Tiberius Cato Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Hail brothers! I'm in the process of creating a sm chapter and I want to give them a bit of an Elvish feel to them. I was curious how I could go about this. I would appreciate any suggestions on appearance, chapter symbol, or anything else that you guys could help me with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 General elf feel or from a certain universe in particular? I think Mk VI would go well because it's a lot smoother and then replace the bonding stud shoulder pads with more flat ones. As for a chapter symbol, I'd say make it a smooth symbol. That's all I have unless there's a specific inspiration you have for these guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3702547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm looking for a Tolkien-esque type of elf, possibly with a bit of the High Elves from The Elder Scroll. For the symbol I was thinking of using a word from the quenya language of LotR in the elvish script, seeing as the script is very compact and to the average person looks like a. random symbol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3702553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't understand why you'd try to give the human army an elven flavor when there's two kinds of elf army already in the setting? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3702650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't understand why you'd try to give the human army an elven flavor when there's two kinds of elf army already in the setting? Â I imagine it's a cultural thing, rather than physical. Also, despite the Craftworld and Dark being the 40k Elves I don't think many people have ever really thought of them as "proper" Elves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3702666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't want to make them Eldar in Astartes armour. I just want them to culturally be elf like. They would still very much be fully invested in destroying the enemies of the Imperium of Man, but the way they view the universe and their traditions would be influenced a lot by a the world they recruit from which would be based on Tolkien's elves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3702875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Craftworld Eldar are very influenced by Tolkien, though. Even the name "Eldar" is from Tolkien. Â I'm not getting nerd-mad or anything, I promise. I'm really just curious. Â Taking a step back, 40k is a game about knights and elves and orks and wizards demons all fighting in space. There are lists that de-emphasize that, and factions more grounded in sci-fi that don't participate in the fantasy vibe, like Tau and Tyranids. But if you like elves, and specifically Tolkien elves, why not play the elf faction? There are some elements of Eldar society that are less Tolkienesque than others, but all the Tolkien traits are still there, and you could more easily make your own Craftworld to emphasize the more Tolkien aspects and downplay the aspects you don't care for, just like chapters. Â What's gained by trying to customize an Astartes chapter to that sort of standard? Or perhaps you could be more specific about which parts of Tolkien you're interested in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I very nearly went the route of craftworld, but the Eldar don't interest me. I wanted a Astartes chapter like that because they are a highly organised military force, and individually very skilled warriors, capable of cnducting all manners of operations with minimal amounts of personnel. I absolutely love Tolkien's language and culture he created for his elves and aim to put forth traces of that into my chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Fair enough, that's a perfectly fine answer. Â Though since the Eldar do exist, you also want to make sure any Chapter you create is distinct from them. Doable, but potentially tricky. So what specifics from Tolkien appeal to you, that you're hoping to bring across? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I would like to have some trace of either branch of the Elvish language in my chapter, possibly through names of the marines. Also, to my knowledge, their crafts were of great renown; often their weapons were said to be imbued with magic. So I thought that I could transition that as them being like the salamanders and being very good at crafting weapons. I have also debated on wether or not if I want to use Elf(or Eldar) heads on some of my minis. My main worry is if that would be crossing lines that I don't want to, fluff-wise that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to use the elf heads as Astartes are usually depicted as looking like they suffer from some kind of gigantism and tend to have broad, heavy features. Â Â On the fluff, while I'm inclined to agree with Plague Angel, it could work. I think I'd try to tie in the Eldar in some way so that any similarities are not just pure coincidence. Maybe have them grow to be allies with a small Craftworld in their area, or perhaps make their homeworld a long abandoned Maiden world which might explain cultural similarities? Â Â Whatever the case, your themes need to be subtle, actng too 'Eldar in power armour' would get them killed by the rest of the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Considering what visual cues you could use are limited, you will have to distill what you can from Tolkien's works and use it sparingly in the chapter. Don't go at this all ham-fisted - if you can 'flavour' the chapter with elvish cues (and still make them sound Imperial) then you're only part the way there. There is still other considerations to take into account with their background - relationships with the rest of the Imperium, notable history/battles and their organisation. Â Thankfully, Tolkien elf names don't venture terribly far from Space Marine naming conventions, so if you're smart about how you name your marines (for example using a popular name component rather than lifting full names, eg. using 'il' as a suffix to a name) then you might be onto a winner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I don't want to make them Eldar in Astartes armour. I just want them to culturally be elf like. They would still very much be fully invested in destroying the enemies of the Imperium of Man, but the way they view the universe and their traditions would be influenced a lot by a the world they recruit from which would be based on Tolkien's elves.So long-lived arrogant treehuggers past their prime? Using the tengwar alphabet on armour and vehicles seems unproblematic since that looks totally different from Eldar or Dark Eldar runes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 One suggestion a bit left field for you. Maybe look at making your chapter Blood Angel descendants. I think it can fit with the kind of theme and attributes you're looking for. Â As sons of Sanguinius, it would fit if they were: gifted with ethereal, almost unearthly, beauty and grace, powerful psykers, long lived, and skilled in aesthetic arts. The flip side of their terrible rage also reflects some depictions of elves when they're roused as terrible beings who are beyond human (hinted at in Tolkien, but more fully fleshed out in other works). Â You could work in a few different themes to reference classic Tolkien elves. Maybe they seek out meditation in pristine beautiful scenes of nature to help keep the Red Thirst and Black Rage under control - hence their home world and space ships contain carefully maintained forest glades. Their induction process - which is already weird as Sons of Sanguinius, could involve two "trees" - ancient devices that glow