Defiler glory

[FeelNoShane]

So... I just noticed a defiler can be equipped with a reaper autocannon, a battle cannon, 2 Power Fists, and 2 havoc launchers. So tasty after equipping it with warpflame gargoyles. Me like.

[the jeske]

not at the same time . and considering it costs like a land raider and almost like a WK/riptide , it is far away from time when it was glorious[which was 3 editions ago].

[minigun762]

It did get an overall durability boost but at the cost of it's cannon being worse against armor.

[incinerator950]

I forgot to ask, does snapfire still cripple it with that cannon?  I'm aware that the bc probably got worse with the vehicle buff, but the Defiler might be a little tougher.

At this rate they need a dataslate just to helbrute it out of crappyness into mediocrity/useful support.  Just being able to remove the BC alone might help it.

[Sception]

And the durability boost isn't anything like what its cousine the soul grinder got. AV13 just benefits more from the new vehicle damage chart than AV12. AV12, even with 4 hull points, can still just have those hull points stripped too easily.

 

Also, if you fire the battle cannon, you cannot fire havoc launchers.

 

The defiler is still bad. It's been bad since the 4e CSM codex. It's marginally less bad with the new damage chart, but not enough less bad to not still be solidly bad.

[FeelNoShane]

Jeske it comes stock with 2 power fists, a battle cannon, reaper autocannon, and a TL heavy flamer. I sub a havoc for the flamer and take another havoc and equip it with warpflame from the vehicle equipment list. Totally legal at the same time. It's a great vehicle walking down the field overpowering a unit with firepower.

Rules for walker state I can fire all weapons at full BS. Not snap fire.

[Sception]

Again, you cannot fire the havoc launchers and the Battle Cannon at the same time. The battle cannon is an ordinance weapon, you can only snap fire other weapons when you shoot it. Havoc launchers are blast weapons, and you cannot snap fire blast weapons.

 

Maybe if you could trade the battle cannon for being 60 points cheaper, we'd have something to talk about. Or maybe if it were front armor 13. Maybe, maybe, maybe, if, if, if. But no.

[FeelNoShane]

Vehicles fire based on how far a vehicle has moved rather than the type of weapon used. Pg 150. They fire all weapons at full BS. Not snapfire.

[incinerator950]

Heh, I just thought of a Defiler variant that lost its battle cannon and gained two bale flamers in place of the Auto/heavy flamer. 

God I need to stop thinking.

[FeelNoShane]

Pg 150. The notable exception is ordinance weapons. I concede.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Malisteen is correct. Ordnance weapons state that all other weapons snapfire, first thing I checked with my local blueshirt last sat

[FeelNoShane]

Ok so i can nullify the Battle Cannon and shoot everything at full BS.

 

Now I can equip it with a reaper (for longer range soul blaze than a heavy flamer), 2 havocs, and 2 power fists.

 

Thanks for the helps folks

[totgeboren]

Or you could use it for close combat. It doesn't care about cover all that much as it is a daemon anyway, it got fleet and it's better in close combat than a Maulerfiend.

I dunno, maybe just use the ordnance if these are big blobs of enemy infantry that you can shoot, otherwise simply run full speed at the enemy and smash them to bits.

Still, for the cost it should have the same AV as the Soulgrinder.

[Sception]

Considering it costs about twice the points of a mauler, and the mauler is much faster, I don't thing a dedicated melee defiler really compares.

[totgeboren]

Yeah I definitely agree. I just don't get what Phil Kelly was thinking? Though judging by the Soul Grinder it looks like he and Cruddace noticed that mistake.

[incinerator950]

As one who's run around looking for Defiler uses outside of just kitbashing to make your own Soul Grinder, it's basically either leaving it vanilla, add a dirge, or just configure it to the extra CCW, optionally adding the Power Scourge.  The problem is the upgrades for the Defiler aren't cheap, and if you're adding a TLLC, why not just take a predator with las cannons (cheaper and has more)?  If you want the warpflame dakka route, you're still better off with a ac/hb predator with combi bolter, havoc launcher, and gargoyles.  Hell, I don't remember if the FF can take vehicle upgrades but the Plasma head with two hacs would be better.

The Defiler is simply a byproduct of laziness/lack of caring and grandfathering rules because they didn't know what to do with it when putting the Mauler/Forge fiend in.  That being said, if you're taking a melee Defiler, taking a Maulerfiend as a supporting battlebuddy is also a decent idea, just price deficiency to the point of ineffectiveness.  You're absolutely better off with a Brass Scorpion, which is the other kitbash recommendation. 

[FeelNoShane]

Okay so here's the deal I have 4 defilers, 2 preditors with all lascannons and a maulerfiend. That's why I was thinking defilers. I'm short on money long on defilers.

[incinerator950]

Try and carefully deconstruct them to make a Brass Scorpion?  Or tear their tops off and put Demons.  Or Shelve them until GW decides to stop intentionally putting Chaos Marines down.

[minigun762]

I'd run the Defilers as Soul Grinders, easy count as in my opinion.

[FeelNoShane]

Thanks fellas ill draw something up.

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

The cheap, 4 DCCW Defiler is one of the few things I miss about the "Gavdex." I haven't brought my big guys out for a long time now.

[FeelNoShane]

Check them out in my list here. Thanks for the help.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289846-2500pt-tournament-in-august-iron-warriors-go/?do=findComment&comment=3698695

[Slayer le Boucher]

The cheap, 4 DCCW Defiler is one of the few things I miss about the "Gavdex." I haven't brought my big guys out for a long time now.

Yup, i'm in the same boat.

 

The new rules they did asquire are a nice plus, but a price hick from 150pts, where it was usable, and 195pts where its too darn costy, is killing it.

 

Think i have more chances to ally in 2 Heralds, 10 deamons and a Soul Grinder.

[the jeske]

back then we didn't think about them as cheap . But anyway . Counts as soul grinders , take unbound or take them as ally .

[Sception]

That, or just accept that they aren't very good and run them anyway. You don't have to trick yourself into think a unit is better than it is to run it on the table. It's ok to admit a model's rules are kinda bad and run it anyway because you like the model or the fluff.