Podded anti-tank Alpha Strike ?

[GreyCrow]

Hi guys !

I'm just trying to leverage your knowledge and experience in mauling/annihilating the enemies of the Imperium.

I'm trying to come up with an effective Anti-Tank podded alpha strike unit, that could also damage, but less reliably, infantry.

Its goal is to drop in the face of the enemy and seriously maul a tank, regardless of its size. I don't expect a single unit to blow up a Land Raider, but I want something that, out of a pod, can reliably destroy AV12 3 Hull Points (benchmark for side armour).

The goal is to use it as a big distraction thrown right in the face of the enemy, that will tank fire from the rest of my army. A distraction unit must make a lot of noise on the turn it comes in, so I want it to pop Tanks in a big wazhooo fashion.

It must have the following characteristics :

- Being able to be drop podded

- Having sufficient firepower to reliably destroy an AV12, unless I'm terribly unlucky or if he decides to Jink

- After they've done it deed, it needs to be able to contribute modestly to anti-infantry, not necesarily by shooting, but it can be through assault. I'm not looking for high yield infantry crushing machines, but something I can throw in support of other Infantry models locked in combat to help turn the tide.

- After they have fired, they need to continue to be able to threaten Tanks (combi-meltas are out of the equation), in case I completely miss my first round of fire

- Relative survivability if they don't throw all they've got at it.

To help you thinking, its counterpart as an Anti Infantry Alpha Strike Drop Podded Unit would be the Flamenaught © minigun762 2014, a regular Dreadnaught armed with TL Heavy Flamer and Heavy Flamer in a Drop Pod. This unit will make a very nasty Anti-Infantry Alpha Strike, and I'm looking for its Anti-Tank counterpart.

The rest of the units in my list can take on both Tanks and Infantry, but in my strategy, I'd like early game to run 2 pods that I can choose from : one landing a unit that is heavily geared towards anti-infantry and the other one landing a unit that is heavily geared towards anti-tank.

So far, the most efficient thing that came to mind was a 5-man Melta Command Squad or 4-man Melta with Apotheticary. But I'm open to other equally devastating options, looking for the one my heart will "melt" for

What killing machine comes to your mind ?

[FragEmAll]

I would immediately think sternguard. 5 x Astartes with 1/2 melta guns and the rest combi meltas would be good and would give you the special ammo flexibility to contribute to the wider battle if they survive the alpha strike.

 

The problem with the command squad is that they are limited to a 12" range. At least after the initial strike the sternguard are still useful. the above unit would be 205 pts. the quad melta & apothecary comes to 190 I think so its a bit pricier, less survivable but more useful if they survive retribution.

[tdemayo]

Why are you looking any further than Sternguard with combi-meltas in a pod?  I think that in 7th you will need more meltaguns to reliably destroy a vehicle.  5 should almost certainly kill any tank with 3 hull points.  Then, when the meltas have been expended, the special issue ammunition offers a significant boost against most infantry.

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the suggestions. I won't go with the Sternguard squads with combis simply because if they whiff their 5 shots, they lose their Anti Tank capability. Interesting suggestions though, but I want them to be able to still threaten Tanks (so they're high on the priority list of the enemy) after they fired their initial volley.

 

The 12" range is a very good point. If I had range a tad better, that'd be great :D

[FragEmAll]

that's why I would suggest actual melta guns as well as combi meltas for 2nd turn back up if you survive. though don't forget that if your dice do fail the alpha strike then you are probably dead anyway, as whatever you were aiming at will want a word.....

[minigun762]

No reason to go with SG over Command Squad for melta squads unless you are using a Master or already have a Command Squad.

[GreyCrow]

That's the goal, hehe ;)

 

Basically, in this army, I play with Raven Guard Chapter Tactics. I will be Scouting forward 2 or 3 (depending on the point size) 6 man Tacticals with melta/Veteran with combi-melta/melta bomb and lightning claw in Razorbacks with Lascannons and twin linked Plasma guns.

 

The point of the podded Alpha strike is to put a menacing unit right in the face of the enemy so it can deal a bit of damage to one unit, and that it will continue rampaging if it is not stopped. But if it is stopped (aka, shot at/charged), it will soak a few shots that would have been aimed at either my Razorbacks or my Tacticals. In turn, if my Troops choices are not dealt with, they are geared to dish out the pain (albeit less specialized) to any target the encounter.

 

I have the Flamenaught in a pod for anti-infantry, and I was thinking about having an anti-tank in a pod for anti-tank so I would get to choose which one to use depending on the enemy army.

 

So far, the Melta Command Squad sounds like the most reasonable option, are there any other ? I'd find it cool to have a full Alpha Strike Anti Tank Dreadnought to paralel my Flamenaught, is it possible to have one that dishes as much pain as the Melta Command Squad ?

[minigun762]

For Dreads, you're really limited to two shooting weapons on normal Dreads and four with the Ironclad.

Dual HK Missiles, melta gun and hurricane bolters.

For normal Dreads, multi melta and missile launcher might be best for instant kill. Or assault cannon and TL autocannon for removing hull points.

[GreyCrow]

True, that should be considered as well. A bit less Oomph! than the Melta Command Squad, but a few HP should be removed indeed.

