New FAQ

[Sigvard]

I think that you guys are worrying far too much about the 'Leaders of the Pack' FAQ section. Regardless of RAW the 'Leaders of Pack' is entirely referencing the HQ Slot -  notice on the page from the Asterisk next to the HQ on the page -  it mentions only HQ slots in the piece of writing and refers to nothing of the other force organisation slots in the army layout. So even if someone states that "RAW says that if refers only to Space Wolf characters not IC's they are wrong because the section is specifically detailing HQ slots again because of the big asterisk next to it.

 

Then even if they still quibble -  by this point you should no longer be playing with people....

 

The FAQ reads as this - "In a Space Wolves detachment each HQ Slot may take up to two HQ choices. However, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor my bear the same wargear combination." (which is fine the whole section still refers to Space Wolves special HQ slots. BIG ASTERISK NEXT TO HQ) we then find in the same FAQ they clarify that sentence. So they have re-written the section for us which is now we have the below.

 

"Change the second sentence of the second paragraph to read. "To represent this no two Independent Characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combinations."

 

So if people still quibble this and still want to be ***holes about it -  don't play them.

 

I personally am very excited about the new FAQ I think that it changes the dynamic of our army ever so slightly and will stop people using the crutches that we simply did not need to prop our fantastic our up. I agree that the FAQ is in places poorly put together but GW has spammed out a new edition and multiple new FAQS so I can forgive teething problems. My only gripe is that Arjac no longer re-rolls in challenges but is back to codex with IC and MC's.

[Valerian]

Also, now that Psychic Powers are generated randomly, they should have amended the Leaders of the Pack rule to not even cover them.  Only Sagas and Wargear combinations need to be different.

 

V

[grouj]

Also, now that Psychic Powers are generated randomly, they should have amended the Leaders of the Pack rule to not even cover them.  Only Sagas and Wargear combinations need to be different.

 

V

They did actually if I remember correctly =)

 

I am going to work later on a balanced list that includes Bjorn in a plane with two rune priests, a wolf lord on thunderwolf and an allied detatchment of knights. Lets see how this works out =)

[Reichfaust]

A few days ago I was lamenting how expensive our Rune Priest's ML2 upgrade was, so I'm very pleased to see the price on that one drop by half. With all the talk of putting him in a Stormraven I would have loved to have seen Bjorn get bumped up to at least Initiative 4 (seriously, he costs more than two individual Dreads yet he's got LOWER initiative than a regular one?!), but sounds like that'll have to wait til next edition!

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

One step closer to vanilla marines...

*sigh*

 

End of Line

[Squark]

One step closer to vanilla marines...

*sigh*

 

End of Line

Eh, it was coming. Might as well get the hang of main rulebook powers while we wait for the new 'dex.

[skeletoro]

Uhh, someone in natfka just pointed out... we didn't lose our bubble.

 

The third sentence for runic weapon is 'a runic weapon counts as a force weapon'. That's what gets replaced - it doesn't remove the bubble. It seems to be in addition to it!

 

Njal's staff counts as a runic weapon. So Njal gets the 4+ bubble too. IN ADDITION, it gets +2 to deny attempts instead of +1.

 

Weirdly, though... runic weapons aren't force weapons. So they're not power weapons.

 

Maybe GW MEANT to replace the fourth sentence of runic weapon, but that's not what they said.

 

Edit: Oh right, that was already discussed.

[Squark]

So, I think we can safely conclude we're going to see an updated FAQ very soon. And it could be worse. Blood Angels lost Fast on all their vehicles, and are in the same boat with their Librarian's price as we are.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I suppose making Njal a LOT more appealing is a good thing, I've always had a soft spot for the old coot. As a casual player, the things that make the wolves of Fenris stand out are slowing becoming the same as every other chapter. That's what my comment is about, not necessarily the FAQ and it's changes game wise, just the slow movement of our beloved chapter closer to codex marines. I had not heard of the BA losing fast on their vehicles...

 

I just don't understand why or HOW a Space Wolf psycher would be cast the same powers as an Ork... Makes no :cussing sense at all...