with beautiful light. In Tolkien, the Elves who had seen the Two Trees were made more beautiful, wise and powerful and had a light in their eyes that never left them - your guys' description of themselves could be "those who have seen the light of the Two Trees". Â My feeling is you should avoid any connection to the Eldar or suggestion they have borrowed culturally from them. Consorting and apeing xenos does not fit with Space Marines, in my view, and would create all kinds of complications for your story/background. Think such a connection is unnecessary - there are many ways to get across the relevant types of thematic ideas without it. Â Just a suggestion for what it's worth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Ah, a Chapter for my Stonebound to have a rivalry with. Some ideas that might help with Elf-theming a Chapter the Tolkien way: * Early Founding would work marvellously, so they can get the old-established vibe that Tolkien's elves give off, along with tales of the glory days. * The names of their heroes could be passed from one marine to another, to simulate the 'lives forever' aspect of the Elves. * The Chapter could be a bit fatalistic in 'modern' 40K, perhaps having their geneseed slowly degrading or failing to implant in new recruits, giving you the 'the age of elves is over' angle. * Tied into that, warriors who feel their time to live is coming to an end could go off alone in search of glorious deaths (a bit like going west to the Grey Havens, only more 40K) EDIT: Apologies that this isn't more detailed, but I'm in kind of a rush today. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I like those ideas a lot Brother Ace, I shall have to find a way to incorporate them. And Brother Aegnor that is a great suggestion, it makes a lot of sense and would fit very well. The two trees idea could be interesting, possibly symbolising the BR and RT. I also like the forest glade idea a lot, perhaps I could tie that into the chapter name and call them the glade warriors or something like that(suggestion is welcome). My thoughts on the connection with Eldar is maybe they allied with an Eldar craftworld because they were being overwhelmed by a common enemy, most likely orks, and their numbers were so depleted they needed the Eldar's aid or would have faced extinction. So now they would be indebted to the Eldar, possibly giving small caches of resources as thanks for keeping them from extinction. And it would tie into the age of elves is ending theme, for lack of a better word, because their chapter's numbers would be greatly reduced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 My thoughts on the connection with Eldar is maybe they allied with an Eldar craftworld because they were being overwhelmed by a common enemy, most likely orks, and their numbers were so depleted they needed the Eldar's aid or would have faced extinction. So now they would be indebted to the Eldar, possibly giving small caches of resources as thanks for keeping them from extinction. And it would tie into the age of elves is ending theme, for lack of a better word, because their chapter's numbers would be greatly reduced. Â Most chapters would rather face extinction than ally with filthy xenos. What would be the underlying train of thought for the chapter that drives them to ally with a foe of humanity? And would this simply be a 'you don't shoot at me and I won't shoot at you' thing or something more involved? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 * The Chapter could be a bit fatalistic in 'modern' 40K, perhaps having their geneseed slowly degrading or failing to implant in new recruits, giving you the 'the age of elves is over' angle. That's a great idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I think the "you don't shoot us, we don't shoot you" thing would be more reasonable. As for further connections to the Eldar, maybe the Eldar could have said "We want X in return for saving you, if you don't comply we bring the might of the craftworld upon you". And in desperation the chapter accepted because if they were wiped out their section of Imperial space would have hordes of Orks pouring through it into the Imperium, so rather than cling to pride they chose the lesser of two evils and decided that a alliance (a very temporary one) with the Eldar was for the greater good. And with knowledge of the general location of the craftworld they may be able to launch an assault on the Eldar when their numbers grow back upto full strength. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3703787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 That's a great idea. Cheers. Truth be told, these are all ideas that didn't make it into my nephew's Chapter, who use Tolkien's elves as one of their many inspirations. Arctic Paladin: Blood Angel geneseed would definitely work - lends the Chapter the long lifespan and artistic side of the Elves, and the black rage is just a cheeky bonus. Have you given any thought to the Chapter's colours? I can run a few ideas up in the painter if you'd like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I would presume gold and/or white would be a good combo to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Or green and silver. Â If you go the Sanguinius-descent route (which I really think would be fitting!), you could have them not assemble a Death Company, per se. Instead, in a sort of 40k perversion of the Grey Havens thing, have those who fall to the Black Rage voyage to the edge of the galaxy, to fight beyond the reach of the Emperor's Light. Possibly to the Halo stars or Ghoul stars? Both ancient, haunted regions of space rumoured to be home to terrible xenos threats, which also represent a serious danger if they were to be absorbed by the encroaching Tyranids. Â If you really want to go very Elven, I think you could have them appear to be somewhat slender and delicate of features compared to most marines. This could be due to a flaw in the already unstable gene-seed, the population of their homeworld being not-quite standard homo sapiens (think borderline abhumans), and if you think you can pull it off, you could hint that the populace of their homeworld has actual Eldar ancestry (Didn't there used to be an Ultrasmurf librarian who was half-Eldar? There's a fluff precedent, even if that particular example was retconned). Of course this really depends on how you want to consider canonicity of the ancient fluff, and also how loose you want to be with science (realistically there is no way an alien race that evolved totally seperate from all life on Terra could produce viable offspring with a human). Though it could be a matter of genetic tampering way back pre-Imperium that led to the unusual appearance of the planet's inhabitants. You can definitely get away with their continued existence if the world was actually conquered by the chapter themselves, thus removing any potential of Inquisitorial condemnation. After all, the Space Wolves get away with living on a planet inhabited by werewolves, from whom they recruit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 I was thinking of using white armour with green shoulderpads and backpack. Or green armour done with various trimmings in gold and white. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Cato Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 That would be a really cool idea Brother Nemesor, I will have to look into that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Which? The thing about the Death Company voyaging to the fringe worlds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291697-an-inquiry-of-mine/#findComment-3704828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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