Why did the Emperor make Primarchs and SM so big?

[b1soul]

Movement speed as well, 7.5 ft tall guys cover a lot of ground with each stride. So you can drop a marine miles from the objective and he can get there much faster than a human could.

 

"Taller" doesn't necessarily mean "run faster"

 

Taller, more massive guys are usually slower and less coordinated. Guys like Usain Bolt are very, very rare...the exception rather than the rule. Most elite 100m sprinters are much shorter than Usain

 

On top of that, smaller guys usually have greater striking speed. Small boxers are usually much, much faster than heavyweight boxers. Now, don't get me wrong...even a champion-level welterweight boxer would almost certainly get wrecked by a low-level heavyweight boxer. In boxing, which relies on inflicting blunt trauma, a huge size difference trumps speed and skill. The same, however, isn't true for sword fighting. That's because blade fighting relies more on speed and technique, not on power. A big guy might have greater reach...but a small guy has speed. Power is less of a factor.

[KaosRaptor]

*cough* I'll just leave this here...http://wfiles.brothersoft.com/c/cover-is-for-the-weak_108119-1152x864.jpg

Humanity faces myriad threats; the size of the Space Marines is, as far as I can tell, a bonus. A blast that would annihilate regular men might blow a limb off a Space Marine - if it even manages to penetrate their armour. While a mortal would likely scream for the closest medic, and possibly be incapacitated for the rest of the battle, a member of the Adeptus Astartes will grimace and keep fighting.

Their size let's them duel toe-to-toe with warp-bloated champions of Chaos, or warlords of Ork WAAAAGH's, taking wounds that would absolutely destroy anyone else. A smaller, more nimble combatant might be able to avoid the blows directed their way, but as soon as one lands they could be permanently out of the fight. A Space Marine would not.

Not to mention - they look damn awesome. Which - though likely not the reason they were built to be so big - certainly can't hurt morale of their allies. Though someone with enough guile and dexterity to dodge every attack coming their way while still fighting the good fight is a cool image, personally I prefer the behemoth that takes the punishment and keeps going

Just my 2 cents, of course.

[b1soul]

*cough* I'll just leave this here...http://wfiles.brothersoft.com/c/cover-is-for-the-weak_108119-1152x864.jpg

 

 

That's one massive Guardsman

[Adra'Melek]

 

Movement speed as well, 7.5 ft tall guys cover a lot of ground with each stride. So you can drop a marine miles from the objective and he can get there much faster than a human could.

 

 

"Taller" doesn't necessarily mean "run faster"

 

Taller, more massive guys are usually slower and less coordinated. Guys like Usain Bolt are very, very rare...the exception rather than the rule. Most elite 100m sprinters are much shorter than Usain

 

On top of that, smaller guys usually have greater striking speed. Small boxers are usually much, much faster than heavyweight boxers. Now, don't get me wrong...even a champion-level welterweight boxer would almost certainly get wrecked by a low-level heavyweight boxer. In boxing, which relies on inflicting blunt trauma, a huge size difference trumps speed and skill. The same, however, isn't true for sword fighting. That's because blade fighting relies more on speed and technique, not on power. A big guy might have greater reach...but a small guy has speed. Power is less of a factor.

Except Marines are both bigger and faster than normal humans.

[Legatus]

Well, the melee focus would seem to be the only justification.

 

The extra organs are nice...but kinda offset by the fact that you're now a much bigger target (easier to hit and less effective at using cover)

 

Someone said that power armour renders cover redundant...if that's case, power armour would render extra organs redundant as well

 

 

The purpose of the organs is not just to make a Marine stronger and tougher. Only few of the organs have such a purpose. Most of the organs greatly increase the efficiency of the Marine's circulatory systems and senses. They allow him to operate for days without pause, or to operate in various hazardous environments, even without completely sealed armour. Really, a lot of the organs have a more logistical purpose, giving Marines a much greater operational utility than ordinary troops, or just increase the Marine's overall effectiveness, rather than just making him tougher to kill with bullets.

[Clewz]

The emperor loves his big boys

[SpecialIssue]

As people have said, to defeat huge enemies like Ork warbosses the size of dreadnoughts/Meganobs, you need powerful weapons/(hands). To be able to carry weapons effective on this level, you need strength. Increased strength means more muscle mass, and more muscle mass requires a better cardiovascular system. Thus, for all this on a single frame, you need a larger size. Then there's all the operational and logistics organ functionalities that need to be crammed in there too.

 

Also, extra organs and the capacity to absorb additional damage is never redundant.

[Kol Saresk]

 

If you cram the organs in a tinier space, a single shot would disrupt two or three.

