New FAQ

[Squark]

 

 

@Leif - Based on what though, In sixth edition FAQ on page 6 it stated that the thunder wolf mount modifiers worked differently than other ability modifiers. As far as I can tell the modifier rules haven't changed at all, and there isn't a separate category for profile modifiers. So without that exception in the FAQ I don't see how it works.

Huh, that's kind of silly, Juggernought mounts for Mark of Khorne Chaos Lords give you a stat boost...why wouldn't Thunder wolf mounts?

No, you still get +1 strength, the bonus is just no longer multiplied by a powefist or thunder hammer.

[MalachiOfRuss]

If they were going to turn us into Semi-Vanilla marines, they could have just incoprorated us into the Codex:Space Marines and put out a Mini-dex like for Eldar and Chaos.

 

At least that way we'd have access to flakk - and would have been updated months ago.

 

Yes - our RPs needed some tweaking, yes we need flak and flyer access... But I don't think we're in need of massive changes.

 

The new FAQ just takes a chains word and runs it through the fabric of our character. What's next?... Taking away our Thunderwolves?

 

Actually - under the new army structure thing.. They could well just vanilla us, and give us an extra unit (Thunderwolves). But hopefully - I'm just bitter and stinging about the FAQs... And the fact I spent 3 months buying and building custom rune priests.

 

Yikes, it's not that bad.  We're still pretty unique from vanilla marines (probably the most so of any of the other specialty chapters).  We're going to get a new codex in a few months (feels great to say that with confidence) and then we'll likely get our codex powers back.

 

We all knew Jaws was going away - come on - so then what do we really lose, Living Lightning?  (Did anyone take something other than those two?)  Yeah, not having LL stinks but we can certain deal with it.  As I said before, I was rolling on Divination for my RP most of the time anyway.  Plus, everyone also knew that the "4+ bubble to nullify" was going away as well: Marines lost the hood, Eldar lost Runes of Warding, it was only a matter of time - now's the time.

[Urauloth]

Right, so, TW mount and hammer is now base strength x2 then the +1 from the mount on top for S9?

[Squark]

Right, so, TW mount and hammer is now base strength x2 then the +1 from the mount on top for S9?

Given we don't have an official statement in the errata... Probably. More understanding metagames will probably let you keep S10, though.

[skeletoro]

Does 7th have the same rules for unusual force weapons though? That's what I am wondering. I still don't have the rulebook.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Right, so, TW mount and hammer is now base strength x2 then the +1 from the mount on top for S9?

No, as I said already the mount is a profile change, a WL on mount is S5 for all game purposes, just like TWC, so the hammer would double his S charctewrisitc to 10.

 

On what is the '+1 happens after doubling' based on? Other than how Furious Charge used to work.

[MalachiOfRuss]

It's in the rules as an order of operation: multipliers, then bonuses, then "set values."

[Squark]

Looking at the exact wording, I guess I can see the argument for it still working, but its fuzzy enough that being added back to the FAQ is definitely in order.

 

 

...

 

 

Huh. Given what happened to Destroyer lords when newcrons came out, perhaps we'll see Thunderwolf Lords get their own profile in the new codex.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Do you have a page reference? Because while yes, multiplications do come before additions in a single sum, we essentially have 2 sums here. The mount gives +1S before the game starts. In every phase of the game, the Lord is S5, if called on to make a Strength test, he would test of S5. In the assault phase, his weapon provides a X2 modifier, a separate calculation, so his S characteristic of 5 is then doubled to 10.

 

To use an inverse example, a Lone Wolf with chainfist is S4 on profile, doubled to 8 in assault. The enfeeble Biomancy power hits him with -1 S and T for a turn. Are you saying he should be S7 in assault while the power lasts? Because that sounds entirely counter-intuitive to me, the characteristic is altered in a separate phase, before he uses the weapon, so the alteration occurs before the weapon modifies his S.

 

Edit: found the page (pg 8). Looking at the rules, I still think the important wording in the the thunderwolf mount entry. Where is states the profile is directly modified. The WL's S characteristic is 5, not 4+1.

 

Plus of course, given how TWC are S5 on profile, the spirit is clear, which should be enough for casual games and any TO worth his salt.

[Valerian]

Here is a copy of the email that I just provided to the Errata/FAQ team. I encourage each of you to send something similar, as well (the squeeky wheel gets the grease, after all). Also, I'll be paying close attention to any other issues that we cannot clearly resolve ourselves.

