An inquiry of mine

[Ace Debonair]

*Dusts off his infamous Heraldry Dept. Hat*

White with green shoulders & backpack, as per your vision:



The thing I couldn't stop thinking of when I was playing with the painter, however, was the Elves of the First Age depicted in the Lord of the Rings film.

You know, all gold armour and blue surcoat-type-things.

That said, overdoing the gold armour tends to look bad on the painter images. (And as an aside, it's harder to make HQ's look bling-y in an all-gold army.) So, I thought I'd dial it back and make gold the secondary colour.

And while the blue looked pretty ok, green is an orkier elfier colour than blue, so I thought I'd try that out instead:

So, here's a few schemes for you to peruse - if there's anything you'd like to use then feel free, and if there's any changes you'd like me to make or other ideas you'd like to see painter'd up I'll be happy to oblige.

[Tiberius Cato]

I really like that last image Brother Ace. I was thinking of using maybe a copper colour for the rank and file marines, bronze for sergeants, and then full on gold for everything from up from there. I think that would give them a nice bling-y effect to discern the "who's who" of the chapter.

And to Brother Nemesor, yes I absolutely love the idea of sending the Death Company off on a journey.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Just reading this makes me want my own Elf-Marines - some great ideas here dudes.

[TDF]

In LotR elf 'magic' is implied to be more like sufficiently advanced technology, so usage of rare Crusade-era technology could be another theme of your Chapter.

I've also got a weird idea of slightly altering the artistic ability of the Blood Angels away from aesthetic art (tapestries, sculptures, etc.) towards poetry and creating beautiful new languages, Tolkien-style.

Just reading this makes me want my own Elf-Marines - some great ideas here dudes.

I was having the exact same thought.

[Tiberius Cato]

I like those ideas very much Brother Tdf4638. I'll have to think of a way to incorporate that into models aswell, possibly putting lines of "text" onto many parts of the armour to represent the poetry and prose written by each marine.

[Olis]

I think, in order to facilitate the idea Tdf4638 put forward, I'd suggest perhaps going down the route of the Red Scorpions and give them access to MKIV armour in a reasonable quantity. I also think MKVI would suit the theme well, too.

[Tiberius Cato]

I agree Brother Olisredan. They will most likey be outfitted with mostly MK. VI and VII armour. And my higher ranking marines will have more MK. IV

[Aegnor]

And lembas. They need lembas.

[Olis]

And lembas. They need lembas.

 

Just don't get it near any Hobbits Watchers. ;)

[Quixus]

And lembas. They need lembas.

Just don't get it near any Hobbits Watchers.

Don't worry, hobbits watchers are for the dress-wearing marines elves only.

... oh, nevermind.

[Tiberius Cato]

Brothers, what do you think of the name "The Sylvan Brotherhood" for this chapter?

[Aegnor]

This is going to sound silly in the context of this thread, but that name seems almost too explicitly elf-y. Not stupidly so, but maybe something just a little bit more implied.

[Ace Debonair]

Pick a name for the Chapter's Homeworld, and you could have Marchwardens of [PLANET NAME].

Just another idea that was floating around.

[Olis]

Pick a name for the Chapter's Homeworld, and you could have Marchwardens of [PLANET NAME].

Lembas?

[Tiberius Cato]

I admit, after letting the name sit for a while in my head it sounded silly. The planet is going to be called Anaria, Marchwardens of Anaria has a nice ring to it. Maybe even the Lembas Vigilant would be a good name :P On a more serious note, other names I have thought of are "Glade Wardens", "Primeval Hunters", and "Verdant Warriors".

[Quixus]

"Verdant Warriors".

In light of the recent GW releases "Green iz Best!"

[Gripharius]

When I read your first post, I almost dismissed the idea of an "elvish' CHapter as untenable out of hand.  But reading the comments and suggestions from everyone, I think there are a lot of great ideas that could really work.  I think, to be truly successful, you should focus on understated ways of giving them a Tolkien elf "flavor" rather than making them elves in power armor, or being too obvious about it.  Suggestions like the fatalism aspect, ethereal beauty,  a graceful fighting style and other little touches would work best, IMHO. 

