M'Aidez

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Hey. I'm about to kick off my Chaos Undivided army, but I cannot decide on a Legion/Warband. I'm hoping you guys can help me decide

 

My frontrunners so far are Night Lords, Black Legion or Word Bearers, in that order. 

 

Black Legion

 

Pros - Insanely easy paint-scheme (this is important because I am a crazy-lazy painter). Would tie in potentially with the Traitor Guard I'm also working on (in Apocalypse). 

Cons - Chaos Ultramarines. Have sizeable DC army already and BT army on the way. Lot of black in my collection already.

 

Word Bearers

 

Pros - I've pretty much always wanted a Word Bearer's army. I love (almost all of) the fluff. Erebus. Ties in with TG and Daemons.

Cons - Red. I already have a big Blood Angels army and I'm working on a Khorne army. Sick of red. Primarch was a bit of a gimp.

 

Night Lords

 

Pros - Awesome paint scheme. Like the fluff a lot. I think I can do a passable NL scheme in only four steps (prime black, drybrush Deathly Nightshade equivalent, wash Nuln Oil, details) and reserve lightning for Champions/Characters. 

Cons - Paint scheme might be too ambitious for my aptitude and talent. Every Chaos WIP on here is seemingly NL. Would require buying Hell Talons and Hell Talons are hella-expensive.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Given how poo the CSM codex is, I'm also thinking of running them as 'counts-as' Space Marines. Black Legion would be smurfs or IF, Word Bearers would probably be Black Templars (for marine squads with a wall of squishies for cover) with Allies for Pyker shenanigans. Night Lords, I don't know. White Scars, maybe.   

 

Might seem like a cop-out but for most of my 40k career I've played BA and Tyranids, so adopting another sub-standard book doesn't really appeal. That said, I'm not a tournament player so maybe it isn't so important that CSM is kinda poo. 

 

EDIT - Running them as 'counts-as' Space Marines means I'd be able to legally ally them with the TG, too. 

 

Over to you, frater. Help me make my mind up, please.

[Yogi]

Which is to you the coolest primarch/fluff?

 

Horus/bl

Lorgar/wb

Kurze/nl

 

Answer = choice

 

IMO

[Scribe]

 

Word Bearers

 

Primarch was a bit of a gimp.

 

 

Behind the times brother. Lorgar rocks face.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Perhaps I am behind the times. I'm about ten books behind in the Horus Heresy series (and have read none of the 30k books), but what I've read so far makes Lorgar seem kinds weak and pathetic.

 

Other than what I've read about him in the HH, Lorgar is my favourite primarch of the three. I don't know much about Kurze, but I despise Horus. Weaker even than Lorgan, on the facts to hand (which might be outdated). However, I'd take Erebus over all three of them. Erebus is without doubt my favourite character in all of 40k. But Word Bearers are red and I'm entirely and utterly sick of red. 

 

Doing Word Bearers means my Daemons can't be red, which might not be a bad thing given how much Khorne daemons suck, but does mean I've wasted money on Khârn and two boxes of Berzerkers. Can't incorporate Khârn and Berzerkers because I am planning on lots of psykers. I could incorporate them as an Assault-leaning element of the Host, however... Two Coteries and a Lord... Hmmm....

 

All things being equal, it's Word Bearers hands-down. Really, really, really, really, sick of painting red though. Cannot stress that enough. 

[Forté]

Seen as you don't like the Chaos Codex it'll be a waste of time doing Word Barers or Black Legion as both use daemons and daemon engines. Which leave Night Lords as you're only real choice.

 

Or you could look at the Horus Heresy system from Forge World which focuses on the Legions as they were.

 

But hey, "given how poo" our Codex is, you may as well stick with the flash toys and bland flavour of the Imperial Codex. I'm sorry to phrase it like that but asking for input from a group of people who use the Codex that you also insult at the same time really isn't the best way to start a conversation is it ;)

[Shuggnuggath]

Have you considered Iron Warriors? They are neither black or red and should be comparatively easy to paint.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Seen as you don't like the Chaos Codex it'll be a waste of time doing Word Barers or Black Legion as both use daemons and daemon engines. Which leave Night Lords as you're only real choice.