 

Why, oh why, can't we take double meltas on the Ironclad :p

 

From all this discussion, it really appears that effective dedicated Alpha Strike is really expensive in terms of points...

[minigun762]

If it doesn't have to be pod borne, consider dual multi melta speeders or LotD. Speeders probably bring the cheapest multi melta weapon available to SM at 40 ppm

[GreyCrow]

True that, but they are 2nd wave units both. LOTD by default and it's easy to counter deploy from the Speeders.

 

Which is fine and all, but I was looking to investigate the options for a Turn 1 punch. Not trying to completely table my opponent in Turn 1, but trying to see if there was a cost effective way to attract his attention from the rest of my army by severely crippling one of his units.

[minigun762]

True that, but they are 2nd wave units both. LOTD by default and it's easy to counter deploy from the Speeders.

 

Which is fine and all, but I was looking to investigate the options for a Turn 1 punch. Not trying to completely table my opponent in Turn 1, but trying to see if there was a cost effective way to attract his attention from the rest of my army by severely crippling one of his units.

In that regard, my advice would be a full ten man Sternguard squad. Five combi melta in one combat squad and two heavy flamer in the other. Only one pod but that's an easy way to get it on turn one.

[GreyCrow]

Interesting point ! It's true that you save on one Pod and open a nasty front. I always forget about the heavy flamers on the Sternguards :p

 

That can work as a generalist alpha strike unit, although we're losing on anti-tank capability in later turns. Perhaps it's worth it to consider 2HF, 2MG and 3CMG as Fragemal suggested ? We lose on 4 SIA for sure, but it could be worth it as a sustained threat.

[minigun762]

Truthfully I think a simple melta bomb would be sufficient for later turn anti tank unless you're going up against a triple Land Raider list but then again we can't rely on a 300 point unit to handle nearly 800 points of heavy armor.

 

If you have the points for three pod units, this SG squad would be great support for either the melta command squad or Flamenought.

[tdemayo]

Thanks for the suggestions. I won't go with the Sternguard squads with combis simply because if they whiff their 5 shots, they lose their Anti Tank capability. Interesting suggestions though, but I want them to be able to still threaten Tanks (so they're high on the priority list of the enemy) after they fired their initial volley.

 

The 12" range is a very good point. If I had range a tad better, that'd be great :D

Well, they will undoubtably whiff every so often. This IS a dice game. But five melta shots is statistically pretty reliable. Also, if they wiff (or even if they don't) the stern guard are unlikely to survive return fire anyway. Neither is any unit dropped alone into enemy lines. I would not let that alone prevent you from using them.

[aceytrixx]

My planned alpha strike for tonight (since super heavies seem to be more common know) is 2 5 melta gun command squads and another squad of Sternguard for anti infantry along with a tac squad for objective grabbing. I should point out I'm using vulkan so 10 twin linked melta shots should drop two tanks or really make sure that one nasty one is gone

[Captain Idaho]

If you consider the points costs of Sternguard and Command squads, you can take in their place a full Tactical squad with melta and combi melta. Less dangerous to tanks on land but more survivable and just as likely to be the attention of your opponents.

[markham82]

I might have missed it, but it looks like you can now do blessings on the turn you arrive from reserve.

So get Tiggy in a unit of tacs in a droppod(for survivability,meatshields) and generate his powers from biomancy and try and get endurance( not a long shot) and a dev squad with 4multimeltas in a droppod. The devs have better melta range( scatter can be a ) and endurance means they're shooting at full bs, they have eternal warrior so no id, better survivability due to fnp, and if they get charged they have smash(ap2, so give the sarge a sword)

[Cornelias]

I use a sternguard squad supported by an ironclad podded in first turn, using Sicarius you can also reliably deploy a tac squad where you need it to be that can fire from the first turn, LSS with multimelta either taken with some suicide scouts (melta bomb and combi melta) or with a sniper squad and deployed on it's own, the infiltration can give you the edge. Large AV tanks are something you really need to sneak up on you can bet your opponent will be fiercely protective of them and look to destroy anything that threatens them quickly.

[Stercus]

Five man devastator squad with multimeltas. Land that in the enemy backfield and you can dissolve just about anything.

Haven't got the codex to hand, but I don't think it's much different in points to a tooled up sternguard squad.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Five man devastator squad with multimeltas. Land that in the enemy backfield and you can dissolve just about anything.

Haven't got the codex to hand, but I don't think it's much different in points to a tooled up sternguard squad.

 

That's a horrible idea, slightly less so if He'stan is present.  Snapfiring those multimeltas, even with master-crafted, will get you one, maybe two hits on average dice.  Five combi-meltas should land three or four.

[Stercus]

I hadn't considered the impact of snapfiring. May need to think further on this.

 

Ok, would chapter tactics: Ultramarines let you use devastator discipline to go relentless first turn?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No, because their Chapter Tactic specifies that Relentless does not apply if you disembarked from a vehicle that turn.

[GreyCrow]

You could always get a Psyker rolling on Biomancy to try and give them Endurance (Relentless). You have roughly 33% chance of getting it with your ML2 Librarian, and roughly 50% with Tigurius.

 

That's a huge bet that I'm not willing to take, but more power to you if you try :D