DarkProdigy Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Hello all, First time poster but long time DA player and fan. As I settle into 7th I'm trying to get my head around a tactic I always wanted to try but never gave it a good try. I want to figure out the best way to get a nice big squad of deathwing knights into close combat on turn 1. Basically, I want to use my Caestus Assault Ram with a skyshield landing pad on it with the ready for takeoff rule, 8 deathwing knights, Ezekiel, and a techmarine with PFG on board (yes I know this is like 1000 points on its own). I figure the skyshield can be deployed on deployment zone edge with the Caestus nose up against the line. Caestus must start the turn in hover mode, not a huge issue as I want to disembark anyway and the PFG onboard helps. Move the Caestus off the landing pad 6" (Note that the rules for skimmers say if you are forced to stop your move on a model you nudge over the minimum distance to not be on it) which since the ram is kinda long will actually be closer to a 9-10" move, disembark another 6", and charge the remaining 9 inches? Is this legal to do? And can anyone think of a better way to do it? Understanding that a second turn charge from a land raider is infinitely more reliable, im just trying to figure out any way this is possible more for fun than anything else. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 though not a stickler for rules myself, the action you describe seems pretty shady. Your opponent will be more likely to go along with it as long as you stick to a few principles. 1.) Always designatate the front of the model from the same spot. This will be the area where the models enter and exit from as well as where distances are measured from. 2.) Check the BRB, because I think it may say something about models disembaking from a flying base needing to use the base as point of disembarkment. 3.) Given that the cestus is ~4inches further forward and its base you'll need to make an 8" charge, which is certainly doable. Good luck man let us know how it goes. PS, Ditch the PFG in your equation, if its starting on the landing pad its got a 4+ anyway. While I understand that there is confusion regarding wether the PFG is capable of being used inside vehicles, so maybe your thinking it will make the caestus last longer. NOt sure about that but its possible. Good luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3700621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbenner Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Seems legal but cheesy. It will work against an opponent at most once. I'd practice it locally as much as I can, and then slide it into a tournament. Paul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3700681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I think it's legal, IF it even works. Dark Eldar employ similar tactics given the models are so long, so you start your raiders sideways, pivot at the start of your turn, move your 6" and disembark, and you get like 3" out of it. You still need your opponent to deploy RIGHT at their deployment zone edge and hope they have no successful overwatch kills and you aren't charging through difficult terrain (despite being frag launcher, you still incur the new -2" penalty). I would second Poly's second point about disembarking distance, however when it's in hover mode it takes on the role of a skimmer, so it's not a standard flyer. More to that, I'm not sure you even need the SLP, unless I'm looking at old rules, the Caestus is a Tank/Skimmer/Fast, so it should only ever be in hover mode (obviating the need for the landing pad's rules). I'm unfamiliar with the FW rules or Escalation/Stronghold for that matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3700684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effreem Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I dont know if 7th still says it but 6th says you cannot start flyers on the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3700818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbenner Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Note he's using the Landing Pad Fortification, which changes the previous rule. Paul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3700820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I think it's legal, IF it even works. Dark Eldar employ similar tactics given the models are so long, so you start your raiders sideways, pivot at the start of your turn, move your 6" and disembark, and you get like 3" out of it. You still need your opponent to deploy RIGHT at their deployment zone edge and hope they have no successful overwatch kills and you aren't charging through difficult terrain (despite being frag launcher, you still incur the new -2" penalty). I would second Poly's second point about disembarking distance, however when it's in hover mode it takes on the role of a skimmer, so it's not a standard flyer. More to that, I'm not sure you even need the SLP, unless I'm looking at old rules, the Caestus is a Tank/Skimmer/Fast, so it should only ever be in hover mode (obviating the need for the landing pad's rules). I'm unfamiliar with the FW rules or Escalation/Stronghold for that matter. I think those are old rules Sven. The Caestus in Imperial Armour 2 - 2nd edition, page 144, is "Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport, Tank)". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3704010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Not legal to disembark, move, and charge if the Caestus moved over 6". Even if the movement isn't entirely voluntary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3705567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyBob Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 All fliers disembark from near the flying base. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3709441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 All fliers disembark from near the flying base. yeah but if it's in hover mode it functions as a skimmer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3709444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyBob Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 All fliers disembark from near the flying base. yeah but if it's in hover mode it functions as a skimmer? Stormravens always disembark from the flying base and they hover as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3709471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Not legal to disembark, move, and charge if the Caestus moved over 6". Even if the movement isn't entirely voluntary. Dead issue? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3709481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkProdigy Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Not legal to disembark, move, and charge if the Caestus moved over 6". Even if the movement isn't entirely voluntary. Dead issue?I hadn't thought about that, it does seem to break my initial thought, but the previously mentioned sideways deployment could still work and result in id think about 4 inches of extra ground covered since the caestus base is so far back on the model, it's really heavy on the backend. That would mean deploying with side armor facing which is 13 so not a huge deal. With that it would be deploy sideways on pad and pivot then go only 6" which should just barely clear the pad, disembark 6" and charge 8" or 9" Not as reliable as I'd like, any way anyone can think of to grant the unit fleet? How I wish Ezekiel could take biomancy... Edit: actually does a flyer pivot from its base? Or does it pivot around center point of the hull? If it's base it might even be worth deploying entirely backwards if going first... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3709547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Really sounds beardy. I saw an Ork player once that built a custom battle wagon that was long enough that it would only fit sideways in the deployment zone. Turn 1 he would pivot, move 6 inches forward and disembark his war boss and crew in your deployment zone. While some might say you are not modeling for advantage like he was. I think you are. You are picking a model based on its dimensions specifically to gain the advantage of extra length after a pivot for the sole purpose of robing your opponent of a turn to counter your deathstar. I would hope that the members of this forum would take more after The Lion, instead of employing these methods that lack originality and otherwise besmirch the honor of this great chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291589-dwk-first-turn-charge/#findComment-3711851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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