DA possibly my next army

[Noxnoctis22]

I'm currently a Raven Guard player and I'm looking into starting my 2nd army soon and Dark Angels might just be it. When I asked other players what was the Anti-RG army (fluff, tactics/game-play or modelling/painting wise) they mentioned DA. It's just that I love playing RG but I think that building an army that's some what opposite to it will give me a better experience. 

 

So what makes DA special, fluff, tactics/game-play or modelling/painting wise? Also as a new player would the "Dark Vengeance" be a decent place to start? Why or what not?

[Brother dean]

Not knowing exactly what RG consist of outside of the "Lots of Vanguard Vets" trope, I will go out on a limb and say that DA plays a much more static game... Not that we dont have mobility. Our termies can be anywhere on turn one with some luck...

The DA playstyle is based on synergy, a "Greater than the sum of our parts" kind of game. Bikes with scout and teleport homers make for fast termies without Land Raiders. Bikes or Tacticals with a Banner of Devastation equal a 4 fold number of bolter shots... Bike jink (new) with the Dark Shroud speeder will give you a 3+ cover save... (with shooting as snapshot the next turn.. )

Combo's for short.

As for the Dark Vengeance box... Yes. it is an excellent value. Using the included Captain as our chapter master Azrael will give you a tactical squad, termie squad and a bike squad that count as three troops choices that with the new 7th rules makes them all three "super" scoring in a Battle Forged list. Librarians are huge in the new direction but I would wait for the new release of the DV box next month (or July) with a small copy of the 7th rules in it...

[Prot]

Your friends mentioned Chaos AND Dark Angels as the anti-RG army?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291505-csm-possibly-my-next-army/

 

 

Since you're onto the Chaos idea and Dark Angels... then yea, the 2 player set would give you a lot to work from in either/both cases.

[Noxnoctis22]

Your friends mentioned Chaos AND Dark Angels as the anti-RG army?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291505-csm-possibly-my-next-army/

 

 

Since you're onto the Chaos idea and Dark Angels... then yea, the 2 player set would give you a lot to work from in either/both cases.

 

I posted my "Anti-RG" topic in the RG forum but the topic and it's post were lost over the weekend. As I recall I was suggested DA, CSM, IG/AM, Orks, Tyranids and Tau

 

I ruled out the IG/AM, Orks and Tyranids because I just don't want to deal with that many units and models to buy/paint/play

 

Tau sounds interesting but I'm not 100% sold on them, plus how would the great people here at Bolter & Chainsword help me out there?

 

So that leaves DA and CSM. The DV box set looks better and better nowadays, just hoping with a new box set on the way the price of DV will drop.

[Brother dean]

 

So that leaves DA and CSM. The DV box set looks better and better nowadays, just hoping with a new box set on the way the price of DV will drop.

 

Allegedly, DV will not be replaced and the rumors of a BA/Orks box may have been false..  the current "rumor" is that DV will be produced with the 7th book in it and be available soon.

 

Salt all around!

[Noxnoctis22]

 

 

So that leaves DA and CSM. The DV box set looks better and better nowadays, just hoping with a new box set on the way the price of DV will drop.

 

Allegedly, DV will not be replaced and the rumors of a BA/Orks box may have been false..  the current "rumor" is that DV will be produced with the 7th book in it and be available soon.

 

Salt all around!

 

 

When and IF the DV box set is produced with the 7thE RB then I might just wait for that. I only picked up the mini-rulebook from the DV set about 3-4 months ago when I jumped back into 40K, should have got the whole box set then, oh well...

 

And boooooo to the BA/Orks box set. Great for 40K as a whole but just not for me.

[Brother dean]

it's not been said that the BA/Orks is false per-se but DV is going to be re-released with the new book per White Dwarf Weekly #16

[Komrk]

Oops nox, sorry. It was a joke because Dark Angels ARE Chaos Space Marines. Joking aside, the DA are a really nice army

[Polythemus]

Careful Komrk, there may be a time you call for aid and the only ones to answer the call are the Unforgiven. When that time comes its better to be on their good side... if your not, well, sometimes things like sudden rapid redeployments of system come up when you least expect them... 

