Ahriman is a murder god!

[daboarder]

Ok Black staff has been FAQ'd

 

 

 

allows Ahriman to attempt to manifest the same Witchfire power up to 3 times per Psychic Phase

Ahriman may know up to 5 witchfires. (tzeench plus 4)

 

Ahriman may cast 15 witchfires a turn, and with the changes to the range of many witchfires in the BRB he can put out some serious hurt with those things.

 

 

He is absolutely brutal now if you have the right warpcharge batteries in your list.

[King Jackal]

4 Heralds of Tzeentch and Kairos + Ahriman?

With Horrors and Thousand Son squad Sorcerers?

Whoa

[Deadman Wade]

I believe psykers can cast the amount of powers equal their level, no? That's 4 psychic powers for Ahriman.

[daboarder]

no, psykers can cast as many powers as they know (each 1 once), usually that is their mastery level but ahriman can cast witchfires multiple times.

[Nehekhare]

vortex.

[daboarder]

to easy to perils, I'd rather drop 3 smites and 3 leach life's and 3 shrieks into a unit. Blasting it and healing nearby units.

 

 

edit: Nehek, you gotta change your sig man.

 

Q: Can Heldrake do as Heldrake pleases?

 

A: No GW has met their sales target for Heldrakes

[Nehekhare]

Nehek, you gotta change your sig man.

 

That is for Heldrake to decide.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I'm pretty sure that it states psykers can only cast a number of powers equal to their mastery level, not equal to the number of powers they have. I don't have the BrB on hand currently to quote a page number.

[daboarder]

I'm pretty sure that it states psykers can only cast a number of powers equal to their mastery level, not equal to the number of powers they have. I don't have the BrB on hand currently to quote a page number.

im telling you it doesnt

 

What it states is

 

 

The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level. Even a Psyker with a Mastery Level of 1 is a fearsome foe. Psykers with a Mastery Level of 4 or higher are incredibly rare, and it is better for the galaxy that this is so – they are almost unbelievably powerful, and rarely submit to any authority other than their own.

 

But All ML is used to determine is how many powers you have, the only actual limitation on casting is

 

 

The most common psychic action is the manifestation of psychic powers. Only the player whose turn it is can attempt to manifest psychic powers. If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.

 

This means that you can cast as many powers as you have dice for, but normally you cant cast the same spell more than once, therefore FUNCTIONALLY most psykers are limited in the number of powers they can attempt by the number of powers they know, which is in turn determined by their mastery level, which ahriman overrides with the black staff

[gargamelgrozni]

it says under Mastery Level ih the Psychic Phase "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" so I would say you cant cast 15 powers but 4

[daboarder]

ok so you depend on your mastery level?

 

How exactly does it state your mastery level limits your powers?

 

Can you cast only half your mastery level?

Your mastery level?

Twice your mastery level?

 

The only limitation is in that second rules quote, and that DOES depend on your mastery level, even what I proposed with ahriman depends on his ML level

[FENRISÚLFUR]

 

I'm pretty sure that it states psykers can only cast a number of powers equal to their mastery level, not equal to the number of powers they have. I don't have the BrB on hand currently to quote a page number.

im telling you it doesnt

 

What it states is

 

 

The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level. Even a Psyker with a Mastery Level of 1 is a fearsome foe. Psykers with a Mastery Level of 4 or higher are incredibly rare, and it is better for the galaxy that this is so – they are almost unbelievably powerful, and rarely submit to any authority other than their own.

 

But All ML is used to determine is how many powers you have, the only actual limitation on casting is

 

 

The most common psychic action is the manifestation of psychic powers. Only the player whose turn it is can attempt to manifest psychic powers. If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.

 

This means that you can cast as many powers as you have dice for, but normally you cant cast the same spell more than once, therefore FUNCTIONALLY most psykers are limited in the number of powers they can attempt by the number of powers they know, which is in turn determined by their mastery level, which ahriman overrides with the black staff

 

 

So what you are saying is that in the first quote where it states " The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" doesn't actually tell us that a Psyker can only use powers equal to his mastery level? Hmm, I guess I'm confused as to why you are saying that they are allowed to cast more powers than their Mastery Level.