Or you could look at the Horus Heresy system from Forge World which focuses on the Legions as they were.

But hey, "given how poo" our Codex is, you may as well stick with the flash toys and bland flavour of the Imperial Codex. I'm sorry to phrase it like that but asking for input from a group of people who use the Codex that you also insult at the same time really isn't the best way to start a conversation is it

I fail to see why anyone would be insulted. It's a reflection on the book, not the people who use it. C:CSM is far from a top-tier book. That's just a fact.

Have you considered Iron Warriors? They are neither black or red and should be comparatively easy to paint.

I had not, no. I do love the Warpsmith miniature, though. Off to Lexicanum I go...

[Forté]

No but there are a lot of people who don't care about how powerful or what tier a codex is and to assume that people who make certain armies automatically refer to their codex as "poo" because it's not considered a top tier codex is pretty insulting personally.

 

And if you just want top tier the go look at Daemons.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

No but there are a lot of people who don't care about how powerful or what tier a codex is and to assume that people who make certain armies automatically refer to their codex as "poo" because it's not considered a top tier codex is pretty insulting personally.

 

And if you just want top tier the go look at Daemons.

 

Ok then. I'm looking for a top-tier army is what you've taken from my posts, is it? 

 

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning. Go find something to be offended about somewhere else.

 

Toodles. 

[Kol Saresk]

By Hell Talons, I assume you are referring to Warp Talons, the "Possessed Raptors"? Why do you have to have them for Night Lords, just out of curiosity?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

By Hell Talons, I assume you are referring to Warp Talons, the "Possessed Raptors"? Why do you have to have them for Night Lords, just out of curiosity?

 

No, I mean Hell Talons. The FW Flyer.

 

I don't see Night Lords going in for Heldrakes.

[Tenebris]

Hmm I think it is still the classic urban legend that Night Lords are a Raptor/Warp Talon legion... I will never understand it myself why it is so bar that it was a rule in the 3,5 which people took as granted for the Night Lords...

 

But:

 

1. You say that you want to play the loyalist codex... so why in bloody hell are you here asking things.

 

2. If background seems to you the only viable thing that we of Chaos can provide... well feel free to pick the one you prefer. But by stating this in the first post you effectively insult the Chaos faction as an army or armies.

 

Said that since you want to go undivided I have some advice:

 

- Word Bearers work very well with the new Daemonology as a theme, but hell you are playing loyalists so why bother with chaos in the first place.

 

- Black Legion is nice and easy to paint...

 

- I would go with Alpha Legion since they still have mostly a loyalist look and you can proxy them with the loyalist kits... 

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I said I was "thinking of" running them as counts-as C:SM. That's all. 

 

No need for panties to become knotted.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Is it somehow news that C:CSM isn't very good? 

 

It doesn't seem like it, every other thread in this sub-forum is whining (incessantly) about how bad the book is. 

[Forté]

 

 

No but there are a lot of people who don't care about how powerful or what tier a codex is and to assume that people who make certain armies automatically refer to their codex as "poo" because it's not considered a top tier codex is pretty insulting personally.

 

And if you just want top tier the go look at Daemons.

Ok then. I'm looking for a top-tier army is what you've taken from my posts, is it?

 

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning. Go find something to be offended about somewhere else.

 

Toodles.

You're the one who mentioned "top tier" in your post so but that I took it that you are looking for an "upper tier, not necessarily top but one that will still get me win with out me having to really work for it".

 

And as you can tell by others posts I am not the only one who doesn't like people calling the codex I chose to use "poo" and go and get my "knickers in a twist" about it because "Slaanesh had taken the jam from my doughnut this morning".

 

So please. If you want actual constructive input and responses. Don't start a thread with put downs in the first post and respond with insults.