 

End of Line

[Squark]

I suppose making Njal a LOT more appealing is a good thing, I've always had a soft spot for the old coot. As a casual player, the things that make the wolves of Fenris stand out are slowing becoming the same as every other chapter. That's what my comment is about, not necessarily the FAQ and it's changes game wise, just the slow movement of our beloved chapter closer to codex marines. I had not heard of the BA losing fast on their vehicles...

 

I just don't understand why or HOW a Space Wolf psycher would be cast the same powers as an Ork... Makes no :cussing sense at all...

 

End of Line

It's a stopgap measure. We'll most likely get our own disciplines in our 6th edition codex, its just that, especially with the psychic phase update, a lot of the 5th edition psychic powers were really, really showing their age (Either not working, or creating some very weird interactions), so GW's editing team decided it was better to just get rid of them entirely. Frankly, given how overworked the errata guy seems to be at the moment, this actually seems like the right choice.

 

Also, the only powers we share with Orks are Force weapons and Daemonology, both of which are kind of universal,

[Reede]

I think the Ork Codex will give us an idea if we'll get our powers back or not. If the Orks get a new table, then there's a decent chance the Blood Angels will, and if they do, we're sure to. So... no despair yet. While it's lazy they couldn't give us a quick table update with warp charge costs, it might not be the end yet.

[Squark]

I think the Ork Codex will give us an idea if we'll get our powers back or not. If the Orks get a new table, then there's a decent chance the Blood Angels will, and if they do, we're sure to. So... no despair yet. While it's lazy they couldn't give us a quick table update with warp charge costs, it might not be the end yet.

The issue is one of parity- Grey Knights had more than a few powers that would have had to be totally re-written, and I know of at least two blood angels ones that didn't work either. And if you throw out all of theirs, why would we get to keep ours?

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

In my last post, substitute Ork for any other army with a psychic ability. My point is that who the :cuss thinks it's acceptable for a savage marine killing machine from a frozen death world to create the same power as a sleek androgynous space elf??!! This can be said in defense of ANY army, I realize. One of the things the SW's have and should retain is individuality.

 

I HOPE you're right squark and this is only the 'bubble' you mentioned, but the other marine armies have lost their individual powers. I guess  once the BA codex drops we will see how they are treated.

 

This is a new rule set and change always evoke fear I suppose. But for me, there are more excitements from 7th but more fear from possible codex changes.

 

End of Line

[Valerian]

So, I think we can safely conclude we're going to see an updated FAQ very soon.

 

I'd say so.  I finally had an opportunity to lay down the last FAQ (version 6e 1.3) and do a side-by-side comparison to this newest one released today and by far the vast majority of the entries are copy-and-paste the same.  The big difference in almost everything is the change from "from Codex Space Wolves" to "models with the Space Wolf Faction" in almost every instance.  Those comprise about 90% of the changes in the new Amendments and Errata, with the remaining 10% being the removal of our codex-unique Psychic Powers, and the nerf to Runic Weapons (now a +1 modifier to Deny the Witch rolls).  I don't doubt at all that they'll come through and clean up the mistype of "change sentence 3 of the entry to..." to the appropriate "change sentence 4 of the entry to..."

 

It is slightly annoying that they addressed Leaders of the Pack three times on the same page (twice in the Amendments, and once in the Errata), but I would say it would be completely safe for us to go with this version and ignore the other two:

 

Page 81 - The Leaders of the Pack.  Replace this rule with the following: 'In a Space Wolves Detachment, each HQ slot allows you to take up to two HQ choices.  However, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same war gear combination.'

 

 

Note that this version is the one that leaves out the bit about Psychic Powers (which are now randomly generated), and best meets the intent of the Leaders of the Pack rule.  Nowhere in any of the Leaders of the Pack entries does it remove the bit on page 64 of the codex, which states:

 

The exception to this rule is special characters, who have their own stories and abilities above and beyond the Sagas.  For instance, you could take a character of your own invention and purchase him the Saga of Majesty, despite the fact you intend him to accompany Logan Grimnar, who bears the same Saga.

