Greyall Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I recall reading somewhere around here that the Khan would eventually become a more duty-bound son. Which I take to confirming that his portrait as something of a teenager in how he views his brothers was intentional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3701855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I don't think Horus is as close to the Khan as much as the Khan believes himself to be as close to Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3701858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 True. Though I think Horus would've liked for it to be true (with all of his brothers). He was simply too calculistic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3701860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 So .... If Curze can face and effectivley beat Guilliman and the Lion when its 2 on 1 .......and Vulkan can kick the living snot out of Curze ( or at least do a lot more damage than Guilliman and the Lion) The primarch who did the most damage to Curze was the Lion...and that was 1 on 1 (their second duel) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 And was also about to kill him a third time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Vulkan could of killed Curze, but didn't because it's what Curze wanted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 And was also about to kill him a third time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 And was also about to kill him a third time. MAYBE. Or Curze coulda been all nightman and wallop the Lion. With Primarchs, nothing is a given except with Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Vulkan could of killed Curze, but didn't because it's what Curze wanted. Yes well, when you cannot die, its also a bit of an unfair advantage...taking the long view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 With Primarchs, nothing is a given except with Horus. Non-Chaos Horus was good but he wasn't unbeatable. Chaos Horus rivaled the Emperor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 You can put me down for enjoying "Unremembered Empire" as well. Oddly enough, "Scars", which everyone else praised to the rooftops, was very much a miss for me. UE certainly wasn't all bad. And Scars definitely had its flaws. I even agree with your specifics: your summary of that scene in Scars is perfect, and Lionel and Guilliman's interactions were definitely a strong point that felt pure Abnett. But UE had a lot of bits that just felt silly to me, and while they're forgiven easily enough, I didn't feel it had the strength Know No Fear did. I read KNF in a single evening. I read UE in a single evening too, the day afterwards, because I was waiting for it to become as good as its predecessor. But -- though it had its good moments, and though it was clearly from the same pen -- it never did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I liked UE. I even liked Prytanis; not for his character, but for what he was. Think about it. Every Perpetual we've seen in the Heresy so far can generally be considered "a good guy." The Emperor has his detractors, I know, but generally speaking he's out to save humanity. Oll Persson goes on to great glory and saint hood, as most of us know. Grammaticus hates his position as the Cabal's super-007 and eventually starts working at cross-purposes. And Vulkan has always been considered the Nice Guy Primarch. And then we have Damon Prytanis. Here's a guy with, seemingly, no conscience. He doesn't care that he's being used as a tool by a collection of genocidal xenos. They tell him to kill something, he kills it. Multiple times, if necessary. I'm just glad we got a Perpetual who isn't all, "Must save mankind!" but is instead "Must save myself!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 For me, the main detraction for Unremembered Empire is where it continued with the Vulkan Lives plot. That book was just so bad. Scars was good, but those parts that Wade pointed out were pretty dang bad. I've said elsewhere that Wraight has the potential of being another McNeil. He has proven that he can do good, but that Ullanor scene, and most of Battle of the Fang, proves that he can also provide us with another Ultramarines series or Angel Exterminatus. I'm really hoping he does more of the former, but it is hard to tell. Scars had that pants-on head retarded scene at Ullanor, but the rest of the book, and the general V Legion lore it provided, was very good. Battle of the Fang, however, was like reading an alternate universe book where Uriel Ventris was a Space Wolf. As obvious a fan as I am of alternate 30k/40k universes, that one sucked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3702904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 For me, the main detraction for Unremembered Empire is where it continued with the Vulkan Lives plot. That book was just so bad. Scars was good, but those parts that Wade pointed out were pretty dang bad. I've said elsewhere that Wraight has the potential of being another McNeil. He has proven that he can do good, but that Ullanor scene, and most of Battle of the Fang, proves that he can also provide us with another Ultramarines series or Angel Exterminatus. I'm really hoping he does more of the former, but it is hard to tell. Scars had that pants-on head retarded scene at Ullanor, but the rest of the book, and the general V Legion lore it provided, was very good. Battle of the Fang, however, was like reading an alternate universe book where Uriel Ventris was a Space Wolf. As obvious a fan as I am of alternate 30k/40k universes, that one sucked. I thought Battle of the Fang was a well-regarded book? Oh, and I really liked the Ullanor scene in Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 So is the Uriel Ventris saga. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I genuinely don't get the bile directed at McNeil on this forum (it's actually how I ended up here, arguing about McNeil on the Escapist). I just don't get it, Swallow has delivered far worse books than McNeil ever has, yet I see almost no hate directed his way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Disappointment goes a long way. There might be some, but I honestly can't think of any good Swallow books. McNeil, on the other hand, has delivered books on par with Abnett and AD-B. We have seen what he is capable of offering us, and so when we get something more expected of Swallow . . . We rant online. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Cormac summed it up. It's one thing for a bad author to deliver nonsenical lore, characters with all the depth of cardboard, and plots that require everyone in the galaxy to be a thundering dunderhead. We expect this of certain individuals. When they deliver, there is no disappointment, no rage. Just "SSDD" and move along. And then we get a writer that WE KNOW can do better...the bar is set higher, and if it isn't cleared, THEN cometh the howling typhoon of vaguely coherent nerd rage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Name a book authored by McNeill that is written on par with any Abnett novel. If you say A Thousand Sons, I'll laugh. ATS a good fun book to read at the time, but doesn't age well whatsoever with more than one reading in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I don't know, I didn't like Unremembered Empire as much as I liked ATS. McNeil really captured the desperation of the ATS. Mechanicum was also pretty good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 So is the Uriel Ventris saga. Only by people who read them when they first came out. I came back to them years later after reading Abnett, ADB, Sanders, and Haley, and thought they were flat out terrible. The Priests of Mars series are decent, but I still wouldn't say they held a candle to Titanicus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Name a book authored by McNeill that is written on par with any Abnett novel. If you say A Thousand Sons, I'll laugh. ATS a good fun book to read at the time, but doesn't age well whatsoever with more than one reading in my opinion. Well, feel free to begin with the laughter, because that book is on the list, and from what I have seen is on his top three, including Mechanicum and his all-time best-seller, Storm of Iron. As being just plain good books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Name a book authored by McNeill that is written on par with any Abnett novel. If you say A Thousand Sons, I'll laugh. ATS a good fun book to read at the time, but doesn't age well whatsoever with more than one reading in my opinion. ATS is better than any Abnett contribution to the HH series bar Legion, which I put at ATS >= Legion level. Prospero Burns is trash. Know no Fear was ok, but started (or escalated) the massive disjointing we have seen of threads and plot lines. Unremembered Empire was a comic book superhero story. Take your pick but there is no fathomable way ATS is worse than those 3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 You forgot Horus Rising. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Aside from the minor issue of almost renaming the Space Wolves the Wet Leopards, I liked Prospero Burns too. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291503-damon-prytanis-beast-or-what/page/3/#findComment-3703330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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