 

What I do suggest is taking a look at the descriptions of the Chaos warbands and renegades (not just the main known ones) as there may be others that suit what you are looking for much better because more than anything it seems like you want to be painting something that isn't Imperial but not wanting to really jump into Chaos. So maybe a renegade Chapter may suit what you are looking for much better.

 

And as you said very dismissively (and childishly too)

http://cmsip.tradus.ibcdn.com/TKBMP1ON3ZTVMHTQ_4638493_-1x-1.jpg

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

 

 

No but there are a lot of people who don't care about how powerful or what tier a codex is and to assume that people who make certain armies automatically refer to their codex as "poo" because it's not considered a top tier codex is pretty insulting personally.

 

And if you just want top tier the go look at Daemons.

Ok then. I'm looking for a top-tier army is what you've taken from my posts, is it?

 

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning. Go find something to be offended about somewhere else.

 

Toodles.

You're the one who mentioned "top tier" in your post so but that I took it that you are looking for an "upper tier, not necessarily top but one that will still get me win with out me having to really work for it".

 

And as you can tell by others posts I am not the only one who doesn't like people calling the codex I chose to use "poo" and go and get my "knickers in a twist" about it because "Slaanesh had taken the jam from my doughnut this morning".

 

So please. If you want actual constructive input and responses. Don't start a thread with put downs in the first post and respond with insults.

 

What I do suggest is taking a look at the descriptions of the Chaos warbands and renegades (not just the main known ones) as there may be others that suit what you are looking for much better because more than anything it seems like you want to be painting something that isn't Imperial but not wanting to really jump into Chaos. So maybe a renegade Chapter may suit what you are looking for much better.

 

Ah. I see. You didn't read my post properly and are holding what you think I said against me. Gotcha.

 

I again fail to see how anything I've said has been an insult.

[Vesper]

If you tried to do something in French for the title, it could've turned out a bit better . But hey.
Anyhow, I think your view is not up to date on the Black Legion (and them being more or less Chaos Ultramarines).

First off, they're not SoH in black. They spit on Horus' memory that shames them. There is still a core of former SoH, but actually everyone willing to join the Black Legion and to swear loyalty to Abaddon can take the black.

More than any legion / warband in the Eye, the Black Legion is the top dog.

"My Legion bears no number – it was not founded by the Emperor and it never fought at his side. We were born in the centuries after those days of defeat. Numbers were only bestowed upon the Legions of the Great Crusade. We are the Legion of the Long War."

They are the guys who keep the Long War alive, and actively fight the Imperium with a purpose. They also are the most coherent and numerous fighting force in the Eye. Having ten times the numbers of the Word Bearers. That also means that everything is fluffy when you build a BL army, because they get every toy other warbands/Legions have.

Abaddon is their absolute leader and he's the dude that will likely bring them back to Terra, to finish the job.

You should check the Black Legion supplement, for more stuff on them. Cool stuff. Then, AD-B is also behind a Black Legion series supposed to start soon (the first book, The Talon of Horus, is done and will probably hit the shelves in a matter of months). You can also get a small short story about the Black Legion from the Black Library advent calendar thingy.

[Captain Semper]

I think Black Legion maybe the way to go. Since your question is predominantly background/modelling driven (as I understand you'll not be using the Chaos Codex to play them) I have to say that black is as easy or as difficult a colour as you wish it. Also Black Legion has a number of sub-sects (dedicated to different Gods) and splinter forces that could allow for a polychromatic approach - depending again on your whim...

 

The Black Legion Supplement has a lot of food for thought with some interesting examples of alternative aproaches; you may even go for Legion colours (True Sons or Wolves of Horus anyone? ;) ) The supplement also has some interesting rules and a lot of background that may increase their appeal to your eyes...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

For Black Legion, I was thinking just a drybrush of a dark grey, then Nuln Oil wash. Boltgun Metal trim, gold for HQs. Needs to be super-simple or I'll get discouraged and nothing will get done. 

 

Again, still haven't decided on a Codex. 

 

Will check out the supplement, thanks Cap'n,

[Forté]

Ok. Going back to basics and ignoring plenty of other stuff.