[Komrk]

Don't worry, I always expect the DA to abandon us mid fight. Just like the White Scars... and the Iron Hands. Who knows who will get the Raven Guard 5th Company killed off (again).

[Gillyfish]

Hmm, I'm not sure how well the DA fit as the antithesis to the Raven Guard; one fot eh DA's strengths is that lots of different playstyles are possible. All terminator and/or all bike/light vehicle builds are possible, as are standard power armoured lists. A DA army can actually be pretty easy to redeploy if you build it that way.

 

I suppose it depends on what you consider to be the playstyle you're aiming for. :)

 

Nevertheless, welcome to the fold. Once in, you may never turn back...

[Isiah]

I'd say it's a good time to be looking at Dark Angels. In 7th Deathwing has become stronger and Greenwing very interesting. Ravenwing marginally less good - but not a deal-breaking loss in effectiveness.

 

Welcome to the Rock.

 

Cheers

I

[SnakeChisler]

I'd describe DA as Brutal, in Ravenwing and Deathwing form they can be a potent Alpha strike Army even more so with the reserve restrictions now lifted.

 

They are one of the few Marine armies that have a powerful assault element with the Deathwing Knights and the Ravenwing Black Knights without having to pay loads of points for special weapons.

 

 

They hate Chaos SM giving our crack units preferred enemy

 

With the rule change a full frontal Deathwing Assault is now possible

[Noxnoctis22]

Just so it's known I'm NOT a competitive tournament player by any means but I do like to win when I play friendly games at my local hobby shop. As long as the game was fun for both me and my opponent I'm happy. So if DA aren't going to win every time out I can live with that.

 

As for how DA could fill my Anti-RG need, I see it as more of a fluff solution. My army is RG successor chapter I created myself call "Night Ravens" (Purple armor, gold trim, white shoulders) and I have a been of a background and story about who they are and their story but it's all still locked away in my brainspace at the moment. Now if I was to create a DA army I could create an rival chapter to my Night Ravens. Brothers in arms but chapters that have a different way of doing things. Create some real friction between the two of them and create a piece of fluff that fits both armies.

 

I also asked about an Anti-RG army in terms of tactics as my army is geared my towards assault/CC using mostly Jump Pack units and Scouts. Figured it would be good for me to try an army that relies on other types of combat and units. Help me become a more well rounded 40K player.

[HsojVvad]

Not really sure how to help you my friend. All I can say is for me. I don't play anymore but when I did play I used the 4th edition codex when other people use the SM codex or switched to other codices.

 

I am a Dark Angel player. I am a Dark Angel because I love the fluff. I am a Dark Angel because I love the minis. I don't need to win, but have fun. I have fun with my Dark Angels no matter what. (again I stuck with the 4th edition codex. :P) We may not have the strongest codex. We may not have the easiest codex to win with. It could be a challenge to play Dark Angels. Others have it easier. But we can play a very Fluffy army. 

 

We can play an all Termie army. We can play an all Bikey army. We can play an all Powered Armour army. We can play a combination of all of them. While they may not be powerful, or a winning combination on it's own, it can be FUN. Maybe not something you will do all the time, but you will ALWAYS have VARIATION and different combinations to try out. Yes you can win. Yes you will Loose. But you should aways be having fun.

 

If you need to win Dark Angles are not for you. To be a DA player you need to like the fluff. The stories. The histories. The pride. Nothing else really matters once this is considered. 

 

There is nothing wrong in not liking the story or the fluff of DA. Problem is, you will not then get "into" the character of being a DA. I think you may know what I mean. I believe you consider yourself to be a Raven Guard player. You like or even love the history, the fluff, the play style of a RG. Same goes for DA. 