 

Consider a mutation to the geneseed that makes them extremely long-lived but as they age, their geneseed becomes unusable.  Maybe a cultural practice of retreating into secluded in forest glades (or whatever)  for lengthy periods of time (decades) to parallel the distance and lack of invovlement that the Tolkien elves had from Middle Earth.  Their fatalism has made them somewhat indifferent to and detached from the everyday hustle-and-bustle of the Imperium, as they exist only to hone their skills, refine their arts and make war against the eternal enemies of Mankind. 

 

I like those ideas a lot Brother Ace, I shall have to find a way to incorporate them. And Brother Aegnor that is a great suggestion, it makes a lot of sense and would fit very well. The two trees idea could be interesting, possibly symbolising the BR and RT. I also like the forest glade idea a lot, perhaps I could tie that into the chapter name and call them the glade warriors or something like that(suggestion is welcome). My thoughts on the connection with Eldar is maybe they allied with an Eldar craftworld because they were being overwhelmed by a common enemy, most likely orks, and their numbers were so depleted they needed the Eldar's aid or would have faced extinction. So now they would be indebted to the Eldar, possibly giving small caches of resources as thanks for keeping them from extinction. And it would tie into the age of elves is ending theme, for lack of a better word, because their chapter's numbers would be greatly reduced.

 

If it were me, I would go the opposite direction.  I would have them hate Eldar just like any other xenos filth.  I would fully invest them with that sort of latent hypocrisy common in the Grimdark so that they could not recognize any of the possible similarities between themselves and the Eldar, and have them treat the Eldar like any other enemy to be destroyed.  If anyone ever suggested they were like the Eldar, they would be completely oblivious and unable to see any likeness at all.

 

I think that would make it easier for the Chapter to have an elvish flavor and less likely to make it seem like they are Eldar in Space Marine armor. 

[Tiberius Cato]

Brother Gripharius, your post is extremely helpful as I was having difficulties on finding a way to tie my chapter in with the Eldar. It makes perfect sense in the context of 40K for an elf like chapter to hate what is the equivalent to the Elvish race. I could see that the planet would be under constant attack by the Eldar, generating even more animosity between both factions.

My question on the mutation, are you suggesting that they become longer lived than their Blood Angel brothers?

Also, I was thinking that once they hit the point where their geneseed becomes unusable they venture off into the wilderness of their homeworld, equipped only with scout and combat knife to live out their dying years returning to their rootsas hunters and gatherers.

[Gripharius]

Personally, I don't know if I would use the BA geneseed, because I just don't see the Red Thirst and Black Rage fitting in with the Tolkien Elvish theme.  I think you can get the "elvish" beauty and grace without needing BA geneseed.  You could suggest that the human stock from which the Chapter's recruits are drawn are naturally tall, slender, graceful and handsome, and that either a geneseed mutaiton or something in the genetic mix between that human stock and the geneseed operates so that the beauty and grace remains, without the usual "flattening out" of features and other affects common to Space Marines.  I'm not suggesting a radical departure with svelte, towering Space Marines with uniformly gorgeous features, I'm just suggesting that their musculature, while large and abhuman, tends to be more compact and proportional, and that their features tend to retain the natural beauty of their human stock, rather than all becoming square-jawed and slab-faced.

 

As for the age thing, yes, I was suggesting that the Chapter's marines would tend to be longer lived than other Chapters.  But I think this might be best accomplished by having lengthy times in which they withdraw from active missions and remain in some elvish solitude or inner contemplation on their remote and isolated homeworld. You really don't even have to make it a geneseed mutation, although I like the thought of the Chapter's geneseed gradually dying off, lending to the fatalism theme.

 

I would do it this way because one of the central features of Tolkien's elves -- at least to me, personally -- is that they are removed from the rest of the world, isolated, slow to get involved.  In WH40K, I would see this as them playing the long game of the Great War -- their fatalism leads them to believe that the war against humanity's foes will never end, so they are not driven by an urgent need to spend every moment fighting in the latest battle, the most recent xenos incursion, mustering for the emergency campaign, etc.  The Chapter does its duty to the Emperor, of course, but they just don't get the immediate rush to war like some other Chapters.  Maybe they see it as just "the sky is falling" alarmism, or maybe they get so wrapped up in navel-gazing that they can be slow to rouse for war, and a few decades can slip by them easily.