 

You mentioned Traitor Guard. You can now do that using the Unbound option rather than just plumbing for apocalypse only. And a good legion to go with those is Alpha Legion due to how manipulative they are. It's also easy to justify using the Imperial codex with them and even if you wanted, plenty of Imperial model parts.

[DoomulusPrime]

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning.

 

It's more likely Slaanesh filled his previously-plain doughnuts with his own special "jam," I mean, (s)he is a freak after all...

[incinerator950]

I think Black Legion maybe the way to go. Since your question is predominantly background/modelling driven (as I understand you'll not be using the Chaos Codex to play them) I have to say that black is as easy or as difficult a colour as you wish it. Also Black Legion has a number of sub-sects (dedicated to different Gods) and splinter forces that could allow for a polychromatic approach - depending again on your whim...

The Black Legion Supplement has a lot of food for thought with some interesting examples of alternative aproaches; you may even go for Legion colours (True Sons or Wolves of Horus anyone? ) The supplement also has some interesting rules and a lot of background that may increase their appeal to your eyes...

If you opt the Thrice-Cursed route, remember they're self-exiled Sons of Horus, not Black Legion traitors. They refuse to follow Abbadon out of Fealty to Horus or spite, but you can opt to just use any rules besides BL for them. Also I'm mentioning this as clarification.

[Smurfalypse]

Perhaps I am behind the times. I'm about ten books behind in the Horus Heresy series (and have read none of the 30k books), but what I've read so far makes Lorgar seem kinds weak and pathetic.

 

Other than what I've read about him in the HH, Lorgar is my favourite primarch of the three. I don't know much about Kurze, but I despise Horus. Weaker even than Lorgan, on the facts to hand (which might be outdated). However, I'd take Erebus over all three of them. Erebus is without doubt my favourite character in all of 40k. But Word Bearers are red and I'm entirely and utterly sick of red. 

 

Doing Word Bearers means my Daemons can't be red, which might not be a bad thing given how much Khorne daemons suck, but does mean I've wasted money on Khârn and two boxes of Berzerkers. Can't incorporate Khârn and Berzerkers because I am planning on lots of psykers. I could incorporate them as an Assault-leaning element of the Host, however... Two Coteries and a Lord... Hmmm....

 

All things being equal, it's Word Bearers hands-down. Really, really, really, really, sick of painting red though. Cannot stress that enough. 

 

I run Word Bearers exclusively and I do my Daemons all sorts of different colors.

Horrors - Green, Blue, Pink, Purple, Yellow (my units look like skittles, but I get a good amount of compliments on them)

Plaguebearers - Painted them pretty standard as I have nothing else that looks like them.

Flesh Hounds - Brown, I painted them like Dogs. . .

Herald of Khorne - Okay, I painted him red but nothing else I swear :P

Daemonettes - Skin is light brown (how I likes my women!) and then I did each of their clothes a different color scheme, pretty much same as Horrors (girls would never be caught dead with the same outfit).

 

Point is, yeah, paint your daemons all sorts of different colors. It really goes well with the Red Word Bearers. You could also go back to Pre-Heresy and paint the WB color scheme from that time frame. 

[Forté]

 

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning.

 

It's more likely Slaanesh filled his previously-plain doughnuts with his own special "jam," I mean, (s)he is a freak after all...

But...I never had any doughnuts :cry: (and I'm a he. I've not been blessed in that way yet).

[DoomulusPrime]

 

 

 

Clearly Slaanesh has taken the jam out of your doughnut this morning.

It's more likely Slaanesh filled his previously-plain doughnuts with his own special "jam," I mean, (s)he is a freak after all...

But...I never had any doughnuts :cry: (and I'm a he. I've not been blessed in that way yet).

I was referring to Slaanesh, although I'm sure shim will bless you that way soon enough, seeing as your his biggest devotee on BnC :P

 

You gotta be careful with Chaos doughnuts... Still better then Imperial doughnuts though, I once broke a tooth biting into one Ursarkar Creed made for me, damned if I know how he got that Baneblade inside...