 

[TheCrazyCaptain]

If they were going to turn us into Semi-Vanilla marines, they could have just incoprorated us into the Codex:Space Marines and put out a Mini-dex like for Eldar and Chaos.

 

At least that way we'd have access to flakk - and would have been updated months ago.

 

Yes - our RPs needed some tweaking, yes we need flak and flyer access... But I don't think we're in need of massive changes.

 

The new FAQ just takes a chains word and runs it through the fabric of our character. What's next?... Taking away our Thunderwolves?

 

Actually - under the new army structure thing.. They could well just vanilla us, and give us an extra unit (Thunderwolves). But hopefully - I'm just bitter and stinging about the FAQs... And the fact I spent 3 months buying and building custom rune priests.

[skeletoro]

Hmm, some random questions.

 

Are runic weapons still unusual force weapons and therefore uniformly star user ap3 or does that rule not exist anymore?

 

How do mixed units move in 7th? Can bikes jink in mixed units? Can they turboboost? How about twc with biker rune priests or wolf priests?

[Baulder]

Valerian just a thought on the pack leaders thing

 

 

 

 However, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same war gear combination.'

 

The key word in this sentence is characters. Now as wolf guard become characters when they become pack leaders this would suggest that you cannot have any two wolfguard pack leaders with the same war gear.

 

While I am not sure this was not the intention, could it stop us taking combi melta/CCW WG to lead GHs?

 

Indeed, the earlier entry states:

 

 

 

To represent this, no two Independent characters......

 

this would seem more reasonable I think, rather than all characters.

 

 

 

EDIT: Apologies if this has already been discussed in the thread. I think a few folks have touched on it already.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Hmm, some random questions.

 

Are runic weapons still unusual force weapons and therefore uniformly star user ap3 or does that rule not exist anymore?

 

To be honest, I was never sure exactly where the idea that Runic Weapons were unusual force weapons cam from in the first place. To count as an unusual force weapon, the weapon needs, and has always needed, unique close combat rules. The Runic Weapon's special rule doesn't affect its performance in close combat, hence it is not an unusual force weapon.

[skeletoro]

It wounds daemons on a 2+.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well, the FAQ specifically states that Njal has a Runic Weapon (stave), so I'd say they aren't unusual.

[Squark]

Ungh. We never bring that argument to a satisfactory conclusion. I will say that if you think normal runic weapons are unusual force weapons, Njal's staff is also unusual, because nothing actually says a Runic weapon (staff) is any different from any other runic weapon, though.

 

Well, technically the runic weapon isn't a weapon at all atm, but I think we all know that isn't going to stick.

[Leif Bearclaw]

The other precedent I'd be tempted to cite are the GK nemesis weapons, which are specifically stated in the FAQ to be unusual force weapons. No such alteration is made for Runic Weapons. They are said to be force weapons (FAQ technicality notwithstanding), there are rules for a Force Stave, the FAQ says Njal has a stave, therefore I don't see how Njal's stave could be unusual (if it was, it would be stated as such). Therefore Runic Weapons aren't unusual and follow the sword/axe/stave breakdown, just like regular force weapons.

[Valerian]

Leif,

 

Here is a good thread that we've had in the past on this very topic:  Runic Weapons.

 

V

[Urauloth]

Holy... I knew JotWW was going away sooner or later, but I didn't expect a FAQ to just obliterate SW unique powers completely. I hope there's going to be a new discipline with the new codex, whenever that is.

[Trevak Dal]

@Leif - Based on what though, In sixth edition FAQ on page 6 it stated that the thunder wolf mount modifiers worked differently than other ability modifiers. As far as I can tell the modifier rules haven't changed at all, and there isn't a separate category for profile modifiers. So without that exception in the FAQ I don't see how it works.

 

Huh, that's kind of silly, Juggernought mounts for Mark of Khorne Chaos Lords give you a stat boost...why wouldn't Thunder wolf mounts?