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

Firstly, I would like to thank the team for quickly providing updated documents upon release of the new edition of the game. I am writing, however, to direct your attention to some lingering issues within the Errata/Amendments/FAQ document associated with the Space Wolves codex (which can be accessed at here: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Space_Wolves_v1.0_May14.pdf ). The list of issues follows:

 

 

1. Amendments

 

a. When listing "unit types" for the various units within the Space Wolves Faction, Wolf Guard are noted as now being Infantry (Character). Is it your intent that all Wolf Guard are treated as characters at all times, regardless of whether they've been split off to lead other units? This seems to conflict with the fourth entry, left-hand column, on page 3 of the document which states, "Page 86, Wolf Guard, Pack Leaders...Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph: 'Furthermore, a Wolf Guard Pack Leader's unit type becomes 'Character', in addition to its normal type.

 

b. In the second entry, left-hand column, on page 2 of the document, the Amendment is written: "Page 36-Runic Weapons...The third sentence of the Runic Weapons rule should be replaced with the following: "Furthermore, a model with a runic weapon adds 1 to Deny the Witch rolls.' The correct sentence to replace in the Runic Weapons rule would be the fourth sentence, not the third. Replacing the third sentence (A runic weapon is a force weapon) makes no sense.

 

c. In the sixth entry, right-hand column, on page 2 of the document, the Amendment states: "Page 53-Staff of the Stormcaller...Replace the Staff of the Stormcaller's rule with the following: 'The Staff of the Stormcaller is a runic weapon (stave) that grants Njal an additional +1 bonus to Deny the Witch rolls (for a bonus of +2).' The confusion with this Amendment is that in classifying the staff as a 'runic weapon (stave)' you are implying that there is differentiation in types of runic weapons based on model appearance (e.g. blades, axes, mauls, and lances) as there are with power weapons and regular force weapons; however, as runic weapons have a disctinct special rule that affects close combat (they all wound daemons on a 2+), they should all be classified as 'Unsusual Force Weapons' according to The Rules, and would thus all be S: as user, AP3 weapons, regardless of weapon appearance.

 

d. On page 3 of the document you have addressed the Leaders of the Pack rule with three separate entries on the same page (twice in the Amendments section, and once in the Errata), which has caused a great deal of confusion. I recommend that you remove all three entries and replace with this newer, clearer Amendment: "In a Space Wolves Detachment, each HQ slot allows you to take up to two HQ choices. However, no two independent characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same wargear combination." This wording removes the inclusion of Psychic Powers, as those are now determined by random dice rolls, and ensures that the restriction only applies to independent characters as originally intended, and not also to other 'characters' (like Wolf Guard, for example).

 

2. FAQ

 

a. Please clarify whether the +1 bonus to the Strength characteristic granted to a model that selects a Thunderwolf Mount is applied before or after other modifiers. In other words, does a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount that is armed with a Power Fist attack in close combat with Strength 10 (which is implied in a profile change), or just Strength 9 (which would result from 'normal' orders of operation within The Rules)?

 

 

Thank you in advance for your attention to these issues.

 

 

Best regards,

 

.....

[Squark]

You missed asking about how the Wolf Tail talisman interacts with Deny the Witch. Other than that, it looks very well written.

[Valerian]

You missed asking about how the Wolf Tail talisman interacts with Deny the Witch. Other than that, it looks very well written.

Will have to save that one for the next iteration. For now, since Wolf Tail Talismans were not addressed in the document, we should treat them as written, which provides a 5+ to Nullify for a targeted model/unit, so that would be in addition to a DtW attempt.

 

Oh, and just to facilitate submissions, here is the appropriate email address to send your questions, issues, and concerns to: Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 

V

[lunchb0x]

If i am reading the oath for the wolf priest correctly, he can just select a unit type for the effect? " selects : infantry" right?

[logun]

If i am reading the oath for the wolf priest correctly, he can just select a unit type for the effect? " selects : infantry" right?

 

yep

[Valerian]

If i am reading the oath for the wolf priest correctly, he can just select a unit type for the effect? " selects : infantry" right?

 

That's correct.  If he selects Infantry (which he usually will), that would also include the sub-type Jump Infantry.  Another good alternative would be selecting Bikes & Jetbikes if facing a Ravenwing or White Scars army, for example.