 

A lot of people start DA. A lot of people leave and not become DA players, because they are not an easy army to play with. You may not win a lot of games in the beginning and that can be disheartening. Mind that, a lot of people do win as DA players and so it can be done. Time. Patience. Learn. Some people don't have the time or patience to do this. 

 

So is Dark Angles for you? Only you can say. Learn first. Go on the wikis and read the stories and fluff about DA. Read the forums. Ask questions (like you are doing now.) Ask more questions, specific questions. 

 

I said it once, but I will say it again. Do you need to win? I mean will you be upset if you loose? Do you need an easy army to play in order to win? DA has charter. That doesn't mean anything if you are not happy because you are not winning. Nothing wrong in that. Nothing worst than spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on something you are not having fun with. Part of being a Dark Angel is involving yourself with the fluff. You actually feel like you are like a Dark Angel. Honour. Pride. Once you feel this, and you keep loosing all the time it doesn't matter. Yes it stings but in the end you are a Dark Angel. 

 

Also the Dark Angel forum seems like a family. I don't sense this on other forums. Maybe because I am not a Black Templar or an Ultramarine or Blood Angel or what ever. But it feels like home here on the B&C DA forum. Yes we complain. Yes we cry and tantrum sometimes, but that is because we are passionate about being a DA, not because of wins. 

 

So before you spend your time and money and energy, make sure this is what you want. DA is not an easy army to play. But it's SOOOOO MUCH FUN to Play if it's your style. 

[Noxnoctis22]

Well even though I posed the same questions about starting a CSM army as my second amrm as I did here I'm starting to lean back towards DA. The CSM players did reply more and had more follow up posts but they tended to repeat themselves, still very informative. But I will say EVERYBODY on Bolter & Chainsword has been helpful, something that I love about these forums. I've been on other 40K forums but here seems to have the best group of people IMO.

 

@HsojVvad - You really are a great pitch man for DA. Today/this weekend I'm making it my goal to read the codex from to back and follow that up with a bunch of wikis. I'm a 40K enthusiast/hobbyist/player because it's FUN. All of it, not just winning games on the tabletop. Reading the novels and fluff, FUN. Painting models, FUN. Talking tactics, FUN. Playing the game with freinds, TONS OF FUN. So if at the end of the day I lose, so what. I had TONS OF RUN right?

 

Question(s) for all the DA players. Starting an army wise the DV Box Set seems like a great choice (once it has the mini 7th E rulebook, if that's true) but what about the new "Space Marine Strike Force Ultra" http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Strike-Force-Ultra ? I know it's not true DA but it's got tons of Terminators in it and I can see with a few modelling details they could very easily become DA. Also anything not useful to my DA can make it's way into my SM army. Just a wild idea...

[MadMek83]

Well, Dark Angels players are.... very dedicated bunch of people. That is what you get when you play entire 5th edition with 4th edition codex and which wasn't nearly strongest 4th edition codex or latest. You also see DA players dedication in vow's and competitions in here, where DA challenge and beat most other power armor forces simply because of our dedication for the cause.

[Aradiel]

HsojVvad, you are my hero, can i build i shrine in your honour?

[Polythemus]

Well even though I posed the same questions about starting a CSM army as my second amrm as I did here I'm starting to lean back towards DA. The CSM players did reply more and had more follow up posts but they tended to repeat themselves, still very informative. But I will say EVERYBODY on Bolter & Chainsword has been helpful, something that I love about these forums. I've been on other 40K forums but here seems to have the best group of people IMO.

 

@HsojVvad - You really are a great pitch man for DA. Today/this weekend I'm making it my goal to read the codex from to back and follow that up with a bunch of wikis. I'm a 40K enthusiast/hobbyist/player because it's FUN. All of it, not just winning games on the tabletop. Reading the novels and fluff, FUN. Painting models, FUN. Talking tactics, FUN. Playing the game with freinds, TONS OF FUN. So if at the end of the day I lose, so what. I had TONS OF RUN right?

