 rune priests still get to select 2 powers or was that in a replaced paragraph? Not that it matters so much anymore as ml2 is well worth the 25 points anyway.

[skeletoro]

Should work the same as it always has.  Lord of Tempests isn't a psychic power, just a very unique special rule for Njal.  The only negative here is that two of the effects still don't work right if the Space Wolves player is going second, as they haven't made an Amendment to fix that glaring oversight (which is frankly lazy work on GW's part - would take zero effort to change those).

 

V

Yeah, I can't believe they haven't fixed lord of tempests.

 

I also wish they'd changed frost weapons. I guess if we're seeing a new codex in 6 months it might be a pain to have it change and then change again (potentially). But in some ways I think it would be nice to have changed them to whatever the current 'playtest' rules at gw hq are so they could get feedback.

 

Hell, even removing specialist weapon and making them count as wolf claws/power fists would work as a temporary fix that would see them get occasional use. Or double the current strength bonus to +2/+4. That's just off the top of my head and I hope they so better than that when the actual codex hits.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 

Does that really say that, in 7th edition?  Units of WG with the kit that we want is kind of what they are for, did WGPL just get told that there's no "legal" way to all have the same stuff even if they want?  Wow, this seems like a major oversight.

 

Nope, Independent Characters are the only one's who need unique gear.

 

Do ml1 rune priests still get to select 2 powers or was that in a replaced paragraph? Not that it matters so much anymore as ml2 is well worth the 25 points anyway.

No, looks like RPs now follow all the rulebook psyker rules, so ML only gets one roll, although they would also get the primaris of the discipline they rolled on.

[skeletoro]

so you think gw will update the FAQ to clarify that only wgpls get character? That is what happened after 6th, and it would be hilarious and tragic if they'd made the exact same mistake again. Then again, all characters got precision shots in 6th, so now it is less OP.

[grouj]

 

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard, in all of their forms, just became kind of useless. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer have a generic group of terminators =/ or put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons.

Nope, the Leaders of the Pack rule specifically states it only applies to Independent Characters, which regular WG aren't, even if they lead squads.

 

 

Actually it states

 

"to represent this, no two characters may bear the same sage, nor may they bear the same wargear combination." (page 81 erratas).

 

There are three places for leader of the pack changes, and two of them specifically says character and not independent character (the last two versions of The Leaders of the Pack on pg 81). I hope you are right though, because if what I am reading is true and people opt to go by RAW then our wolf guard just go much more costly and less effective.

[Squark]

Guys. The Wolf Tail talisman DOES NOT give +1 to deny the witch. It lets you nullify a psychic power on a 5+ if it affects the character using it or his unit (The same thing it always has done). So, at the moment, It provides an extra roll to deny psychic powers, and just requires a 5+ to nullify all the time, even if the opponent had multiple successes. It's also argument bait as to what it means for a psychic power to "affect" the unit. It probably just means Witchfires and Misfortune, but I think there are one or two blessings that one could argue it's also applying to.

 

@Grouj: They also copy-pasted the space wolf unit table from the back of the 6th edition rulebook without remembering that it had to be errata'd to remove (character) from Wolf Guard, and left the wolf tail talisman in its current state. In short, the errata team seems to have been rather rushed, so since one of the instances of leaders of the pack refers to independant characters, assume they just were in too much of a hurry to notice there were three instances that needed errata.

[Leif Bearclaw]

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard, in all of their forms, just became kind of useless. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer have a generic group of terminators =/ or put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons.

Nope, the Leaders of the Pack rule specifically states it only applies to Independent Characters, which regular WG aren't, even if they lead squads.

Actually it states

"to represent this, no two characters may bear the same sage, nor may they bear the same wargear combination." (page 81 erratas).

There are three places for leader of the pack changes, and two of them specifically says character and not independent character (the last two versions of The Leaders of the Pack on pg 81). I hope you are right though, because if what I am reading is true and people opt to go by RAW then our wolf guard just go much more costly and less effective.

Well then, this FAQ is simply terribly written. In the copy I'm looking at there are two separate erratas for Leader of the pack on the third page, both errataing the same sentence (2nd sentance, 2nd paragraph), one saying Independent Characters, the other just saying characters. And yet the third errate for the same damn rule has the entire Leaders rule replaced with 'each HQ slot allows up to two HQ choices. However, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same wargear combination'.

So we have the same rule errated three bloody times on the same page. This is on top of the linguistic abomination that RAW states runic weapons aren't ccws any more.

Do they really care so little about their product now?

[grouj]

If I am reading this correctly, Wolf Guard, in all of their forms, just became kind of useless. Since wolf guard are now characters, they may not bear the same wargear as one another. So now you can no longer have a generic group of terminators =/ or put out 5 wolf guard with fists and combi weapons.

Nope, the Leaders of the Pack rule specifically states it only applies to Independent Characters, which regular WG aren't, even if they lead squads.

Actually it states

"to represent this, no two characters may bear the same sage, nor may they bear the same wargear combination." (page 81 erratas).

There are three places for leader of the pack changes, and two of them specifically says character and not independent character (the last two versions of The Leaders of the Pack on pg 81). I hope you are right though, because if what I am reading is true and people opt to go by RAW then our wolf guard just go much more costly and less effective.

Well then, this FAQ is simply terribly written. In the copy I'm looking at there are two separate erratas for Leader of the pack on the third page, both errataing the same sentence (2nd sentance, 2nd paragraph), one saying Independent Characters, the other just saying characters. And yet the third errate for the same damn rule has the entire Leaders rule replaced with 'each HQ slot allows up to two HQ choices. However, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same wargear combination'.

So we have the same rule errated three bloody times on the same page. This is on top of the linguistic abomination that RAW states runic weapons aren't ccws any more.

Do they really care so little about their product now?

Let us hope they fix this quickly brother. But as it is also stated, while our Rune Priests got shafted with the powers, we may yet still be the best anti-psychic in the game, especially if we pair with grey knights and their greater aegis. Plus, Njal can now slap down fliers, so we got that going for us.