 

...but most shots would be blocked by power armour, right?

 

...and a smaller, faster marine would be harder to hit and be better at using cover

 

 

Which would still make them around seven to eight feet tall and we can start calling them SPARTAN II(I)s.

 

What? According to the Deathwatch RPG, naked marines are around 7 feet tall

 

And we're talking smaller in power armor. SPARTANs were basically super-jacked up soldiers with power armor and they were around seven to eight feet tall with it. Linda(I think that's her name; the super-quiet female sniper) was the smallest and she was around seven feet in armor IIRC. The SPARTAN IIIs were the same size, but wore slimmer armor. Scratch that, they wore kevlar thread clothes that made them invisible. Did nothing for survivability.

 

Even Captain America, who is only peak human, was boosted to a height of 6'2"(at least in the comics; Chris Evans is only 6'0"). "Smaller" is still the same size as the average basketball player, with the bulk of the average football player.

 

Also, the Power Armor does not negate the need for cover. It mitigates it. It takes projectiles capable of piercing light armor before integrity can be compromised. Even then, a shot through the eye piece or in between the joints can still do damage and energy projectiles seem to have no problem as long as they are not lasguns, which become subject to author's prerogative.

 

Also, "lack of cover" is variable. Astartes are big, but they are not so big they can't hide behind a wall. Or a decent sized tree.

[Noserenda]

Also, given the job they are designed to do (Shock Assaults), making them nimble and dodgy would be completely useless. Shock assaults almost always lack cover almost entirely, especially against prepared positions so unless you are Eldar Harlequin fast (Dooable but not enmasse) you are much MUCH better off building to last :D

[Relict]

Power armor not enough to deflect the volume of incoming fire?

 

That's why we have Cataphractii-Pattern Tactical Dreadnought Armor. :D

 

I like to think that the Space Marine is built for survival first and foremost. The power armor, the organ redundancy, the various "fail-safe" modes (Extermination makes mention of live Legionaries being recovered days/weeks after the Dropsite Massacre, still alive), etc. 

 

In real-life warfare, the most common causes of death are blood loss and organ failure. The Space Marine is immune against both. The only way to kill one is to inflict such trauma that it overwhelms his physiology. 

[Xin Ceithan]

 

Movement speed as well, 7.5 ft tall guys cover a lot of ground with each stride. So you can drop a marine miles from the objective and he can get there much faster than a human could.

 

 

"Taller" doesn't necessarily mean "run faster"

 

Taller, more massive guys are usually slower and less coordinated. Guys like Usain Bolt are very, very rare...the exception rather than the rule. Most elite 100m sprinters are much shorter than Usain

 

On top of that, smaller guys usually have greater striking speed. Small boxers are usually much, much faster than heavyweight boxers. Now, don't get me wrong...even a champion-level welterweight boxer would almost certainly get wrecked by a low-level heavyweight boxer. In boxing, which relies on inflicting blunt trauma, a huge size difference trumps speed and skill. The same, however, isn't true for sword fighting. That's because blade fighting relies more on speed and technique, not on power. A big guy might have greater reach...but a small guy has speed. Power is less of a factor.

This is pretty accurate ..on humans. But Astartes are build from humans. They are not simply blown up men. They are children literally grown to be more than human. Denser bone structure, extra organs, faster reflexes. better eyesight, sharper hearing. Close to eidetic memory. Faster Perception. They are not simply super soldiers, they are supposed to be transhuman soldiers. And yes I believe they are somewhat over seven feet without armour. which is still quite large.

And this is 40 k after all. Where bigger is simply better. Imperial navy frigates are the size of Star Wars Stardestroyers.

And if you are out to call yourself The Lord of Mankind and ride around the galaxy in your glowing golden space city , you are not going to create an army of transhumance midgets. It just does not have that "fists of the gods" feeling, has it?

[Relict]

Not to mention that WH40K in general draws some inspiration from Greco-Roman legends. The Primarchs are massive and powerful just like the heros of old.

[Kol Saresk]

I think part of the problem is that we are trying to apply modern understanding to a concept that is supposed to defy and exceed current understanding by being both futuristic and impossible.

[Conn Eremon]

I think part of the problem is that we are trying to apply modern understanding to a concept that is supposed to defy and exceed current understanding by being both futuristic and impossible.

And mythic, fantastic and symbolic.

[Raulmichile]

 

I think part of the problem is that we are trying to apply modern understanding to a concept that is supposed to defy and exceed current understanding by being both futuristic and impossible.

And mythic, fantastic and symbolic.

And fearsome, cool and just plain lethal.