The Renegade Legion

[simison]

If I emphasize the undertones of peace, I have a title I'm liking:

Halcyon Guardians

 

The first one I came up with when focused on the learning aspect:

Erudite Guardians

 

I still like Wardens, so I may use that title within the legion or a possible successor chapter hiding in plain sight in 40K. And purple will be the primary legion color with a secondary color probably being white. I'll confess, I have done little painting and wouldn't know how well colors go together or how difficult some colors can be, so I appreciate any artistic advice. When I have more free time, I'll certainly practice it, but I'm still a beginner right now. 

 

If the enemy can't be tricked into attacking the Guardians, and offense is the only option, the legion is equipped to do so. The emphasis is still on minimizing casualties with locating weak points in the enemy army and breaking through and destroying enemy cohesion. With cohesion lost, it becomes a matter of divide and conquer. Assault is still the primary mode of attack to take advantage of the legion shields and get close enough so that psykers can make use of their telepathy. On the chance that no easy targets present themselves and perhaps the people are too corrupted, it's at that point where bombardment becomes the primary tactic. Preferably from orbit.

 

To sum up, the main strategy is kind of like a combination of Emperor's Children precise assaults with the forward grind of the Iron Warriors, replacing the artillery with assault tanks. 

 

So, instead of peace and learning, perhaps I should use a word synonymous with determination. As always, I appreciate the feedback.

[Slips]

Painting wise, if your dead set on purple, try thinking about using it as a secondary colour and not a primary. That way you'll avoid confusion with the Emperor's Children.

 

You could give them a colour hue not seen in the Heresy: Ice blue for example or a deeper violet more so than purple.

 

Again, purple and white is pretty much the colour scheme of the EC's Palatine Blades so think about that a bit and how you would make yours decidedly different if put on display next to some EC.

 

 

Combat wise, you've said they make use of telepathy so how about making the terminator sergeant in the squad I proposed earlier a psyker with Telepathy? It would fit the idea that they are there to help fleeing civilians; the psyker being able to telepathically move anything out of their way while also being very effective offensive unit when need be, making good use of their defensive gear to give them a leg up on the charge.

 

Also another name idea: Halcyon Wardens

[simison]

Ah, fair point. I do want to focus on purple since that is supposed to unifying power of the Imperium. Secondary colors I am open to. 

 

I'm not sure about the terminator unit itself, I like the idea of it, but I'm not sure I want that to be one of the signature units. Well, not the first couple though. I do like the idea of a sergeant upgrade to a psyker. The II Legion is supposed to be the most psyker legion after the Thousand Sons as evidenced by Alexandros powers. Originally, I was picturing an elite psyker unit, maybe something like the Eldar warlocks (?) that can be divided amongst the army. But the sergeant upgrade would be much simpler. So, thank you for pointing me in that direction.

 

As for the name, I've narrowed it down a little more. With the Raven Guard and Death Guard, I've decided to veer away from Guardians, and go with Wardens. That's half done. The other half I'm deciding between two themes of either Valor or Peace. On the peace side, I'd go with Halcyon Wardens as you mentioned, Slipstreams. On the Valor side, I have the Arete Wardens. I think Valor would encompass alot of what the II Legion aims for, but I can't think of a way to make it work that's better than the Halcyon Wardens. 

 

And that's where I currently stand: Halcyon Wardens, Arete Wardens, or some better version of Valor Wardens. 

[Fire Golem]

Purple and yellow? I think they work together...never been very good at colours...

[Slips]

Purple and yellow are good if you're going for very high contrast. That being said, if its JUST purple and yellow, it'd look quite...ugly (imo) but if you do, say, mainly Purple and Blue (similar colours) and splash in some yellow (contrasts both) in rather small quantities, then yes it could look good.

 

an example would be this "counts as" Alexis Polux from the Battle of Phall board from Forgeworld :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lxk-rBzzx1s/Umaxt_fms9I/AAAAAAAADCE/piioEbxv2Js/s640/Phall-26.jpg

[simison]

Hmmm, purple and yellow don't seem to work too well, though I thank you for the input fire golem. 

 

As for other colors, well, I like red. Blue is a relaxing color that could hint at the peace theme. Would silver be too close to the EC? Maybe green? 

 

Slipstreams, do you have any examples of those color combos or experience?

[Slips]

Hmm, no I don't have much of either sadly. I'm still procrastinating on painting my own Imperial Fists, after all

Youtube will always have some good basic color palette guides that you could use to try and decide on some basic colors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGuP9PAL2Wk&list=PL9ebBP_HRX5oZSGF2I2GVZUskp3v1hiDx

This is as good of a video as any to show you.

Edit: and Idea for metallics would be to avoid Gold / Silver. Imo they are overused in the Legions, not that its a bad thing, but theres so much more to use. So how about try using a Copper or Brass color with purple in stead of siler/gold? things like that I guess.

[Fire Golem]

Haha sorry! I'm slightly colourblind and I just am not good with what colours go. Thanks for that vid Slipstreams, I'll check it out too. Purple and Red could look cool...maybe..?

[simison]

I would like to think so, since red is my favorite color. I'll definitely check out the video when I'm at home when I can have sound again. 

[simison]

Had a break and got a chance to the color theory and text my wife, who's the true artist. She says purple and red will work fine, specifically a bright red (ie. Mephiston red) and a deep purple should work well. Thus, I now have my legion's tentative colors. And, I have a tentative legion name. So, for this post, I'm going to veer back to mechanics. I am going to create an Army Appendex list you can find in the Horus Heresy rule books. 

