Anti-Tank in 7th edition ?

[MagicMan]

Ive been playing against a Guard opponent recently who takes all tanks pretty much.

 

In a 1000 point game, he takes 3 Chimeras, 2 Russes, and a few Artillery pieces and the 3 Lascannon flyer thingy. These usually start in a carpark formation in a corner of the board, and spread out mid-game when his weight of fire begins to tell. The plane comes on later and attacks my tanks, usually.

 

So far ive been doing alright, but i take generally balanced lists.

 

Using Codex SM, 1000 points, what would you guys suggest against this sort of army? It seems hard to get in enough units to fight his army, really. Pretty suprised how many tanks the IG can fit in.

[GreyCrow]

 

minigun thats a waste for a large blast for 1 hp stripped when for just a bit more points i can have 4 tank hunting lascannons on a IF dev squad. Or a sicarin tank to plink away hp with ease. I really feel that krak missiles are not worth taking anymore, since they cannot 1 shot a vehicle (besides opened top) and dont have the rate of fire to strip hp away.

I'd agree that a brace of lascannons would be superior but it's another effective use for an already flexible unit.

Just for comparison, one Demolisher hit will damage AV14 75% of the time whereas a Lascannon hit will damage the same AV14 33% of the time so it's not a horrible chance

 

 

And besides, it's probably easier to score a hit on a large blast model with 2d6-4 scatter (including a 33% chance of direct hits on the scatter dice) than even at Ballistic skill 4 for Lascannons.

 

Besides, if you don't score a hit, it's likely you'll hit something else with a large blast, which is always fun :D

[minigun762]

Ive been playing against a Guard opponent recently who takes all tanks pretty much.

 

In a 1000 point game, he takes 3 Chimeras, 2 Russes, and a few Artillery pieces and the 3 Lascannon flyer thingy. These usually start in a carpark formation in a corner of the board, and spread out mid-game when his weight of fire begins to tell. The plane comes on later and attacks my tanks, usually.

 

So far ive been doing alright, but i take generally balanced lists.

 

Using Codex SM, 1000 points, what would you guys suggest against this sort of army? It seems hard to get in enough units to fight his army, really. Pretty suprised how many tanks the IG can fit in.

Against IG, the basic Tactical Marine has everything you need for killing their units. Don't need to worry about fancy upgrades, just numbers.

 

Some melta in drop pods can go after the most valuable targets but probably won't get them all unless you go full drop pod.

[Tiger9gamer]

Also, maybe take a look at Rapier defence platforms. they are pretty cheap and they come with a TL ordinance lascannon. you can have 3 of them for 30 points more than the lascannon dev squad (and they are artillery!)

 

 

only downside is the 36" range, but maybe there are some ways around it.

[minigun762]

Also, maybe take a look at Rapier defence platforms. they are pretty cheap and they come with a TL ordinance lascannon. you can have 3 of them for 30 points more than the lascannon dev squad (and they are artillery!)

 

 

only downside is the 36" range, but maybe there are some ways around it.

Which source book has the entry for them?

[Emperors Immortals]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Space_Marine_Rapier.pdf

 

It's a good unit, I usually take 2 in a battery.

 

There are so many oats I wanted to "like" but I blew them all in the BA forum.

 

For BA at least, onE of the good antiAV options is still the attack bike MultiMelta. Cheap, reliable and hard to kill.

 

Thanks to CaptIdaho, I've swapped my Stern squad for an honour guard and am pleased with the result, especially since I can do FNP 4x melts/plasma.

 

Magic man think about the bikes man!

[incinerator950]

I hope the Mayhem Pack makes a difference in 7th against armor.  Deepstriking is nowhere near as good as having a drop pod (moreso because we don't have goddamn beacons), but 3 multi-meltas to the face on dreadnoughts has got to count. 

[minigun762]

I hope the Mayhem Pack makes a difference in 7th against armor. Deepstriking is nowhere near as good as having a drop pod (moreso because we don't have goddamn beacons), but 3 multi-meltas to the face on dreadnoughts has got to count.

Absolutely. Don't forget RAC either. 6 TL'd S7 shots will yield 5+ hits which is enough to wreck rear armor AV10.

[incinerator950]

That's true, I merely keep my points down by not taking upgrades on mine, and if I do, it'll be heavy flamers.  Although two of my brutes are DV ones so I have to create some Autocannons for them. 

[Sheesh Mode]

In my experience as a Khornate Black Legion player assault is the most reliable means of eliminating large groups of tanks and infantry. Backed up by large groups of cultists it's difficult to prioritize targets when they are all within 12 inches on turn 2. Hopefully this heavy mech edition will make assault more viable, I have never found tanks to be a good option for the 12" range that is assault. It's too small for all those metal boxes to maneuver and find proper firing lanes. 

[Axagoras]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Space_Marine_Rapier.pdf

 

It's a good unit, I usually take 2 in a battery.

 

There are so many oats I wanted to "like" but I blew them all in the BA forum.

 

For BA at least, onE of the good antiAV options is still the attack bike MultiMelta. Cheap, reliable and hard to kill.

 

Thanks to CaptIdaho, I've swapped my Stern squad for an honour guard and am pleased with the result, especially since I can do FNP 4x melts/plasma.

 

Magic man think about the bikes man!

Those are old rules, there in IA 2v2 and are a melta bomb cheaper with the lascannons.

 

Also you mean a command squad right (or a BA honor guard?)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, having two completely different power armor squads with the same name was probably a bad idea on the part of GW. . .