 

Question(s) for all the DA players. Starting an army wise the DV Box Set seems like a great choice (once it has the mini 7th E rulebook, if that's true) but what about the new "Space Marine Strike Force Ultra" http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Strike-Force-Ultra ? I know it's not true DA but it's got tons of Terminators in it and I can see with a few modelling details they could very easily become DA. Also anything not useful to my DA can make it's way into my SM army. Just a wild idea...

 

The DV Box set is OK but you might not know if it has the mini rule book. As for the models themselves ebay is really where you can make your $ go far. you can usually find the DA part of the box for under $50.00 which means you could buy 2 of them for the price of Dark vengeance set and get all of the models you want. that strike force kit looks nice i guess but i would check to see if your actually saving any money by buying those models as a package. We here in the US are used to package deals being more affordable than the seperate components, but often GW just likes making new boxes and selling stuff for the same inflated price. Again i direct you to ebay...

 

HsojVvad comes at the hobby from a very particular enthusiast angle. I will say this I really cant stand most of the novels in this genre, i find that they aren't very well written and sadly their often tied into tropes about how particular chapters or groups can be identified by their collective personality traits which really limits character development. However the imagery (3 paint schemes in one chapter!) and the models are what I really like about the dark angels, plus they really have the some sweet background. Plus if you don't like some of the aspects of the Chapter you can always do a successor or do like i do, and reinvent how you think about them and just use the stuff you like. For example alot of backstory presents the Dark Angels as brooding, cold, unfeeling, pious, xenophobic, "holier-than thou." I say screw that! My dark angles are basically more like batman, troubled and maybe brooding, but with hearts of gold. My ravenwing tend to come across more like cowboys and daredevils ready to throw themselves into the fray. The Deathwing and Inner circle tend to be more on the side of ancient chivalrous knights, though perhaps with their own secret agenda. Rationalize however you want, but if you want some amazing models with awesome schemes... the Rock Awaits You!

 

However any good Dark Angel knows that there is always a tool to deal with the opponent you face. This guiding pricipal and the fact that we have three awesome components to the army which can each be fleshed out to form armies of their own is something that other armies just cant match. Especially given that we can do all three at once. Now all this being said I haven't seen many batreps out of this forum yet so the way that 7th ed. interacts with the Dark Angels specifically should be interesting. Do not be fooled into thinking that Dark Angels are as weak as some would have you believe. When my dark Angels come to the battle they bring the heat. Deathwing, mortis contemptors, Black Knights, Sammael, Nephillim, Banners of Devastation, These are just some of the deadly tools we have in the arsenal.

 

Finally to give you some parting paraphased words from and Honorary Dark Angel William Ernest Hensley:

 

Out of the night that covers me,

      Black as the pit from pole to pole,

We thank the Emperor's delivery

      For my unconquerable soul.

 

In the fell clutch of circumstance

      I have not winced nor cried aloud.

Under the bludgeonings of chance

      My head is bloody, but unbowed.

[HsojVvad]

HsojVvad, you are my hero, can i build i shrine in your honour?

Ah, thank you.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Nox,

 

I can't really add much to the discussion that hasn't been brought up already. I will say after reading your desire to have a group of battle brothers who are "competitors" to your RG I would say DA fit that asthetic perfectly. When I play DA I never ever add allies. They are DA. They show up they do their job and they leave. No sticking around. No waiting on the Army etc. They are their to fulfill their mission whatever THEY decide that is and then leave. To me it seems to make perfect sense depending on how your RG are. A group dedicated to the Imperium that expects them to participate like everything one else would be more than a little upset at the DA thinking they are "traitor" etc.

 

Me personally I've tried reading the Horus Heresy books about DA and they are painful for me to get through. Then the newer renditions came out with ADB and the short stories like Savage weapons etc. The small parts of Unremembered Empire that the DA are in all really give me what I believe to be the perfect DA vibe. They are no doubt here to defend the Imperium. But don't you question how they do it. They are some of the most effective but man are they brutal if you don't follow along with their plans.

