AfroCampbell Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 The last Vengeful Spirit was getting off track, and this was a more specific discussion: at the end of Scars we see Morty fighting Khan and hinted doubt at siding with the traitors, we see him dealing with the consequences with siding with Horus as he is now surrounded with psykers/warpy weirdos. (lets call this position A) at the start of Vengeful Spirit we see Morty confronting Grulgor, accepting him for his warped ways, cutting down 6 Deathshroud (!?!?!?!?), and getting his arse served by a Fire Raptor (probs fair enough, those cannons look nasty...) (Position B). It seems a lot has changed in the 2 years in between, and yet HE IS NOT NURGLE-FIED YET. so somewhere along the way it feels as though we are missing a link in this character development? so do you think there is going to be something linking position A and B? Whats going on here? what do people think of the Death Guard in the Heresy atm.....? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Well, there's apparently 2 years (I think?) between the events of Scars and VS, but I do agree that it's so sudden that it just smacks of bad writing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't think there is 2 years difference, Mortarion was still dealing with the wounds suffered by the Khan in vengeful spirit at the beginning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't think there is 2 years difference, Mortarion was still dealing with the wounds suffered by the Khan in vengeful spirit at the beginning. Huh. That just makes it even worse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 There is two years difference. Scars takes place just after Prospero, Vengeful Spirit takes place after or around the same time as Betrayer and/or Unremembered Empire. I agree that it sucks, but there is a Death Guard novel being written atm that will cover those two years. It seems like Vengeful Spirit was pushed just to have a story that contains Knights at the expense of whacking up the timeline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshal seanisi Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 2 years later and Mort is still healing from the battle with the Khan?. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 It appears so, then again Khan did really do a number on Morty, Mortarion could barely touch Khan whilst the Khan inflicted wound after wound until he heard of Ferrus's death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 From what Laurie Golding said on TFE, this happens around year 2 of the Heresy, before Prince of Crows and Unremembered Empire, but after Angel Exterminatus. So sometimes during Betrayer possibly? It appears Graham McNeil has pulled another Outcast Dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion's callous sacrifice of the Deathshroud was jarring, to say the least. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Wait a second here. 1. Fulgrim is already all Daemon Prince, so obviously post AE. 2. Scars had just finished, as Mortarion hadnt even fixed up his armour. So JUST post Scars when they get ambushed. 3. We dont know the time it takes to get to Molech though or when those events take place, could that be the 'years' portion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Could of swore Molech was near Prospero, thought I'd seen it on a map in one of the books but can't find it now. Another thing I've just noticed is the map inside the books has all the traitor legion home planets shown, first time I've seen that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Physical distance might not mean much when the Warp is the means of travel. Edit: Yes, that map is in the other two as well. Great map. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion "I hate sorcery!" 2 years later .... Mortarion "so if I just cut these deathshroud down, I summon a demonified former captain? All in! sorcery is A-ok! ;)" Next in the retcon installment, Perturabo and Fulgrim appear on jerry springer and make up, the emperor is Alpharius, and Vulkan and Curze share dinner Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I wouldn't call Mortarion's sudden swap a retcon. We already knew he was going to turn into that, and we already knew what he was before. The issue is that the change was too sudden, without any explanation or cause. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion "I hate sorcery!" 2 years later .... Mortarion "so if I just cut these deathshroud down, I summon a demonified former captain? All in! sorcery is A-ok! ;)" Next in the retcon installment, Perturabo and Fulgrim appear on jerry springer and make up, the emperor is Alpharius, and Vulkan and Curze share dinner He didn't even ask the question, he heard Grulgor ask for meat and so cut them all down in a single swipe which makes it worse imo, because a, he's gone from hating sorcery to embracing in a milisecond, b, not even querying how to do it and c, not even considering the loss of some of his favoured sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Can anyone confirm if Crusade (the upcoming FW Book) is pre Molech or post? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I think it's the same time. Due to the inference it's about the SoH and DG pushing the war onwards and the introductions of Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion "I hate sorcery!" 