[minigun762]

Feels like the little melta bomb upgrade is getting to be a better value all the time.

[incinerator950]

Indeed, too bad I can't give them to possessed.

[Schultzhoffen]

X3 multi melts attack bikes work wonders, I have found.

 

The rapier layers are good, too, though...

[Strazhakov]

Fo Chaos I really like 5man Raptor Squads with maxed out Meltaguns. Relatively cheap, mobile and reliable. Melta Bikers are probably better pointswise but I'll never be a fan of Astartes on Bikes. Meh.

[minigun762]

I think I might just bring a melta command squad with an attached HQ with a combi melta.

5-6 melta shots, one at BS5, should be enough to wreck most anything. And unlike SG, I can melta another target next turn.

[Axagoras]

I think I might just bring a melta command squad with an attached HQ with a combi melta.

5-6 melta shots, one at BS5, should be enough to wreck most anything. And unlike SG, I can melta another target next turn.

Sternguard can take 2 melta guns along with the combi weapons but yea for a melta torpedo a command squad is the best cost effective way to deliver melta to the target (20 points cheaper then SG for 5 guys with 5 melta guns... and can take 5 flamers as well to cover all targets :3

[GreyCrow]

 

I think I might just bring a melta command squad with an attached HQ with a combi melta.

5-6 melta shots, one at BS5, should be enough to wreck most anything. And unlike SG, I can melta another target next turn.

Sternguard can take 2 melta guns along with the combi weapons but yea for a melta torpedo a command squad is the best cost effective way to deliver melta to the target (20 points cheaper then SG for 5 guys with 5 melta guns... and can take 5 flamers as well to cover all targets :3

 

 

Awesome points man ! I've never thought about equipping a command squad with 2 special weapons as I was convinced that it would only be the boltgun that you could change for a special and not the CCW as well !

 

That makes 175 points of doom...

[minigun762]

Greycrow, Do you mean Command Squad or Sternguard?

[GreyCrow]

For the command squad !

 

The special wepaon entry states that you can swap them for either the boltguns or the melee weapon. And the veterans of the command squad, armed with BP/CCW can exchange their bolt pistol for a boltgun. With a boltgun and a CCW, they can exchange both for special weapons.

 

You can actually make a dual melta command squad running at 200 points. That's 10 melta shots per voley. Talk about a deathstar !

EDIT : Wait, my bad, I forgot they could only shoot 1 weapon per shooting phase. Which clearly drives them for a mixed weapon approach.

 

I just imagine a melta/flamer squad running at 175 points. No need for Stormshields to make them more survivable though. In a pod that makes them a 210 points unit of doom that can pretty much erase what you want them to erase in the first turn.

 

I'm so posting that idea on the Salamanders forum, they're going to be happy !

[minigun762]

For the command squad !

 

The special wepaon entry states that you can swap them for either the boltguns or the melee weapon. And the veterans of the command squad, armed with BP/CCW can exchange their bolt pistol for a boltgun. With a boltgun and a CCW, they can exchange both for special weapons.

 

You can actually make a dual melta command squad running at 200 points. That's 10 melta shots per voley. Talk about a deathstar !

EDIT : Wait, my bad, I forgot they could only shoot 1 weapon per shooting phase. Which clearly drives them for a mixed weapon approach.

 

I just imagine a melta/flamer squad running at 175 points. No need for Stormshields to make them more survivable though. In a pod that makes them a 210 points unit of doom that can pretty much erase what you want them to erase in the first turn.

 

I'm so posting that idea on the Salamanders forum, they're going to be happy !

Huh, that's pretty brutal actually especially for Salamanders!

Talk about a true all purpose unit

[GreyCrow]

I think we should add 5 Meltabombs for the squad, just for good measure and in case they survive . That increases the cost to 235pts with a Pod, and that makes 10 S8 Armourbane/Melta attacks on the charge. No Land Raider is going to be safe !

Man, I'm actually considering to run this squad instead of Terminators or AT Vanguard Veterans in my list. That just seems so brutal, I'm speechless literally. It seems so right and so wrong at the same time ! That build runs at 40pts a model, which is exactly the cost of a Terminator Squad, but talk about the nastiness of that dropping in your lines on Turn 1...

The little Command Squad never ceases to amaze me...

@Axagoras, you are a genius !

EDIT : For the Raven Guard and Raven Guard successors or any Chapter using the RG CT, I would probably run them in a Rhino. They probably will be less effective in Turn 1, but if you're running a mechanized army, they'll be a lot more survivable with that Rhino shell, and you'll still be able to cause havoc in Turn 2 and subsequent.

EDIT 2 : I may actually have a game tomorrow where I may get to proxy this squad. I'll tell you guys about it !

[minigun762]

Run them in a Razorback, it might draw more attention from the squad.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys, so I ran that Command Squad loadout in a Pod today in a 1000pts battle against the Sisters of Battle.

 

I would definitely not recommend them in a Pod if geared with 5 Meltas, 5 Flamers and 5 Meltabombs. They just don't have the survivability and as I expected they got wiped out in return fire in Turn 1.

They blew up a Rhino as well as 4 out of 6 Sisters inside that died from the explosion. While it's good, a 235 points unit did kill roughly 100 points worth of models and upgrades, which is not a very good bargain.

 

No need to gear them up like Rambos if you're going for a suicide unit. 5 meltas will do the trick very nicely, and you'll save 50 points. Even then, at 185 points, I feel that it is a very expensive unit to throw away.

However, I'm definitely going to run them in a Rhino geared with all the shinies and give it a go !