 

 The second quote,  " If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows". This should confirm that a Psyker can cast more than one power a turn, but not more than he is allowed by his Mastery level.

 

Pretty clear cut to me...

[daboarder]

 

 

I'm pretty sure that it states psykers can only cast a number of powers equal to their mastery level, not equal to the number of powers they have. I don't have the BrB on hand currently to quote a page number.

im telling you it doesnt

 

What it states is

 

 

The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level. Even a Psyker with a Mastery Level of 1 is a fearsome foe. Psykers with a Mastery Level of 4 or higher are incredibly rare, and it is better for the galaxy that this is so – they are almost unbelievably powerful, and rarely submit to any authority other than their own.

 

But All ML is used to determine is how many powers you have, the only actual limitation on casting is

 

 

The most common psychic action is the manifestation of psychic powers. Only the player whose turn it is can attempt to manifest psychic powers. If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.

 

This means that you can cast as many powers as you have dice for, but normally you cant cast the same spell more than once, therefore FUNCTIONALLY most psykers are limited in the number of powers they can attempt by the number of powers they know, which is in turn determined by their mastery level, which ahriman overrides with the black staff

 

 

So what you are saying is that in the first quote where it states " The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" doesn't actually tell us that a Psyker can only use powers equal to his mastery level? Hmm, I guess I'm confused as to why you are saying that they are allowed to cast more powers than their Mastery Level.

 

 The second quote,  " If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows". This should confirm that a Psyker can cast more than one power a turn, but not more than he is allowed by his Mastery level.

 

Pretty clear cut to me...

 

 

Im saying that when it states the number of powers they use depends on their mastery level it is not giving you enough information to know how they are dependent upon your mastery level.

 

You are assuming that they are limited one to one. I am showing that the limitation is expanded upon in more details in the rules section titled "Manifesting psychic powers"

 

seems pretty clear cut to me.....

[Tenebris]

It is all fairly simple.

 

You choose the Psyker and his Psychic Powers to manifest. If it benefits you more to use all your warp dice on Ahriman then you are free to do it. Which means that he can cast more Witchfire powers then every psyker out there and the only limit is how many dice you have to roll. 

 

For example you could use all your dice on Ahriman or divide your dice between Aspiring Sorcerers, your Herald and only then use the remaining ones on Ahriman if he is in a good position to shoot things with mind bullets. 

 

But this also means that an Aspiring Sorcerer in the Thousand Sons unit can become a scary mind bullet machine if you decide to use him as such. 

[FENRISÚLFUR]

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that it states psykers can only cast a number of powers equal to their mastery level, not equal to the number of powers they have. I don't have the BrB on hand currently to quote a page number.

im telling you it doesnt

 

What it states is

 

 

The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level. Even a Psyker with a Mastery Level of 1 is a fearsome foe. Psykers with a Mastery Level of 4 or higher are incredibly rare, and it is better for the galaxy that this is so – they are almost unbelievably powerful, and rarely submit to any authority other than their own.

 

But All ML is used to determine is how many powers you have, the only actual limitation on casting is

 

 

The most common psychic action is the manifestation of psychic powers. Only the player whose turn it is can attempt to manifest psychic powers. If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.

 

This means that you can cast as many powers as you have dice for, but normally you cant cast the same spell more than once, therefore FUNCTIONALLY most psykers are limited in the number of powers they can attempt by the number of powers they know, which is in turn determined by their mastery level, which ahriman overrides with the black staff

 

 

So what you are saying is that in the first quote where it states " The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" doesn't actually tell us that a Psyker can only use powers equal to his mastery level? Hmm, I guess I'm confused as to why you are saying that they are allowed to cast more powers than their Mastery Level.

 

 The second quote,  " If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows". This should confirm that a Psyker can cast more than one power a turn, but not more than he is allowed by his Mastery level.

 

Pretty clear cut to me...

 

 

Im saying that when it states the number of powers they use depends on their mastery level it is not giving you enough information to know how they are dependent upon your mastery level.