 

I would also use this method because it would give your common front line marine that certain elvish detachment or aloofness.  Maybe he and the Ultramarine next to him have fought in the same number of battles and slain the same number of foes, but he's 150 years older than the Ultramarine and has spent time following other elvish pursuits.  This would not make your marine any better than the Ultramarine in a special snowflake way, but would be just another touch to give your Chapter the Tolkien elvish flavor.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Olis]

You could suggest that the human stock from which the Chapter's recruits are drawn are naturally tall, slender, graceful and handsome, and that either a geneseed mutaiton or something in the genetic mix between that human stock and the geneseed operates so that the beauty and grace remains, without the usual "flattening out" of features and other affects common to Space Marines. 

 

How about having their homeworld as a low-grav planet? Or a large moon, maybe? Theoretically, the lower the gravity of a planet/moon, the taller people would grow, within reason. Not anything too wacky, mind you. Let's just say it's normal to be somewhere about 6' 4" - 6' 6", instead of 5'10" - 6'.

 

 

I'm not suggesting a radical departure with svelte, towering Space Marines with uniformly gorgeous features, I'm just suggesting that their musculature, while large and abhuman, tends to be more compact and proportional, and that their features tend to retain the natural beauty of their human stock, rather than all becoming square-jawed and slab-faced.

 

I think the word you're looking for is 'wiry'. ^_^

 

 

As for the age thing, yes, I was suggesting that the Chapter's marines would tend to be longer lived than other Chapters.  But I think this might be best accomplished by having lengthy times in which they withdraw from active missions and remain in some elvish solitude or inner contemplation on their remote and isolated homeworld. You really don't even have to make it a geneseed mutation, although I like the thought of the Chapter's geneseed gradually dying off, lending to the fatalism theme.

 

Or... or... how about the marines like to 'sleep' in stasis? It's not an obviously elvish thing but it does extend their lifespans by an arbitrary about (more than half sounds squiffy, though).

 

 

Nothing against the ideas so far, I'm just providing alternative takes on the same notion. ;)

[Tiberius Cato]

"Elves apparently did not sleep but rested their minds with beautiful thoughts in reverie or looking at fair things."

This is a bit I found while researching Tolkien elves more indepth, I thought it combined both of your ideas pretty well Brothers Gripharius and Olisredan. As of yet, I'm still deciding on a chapter name, which may or may not include lembas.

Also, I think that since Anaria, the chapter's homeworld, is going to be covered in forest, plains, and plateaus (I have no idea if I spelled that correctly :l ) that the chapter's combat doctrine would include guerilla warfare, mounted assaults (bikes ftw), and scout snipers in surplus. So a shooty chapter that likes to hit and run aswell.

[Olis]

"Elves apparently did not sleep but rested their minds with beautiful thoughts in reverie or looking at fair things."

This is a bit I found while researching Tolkien elves more indepth, I thought it combined both of your ideas pretty well Brothers Gripharius and Olisredan. As of yet, I'm still deciding on a chapter name, which may or may not include lembas.

Also, I think that since Anaria, the chapter's homeworld, is going to be covered in forest, plains, and plateaus (I have no idea if I spelled that correctly :l ) that the chapter's combat doctrine would include guerilla warfare, mounted assaults (bikes ftw), and scout snipers in surplus. So a shooty chapter that likes to hit and run aswell.

 

That sounds awfully Raven Guard-ish, to me. Did you settle on a primogenitor, btw?

 

(And yes, you did spell 'plateaus' correctly. :) )

[Tiberius Cato]

I'm going to go with Raven Guard and have some sons of Corax! :D

A round of beakie helmets for everyone!

[Gripharius]

Raven Guard could be an interesting choice.  Use the pale skin aspect of the Raven Guard geneseed to shore up the pale, ethereal, elven handsomeness of your marines.  But you may want to make it clear that the skin doesn't  become the white, veiny translucent that the Raven Guard eventually reaches.  Plus, you may want them to have hair and eye colors other than black.

 

Also, you could move the "wraith-slipping" concept from shadows to the forest:  your elves could develop the art of silent and stealthy movement not in darkness but in dense trees and forest.  That ability to seemingly disappear in the forest seems pretty elvish to me.

[Tiberius Cato]

Elves could have black hair so that's not much of a problem. I think i'm going to write it so that instead of turning black, the iris will turn a grey colour as they age.

That idea for wraith-slipping is exactly what I had in mind :) I just wasn't sure if that was a Raven Guard exclusive thing or if their descendants also inherited the ability. Also, besides the skin turning pale and the darkening eye/ hair colour, are their other notable mutations of the geneseed?