2 years later .... Mortarion "so if I just cut these deathshroud down, I summon a demonified former captain? All in! sorcery is A-ok! ;)" Next in the retcon installment, Perturabo and Fulgrim appear on jerry springer and make up, the emperor is Alpharius, and Vulkan and Curze share dinner He didn't even ask the question, he heard Grulgor ask for meat and so cut them all down in a single swipe which makes it worse imo, because a, he's gone from hating sorcery to embracing in a milisecond, b, not even querying how to do it and c, not even considering the loss of some of his favoured sons. Again, it isn't a millisecond, and again there is a Death Guard novel in the works set between Scars and Vengeful Spirit that apparently displays Mortarion's change of heart. According to Laurie Goulding over at TFE, Scars is set in 007.M31, Vengeful Spirit is 009.M31. Two year gap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Hmm. If it was pre-molech, that may make some sense. I'm thinking like this. 1. AE happens. 2. Scars happens. 3. Betraying is happening. 4. VS starts, Mortarion and Horus buddy up, and hit the stars. 5. Crusade (FW book) happens, Mortarion falls to accept corruption that he was raised with anyway. 6. Molech happens (tail end of Crusade?) and Mortarion uses the powers he inherently (ref: Scars, all Primarchs are 'of the Warp') has to summon uber Daemon guy. Maybe? EDIT: Yeah what Perrin is saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion "I hate sorcery!" 2 years later .... Mortarion "so if I just cut these deathshroud down, I summon a demonified former captain? All in! sorcery is A-ok! ;)" Next in the retcon installment, Perturabo and Fulgrim appear on jerry springer and make up, the emperor is Alpharius, and Vulkan and Curze share dinner He didn't even ask the question, he heard Grulgor ask for meat and so cut them all down in a single swipe which makes it worse imo, because a, he's gone from hating sorcery to embracing in a milisecond, b, not even querying how to do it and c, not even considering the loss of some of his favoured sons. Again, it isn't a millisecond, and again there is a Death Guard novel in the works set between Scars and Vengeful Spirit that apparently displays Mortarion's change of heart. According to Laurie Goulding over at TFE, Scars is set in 007.M31, Vengeful Spirit is 009.M31. Two year gap. I understand what you're saying, I'm just troubled by the fact Mortarion seems to of only just got away from the fight with the Khan since he's still injured and his armour is still damaged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Does this not mean that mortarion no longer requires Typhon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Mortarion "I hate sorcery!" 2 years later .... Mortarion "so if I just cut these deathshroud down, I summon a demonified former captain? All in! sorcery is A-ok! ;)" Next in the retcon installment, Perturabo and Fulgrim appear on jerry springer and make up, the emperor is Alpharius, and Vulkan and Curze share dinner He didn't even ask the question, he heard Grulgor ask for meat and so cut them all down in a single swipe which makes it worse imo, because a, he's gone from hating sorcery to embracing in a milisecond, b, not even querying how to do it and c, not even considering the loss of some of his favoured sons. Again, it isn't a millisecond, and again there is a Death Guard novel in the works set between Scars and Vengeful Spirit that apparently displays Mortarion's change of heart. According to Laurie Goulding over at TFE, Scars is set in 007.M31, Vengeful Spirit is 009.M31. Two year gap. I understand what you're saying, I'm just troubled by the fact Mortarion seems to of only just got away from the fight with the Khan since he's still injured and his armour is still damaged. Oh okay, sorry I thought you were disagreeing about the timing Completely agree, it was a weird one. Wouldn't be the first timeline mistake by this particular author though... I don't mind plot lines converging and weaving in and out of different novels, but time travelling plot lines is a pain Surely it makes more sense to bring out Vengeful Spirit after the DG book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3702973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I think GW forced their hand with the Imperial Knights codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3703009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Bear in mind at the start of VS the Sons of Horus are still on Dwell after the events of Little Horus so haven't exactly hit Molech out the park just yet. As for a time difference, I'd actually hate it if there wasn't a substantial gap between the end of Scars and the start of VS, Having all this crap popping up in different parts of time is wearing thin as it is, we've finally, FINALLY put Istvaan V on the backburner for good and now we keep having to get screwed around Prospero with? I agree Scars wouldn't have taken place at least a year, maybe 2 into the since the survivor on Prospero had been there a while after the World Eaters left which is another can of worms. I think the best we can shoot for is to say there was a gap between Scars and VS but nothing like 2 years. Mortarion seems like the brooding type too so not repairing the damage off the Khan would be in keeping with his character. Unlike dealing with Grulgor..... On that note, the novel planned to illuminate said change should be good. If it isn't sacrificed to make room for a model pushing book aka VS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3703025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I saw it more as Morty seeing that he is alone at the end of Scars and started embracing the madness of his brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291702-mortarion-vengeful-spirit-spoilers/#findComment-3703130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.