 

You are assuming that they are limited one to one. I am showing that the limitation is expanded upon in more details in the rules section titled "Manifesting psychic powers"

 

seems pretty clear cut to me.....

 

 

It seems that you are also assuming that the availibility of Warp Charge Points means you can ignore the limitation on how many powers you may cast per turn, based on your mastery level.

[daboarder]

No, See under mine you are still limited by your mastery level as you may only cast each power once.

 

how many powers do you have? Oh look, you have as many powers as your mastery level, and are therefore dependent upon your mastery level for how many powers you may cast.

 

No assumptions here

[FENRISÚLFUR]

It is all fairly simple.

 

You choose the Psyker and his Psychic Powers to manifest. If it benefits you more to use all your warp dice on Ahriman then you are free to do it. Which means that he can cast more Witchfire powers then every psyker out there and the only limit is how many dice you have to roll. 

 

For example you could use all your dice on Ahriman or divide your dice between Aspiring Sorcerers, your Herald and only then use the remaining ones on Ahriman if he is in a good position to shoot things with mind bullets. 

 

But this also means that an Aspiring Sorcerer in the Thousand Sons unit can become a scary mind bullet machine if you decide to use him as such. 

 

The FAQ for the Black Staff says the he may cast the same Witchfire power up to 3 times, but does not remove the limitation of the total number of powers he may cast per psychic phase, which is based on his mastery level.

 

For example, if Ahriman wants to use power 'A' three times in one psychic phase he may do so, while other psykers may only use the same witchfire power once per phase. No where does it say Ahriman may use each and every withcfire power he has up to three times per phase.

[daboarder]

Hey mate, If you want to assume and limit your self go ahead, but thats not how it works

[Sn4k30r]

Fenrisufur is right here, Ahriman means that he can use 3 from his 4 Mastery level to cast the same witchfire,  it says it clearly page 22 :

 

The number of psychic powers a psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level.

 

Nothing to be troubled about.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

No, See under mine you are still limited by your mastery level as you may only cast each power once.

 

how many powers do you have? Oh look, you have as many powers as your mastery level, and are therefore dependent upon your mastery level for how many powers you may cast.

 

No assumptions here

So how does this work with the Last Memory artifact from the Black Legion supplement? The LM says you increase your mastery level by 1 but do not generate another power? Would that sorcerer then be limited to only casting as many powers as he had generated, or would he be allowed to cast up to his mastery level? By your ruling a sorcerer with the Last Memory and a mastery level of 4 but only 3 powers would only be able to cast 3 powers each phase, meaning his ML no longer is used to determine how many powers he may cast per turn .

[Forté]

Wouldn't surprise me if it gets a FAQ to say you can only use your level in powers in the phase. In other words. He can cast 4 maximum.

[daboarder]

DUDE Feris! read man, you cast as many powers as you HAVE but can only cast them once each.

 

the memory means that you have 5 powers, you can cast up to 5 powers (because you can caste each once)

 

You increase your ML, yay! your now generating another warp charge.

 

that is all

[Shuggnuggath]

I expect some further clarifications. GW would never be that kind to the Thousand Sons :D

[daboarder]

I expect some further clarifications. GW would never be that kind to the Thousand Sons

hey if FAQs come then that is another matter of course.

that being said 1ksons are looking boss this edition.

ML3 Div sorcerers

Ahriman

ML4 Last memory disc Sorcerers

All backs up by battery Asp Sorcs that have 2 powers a pop

[FENRISÚLFUR]

DUDE Feris! read man, you cast as many powers as you HAVE but can only cast them once each.

 

the memory means that you have 5 powers, you can cast up to 5 powers (because you can caste each once)

 

You increase your ML, yay! your now generating another warp charge.

 

that is all

I am reading, and no where have I read the words "the amount of powers you can cast per phase is equal to the number of power you have"... What I have read is " The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level."

 

DUDE, daboarder! stop trying fabricate rules... If that is the way you want to play it, go for it, it's your game. The rest of us will play by the rules....