 

V

[Fytharin]

 

You missed asking about how the Wolf Tail talisman interacts with Deny the Witch. Other than that, it looks very well written.

Will have to save that one for the next iteration. For now, since Wolf Tail Talismans were not addressed in the document, we should treat them as written, which provides a 5+ to Nullify for a targeted model/unit, so that would be in addition to a DtW attempt.

 

 

For now it might be safe to say it adds a +1 however that may be one of the things to bring up to your opponent and ask for an agreement up front.

[Lord Ragnarok]

We need to not rehash old FAQ debates. I suggest folks do the same thing valerian did and compare the old and new faq's. Only discuss the changes that were made, or the changes not made, and how it effects options for Sw's with respect to 7th edition.

[CatSmasher]

FAQ Update: They changed the bungled RP entry regarding Runic Weapons

[Valerian]

FAQ Update: They changed the bungled RP entry regarding Runic Weapons

Wow, really? That was surprisingly fast. Guess I should go take a look. Any other changes that you could spot?

 

V

 

Edit: No other changes at all, but at least they fixed that right away. 

[Reede]

Still too bad they couldn't add at least a 12" range to that to put it inline with psychic hoods. I get it would make them a bit better, but at the same time, we're paying an extra 25 points for it so.... seems like it'd be fair. I get they needed to be nerfed, but eesh, this is hitting them with a tree trunk, not a bat.

 

I also find it odd that, while it's there for other characters, Grimnar's ability to turn Wolf Guard into troops doesn't state that it gives them the objective secured special rule.

[Squark]

Still too bad they couldn't add at least a 12" range to that to put it inline with psychic hoods. I get it would make them a bit better, but at the same time, we're paying an extra 25 points for it so.... seems like it'd be fair. I get they needed to be nerfed, but eesh, this is hitting them with a tree trunk, not a bat.

 

I also find it odd that, while it's there for other characters, Grimnar's ability to turn Wolf Guard into troops doesn't state that it gives them the objective secured special rule.

It isn't needed. If they're taken in the troops slot, or "score like troops," (Like a Grand Master's Grand Strategy), they should have objective secured. It only really matters for Guys like Perdo Kantor, who made Sternguard score, but didn't make them troops (so you still needed at least 2 units of scouts)

[Reede]

Ah, makes sense then, i'd never fully looked at it but I just though he did the normal "They count as troops."

[Valerian]

 

Still too bad they couldn't add at least a 12" range to that to put it inline with psychic hoods. I get it would make them a bit better, but at the same time, we're paying an extra 25 points for it so.... seems like it'd be fair. I get they needed to be nerfed, but eesh, this is hitting them with a tree trunk, not a bat.

 

I also find it odd that, while it's there for other characters, Grimnar's ability to turn Wolf Guard into troops doesn't state that it gives them the objective secured special rule.

It isn't needed. If they're taken in the troops slot, or "score like troops," (Like a Grand Master's Grand Strategy), they should have objective secured. It only really matters for Guys like Perdo Kantor, who made Sternguard score, but didn't make them troops (so you still needed at least 2 units of scouts)

 

Concur.

[Squark]

The only exception I can think of are Fenrisian wolves, since, you know, they never score.

[skeletoro]

Man, grey knights look kinda OP now, actually.

Their storm ravens can take paybolt ammunition and *SANCTUARY*.

..OH. targets the pskyer. Damn, that's a lot less awesome. Still, they do generate an extra warp charge point as they're a psyker (ml1).

The troops choices get hammer hand, which is now str +2. You might think you're worse off in 7th because it's harder to pass the test, but think about it this way - you only need to cast the power on some of your units each turn. Much of the time, half your units won't be in close combat, and they can lend their dice to the units that are.

How does combat squads interact with brotherhood of psykers?

Grey knights librarians are a bargain for what they can do, also. And hey, if you take divination and get misfortune, your standard grey knight troops choice with psybolt ammunition storm bolters can actually act as anti-tank to some degree. Strength 5 rending is nothing to sneeze at.

Inquisitors are a bargain, as always.

And... grey knights have various anti psychic rules that actually still do something in 7th, unlike space wolves.

I hate painting silver though. Would be a struggle to forge the narrative for an alliance between wolves ands grey knights, too. Hehe