 

Last two things. As you have stated all of B&C is a great forum to be a part of but I must agree with my bretheren here that the DA subforum seems to be the most "family" like. Others I've asked for advice and it varies on the amount of help however I've always found what I needed for my DA in here. And to finish up the DV set is great if you plan on using the Chaos mini's at all (I also built a Crimson Slaughter army, awaiting my escort to Cell 42) but ebay is where I managed to pick up about 120 termi's for around $160 so saved a ton of money. Highly recommend it for termi's at least. Also good for the Nephilim and Dark Talonas most people don't play them and I got a two for one sale on mine.

 

DoC

[Noxnoctis22]

Well I read the DA codex front to back and read most of what [removed link to potentially unsafe website] has to offer in regards to DA (It's informative and fun to read, if you haven't given it a look give it a try) and I'm completely sold on DA. All of the posts here just reaffirmed that I was making the right choice. Any other suggestions of website I should visit for some more DA info?

 

As for where to start, we've already covered that the DV Box Set is a good place to start for DA, here's to hoping that there's a DV Box Set with the 7th E mini rulebook on the way. The DA Battleforce seems a bit strange as it only catering to the Ravenwing side of things and I'm more of a Deathwing guy. Granted I'll give Ravenwing a shot but Terminators are one of the reasons DA was a choice for me.

 

I have some units from my RG army that I'm not fielding anymore and I was wondering if they'd work in a DA army. I have the Dreadnought (MM & CCW) and 5 Terminators from the AOBR box set and a SM Command Squad. Could I just repaint them and use them with DA?

 

Damn, I'm looking forward to the DA stuff!

[Brother dean]

Yes, you do not need specific icons for our units.  All the AoBR and generic units can be painted as us.  

 

I would say to get the Terminator strikeforce that came out yesterday and sell the Stormraven for a box of Deathwing Command just for the bits to spread around the rest of the units.

 

And LRC...  Always LRC.

 

See also Lexicanum:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels#.U4vMHPldWSo

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Once again Brother Dean (I gotta ask is it like the sausage?) has great ideas and good info.

 

Nox, I was similar and still am not a huge fan of Ravenwing but what I've found is our Codex at larger points plays just like the fluff funny enough. What I mean by that is I usually take one or two Full Ravenwing Assault Squads with Speeder and Attack Bike. I give all the bikes melta or Multi Melta and the Speeder a HF and MM. I combat squad the regular bikes and usually outflank the Attack Bike. Since all our bikes have teleport homers I scout them into one of three things A.) A good place to Deepstrike my Termi's if they Don't have Belial who doesn't scatter anyway B.) A good place to get a nice shot on Tanks hopefully for a good anti armor strike C.) A good out of cover spot so they can counter attack in a few turns.

 

Splitting the bikes up since they are Toughness 5 isn't usually a huge issue if you use good placement and cover and then just like the book says Bring your Termi's in to gut your enemy or at the very least cause a major distraction. The Speeder I've seen a lot of people use the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolters but I like MM and HF that way it can help tank hunt or if there are no armor I can usually fry a squad in cover (scouts or firewarriors are perfect for this) and my investment is quite versatile.

 

There are people who like using Speeders as long range support as well just understand if you deepstrike it like I do it will die no if ands or buts.

All this is to say the Battleforce was a perfect buy for me as I got pretty much all the bikes I use after buying it and two boxes of Ravenwing Black Knights. All terminator is doable but not an easy army to learn with and my biggest problem was anti tank at range since my CML's failed me..........constantly.

 

Anyway good luck and ask more and varied questions in here we will throw out what we can.

[Brother dean]

Yes, yes it is...  Although my mum said it was for James Dean the actor and Dean Martin the actor/singer.

 

I played all of the last DA codex with a primarily Deathwing army.  This codex has been primarily Ravenwing...  IDK why it worked out that way...   And I am wishlisting for that box so I can bring my DW up to a "full" 100.