 

 

 

Crusade Army List Appendix: The Halcyon Wardens

Legiones Astartes (Halcyon Wardens)

 

The Space Marines of the Emperor's Legions are genetically engineered, psycho-indoctrinated warriors with superhuman abilities and minds and souls tempered for war. In addition each individual legion has its own idiosyncrasies and character - the product of their gene-seed and unique warrior culture.

 

The Halcyon Wardens always remembered that it they were created to serve and protect Humanity and not to simply kill their enemies. To this end, they have sought out the lost conclaves of Humanity and to bring them peaceably into the Imperium's fold, while enriching the lives of its current citizens. When the offer of reunion is rejected or the worlds of the Imperium find themselves under attack, the Wardens will don their shields and march out to meet their enemies to form a living, mobile wall between the enemy and their charges. Guided by the legion's psykers, they hold the line as their enemies batter themselves against their shields before launching precise counter-attacks to bring a quick end to the battle. 

 

 

"With my Father at our lead and my brothers and I to support him, what force in the galaxy can stop us? With victory guaranteed, we must make the Imperium's ascension as bloodless as possible so that all may enjoy the coming future of prosperity." 

 

-Alexandros Darshan VonSalim, speech given during victory celebration of the Liberation of Balov.

[simison]

All models and units with this special rule are subjected to the following provisions:

 

• Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties

 

And that concludes the easy part. I have a firm grasp on one special unit, the unique legion wargear, and what psychic powers they use, but I haven't even begun thinking about Legion wide special rules. I know there should be five at most. I'm just not sure how to translate the Wardens' philosophies here. 

 

 

One quick idea I had was to require Imperial Army allies to represent their protective nature and how the Wardens often work with human forces as they prosecute the Great Crusade. But when I gave it another minute of thought, that felt like it would fit better as a Rite of War. Maybe a special rule that gives a bonus when Imperial Army units are fielded? Or is that too narrow?

 

 

Another idea I had was the legion gains a victory point or a bonus every time an enemy unit retreated off the battle, a step closer to victory without blood. But I play in a meta where most of the armies have high leadership values, so I don't know if that rule would be over or under-powered. 

 

I appreciate any help here, while I continue trying to come up with good ideas and go through the current rule books.

[Slips]

Hmmm....

 

•Legion Astartes : Halcyon Wardens (provisional) : All units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties.

 

•Preeminent Defenders : All units with LA:HW equipped with a shield of any kind, gain +2 Initiative when charged. This bonus is lost in subsequent combat sub-phases beyond the first.

 

•Shields of the Imperium : All units with LA:HW and any Dreadnoughts part of a HW primary detachment confer a 4+ cover save to any non-Xenos units behind them. At least three models in a unit must be equipped with a shield of some kind to confer this bonus. Dreadnoughts ignore this restriction.

 

•Legion of Mentors: Any Halcyon Warders Primary Detachment may include up to 3 Legion Specific units that are not their own, limited by the Allied Matrix. Units chosen in such a manner retain their own specific Legion Astartes rules and any Benefits or Detriments that may confer.

 

•Master Negotiators : Starting at Turn 5, an army with the Halcyon Wardens as a Primary Detachment may opt, if they are winning by a maximum of 2 points, attempt to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the conflict. This is represented by a roll off between both players; the lower roll winning. If the Halcyon Wardens win, the game ends and is considered as a tie for Narrative Campaigns where such results enter into effect. Outside of such campaigns, the rule : To The Bitter End is then applied; forcing the game to go a full 6 turns instead of a roll to end the game being made.

[simison]

Wow, those are some impressive rules, Slipstreams. *takes a moment to think them over* Actually, those are some awesome rules! I just finished going through the current list of legion specific rules, so I have a working base to compare with. 

 

To start with, 'Shields of the Imperium', 'Preeminent Defenders' and 'Legion of Mentors' fit so well with the Wardens purpose that I'd like to use them as is. As I've mentioned, one of Alexandros' ideal is "Unity through Diversity", and tries to be a uniting force of the Imperium, whether it's the kaleidoscope portions of humanity or it's the differences between the legions. The only change I'd like to do is switch the name 'Legion of Mentors' to 'Bonds of Brotherhood', since it's the Wardens learning from their brothers as opposed to teaching them. 

 

'Master Negotiators' is the only one I'm not sure about. On the surface, I like the idea of it, ending a battle early when victory becomes apparent. But, why does the battle end in a draw if the Wardens win the roll? And in a single game, why does 'The Bitter End' ensue? I can see how that would happen if the Wardens lost the roll, but if they won the roll, why wouldn't the battle just ended in victory? 

[Slips]

Glad you liked most of them.

 

For  the Master Negotiators, I really had a Hard time getting a concrete idea down, so its not as refined as I wanted it to be. Your points are valid and may be the little bit I was missing to make it decent.

 

So lets say that, should they lose the roll, the battle is considered to the bitter end? If not they just win. Much simpler that way :P

[simison]

That's closer. And, in the span of 30k/Horus Heresy, I think the rule would work just as well. My last contention is how would this apply to xenos, and eventually Chaos forces? Strictly speaking, we could leave it at that, since the legion won't be involved in 40k in its current form. But, technically, the Orks, Dark Eldar, and the Eldar are still forces to reckon with in this timeline. Should I make a note regarding them? Or can I comfortably ignore them?

 

Regardless of that point, we have the necessary legion special rules to move onto the next area of rules: Legion-specific wargear.

[Slips]

Edit : misunderstood; re-writing it

You could make it so that its an option for the Player : Force Bitter End or Use Master Negotiator. However, against xenos you gain +1(or 2) to a maximum of 6 to the result when determining the outcome of Master Negotiator.

Legion specific wargear will be a bit trickier since we have information that items like the Storm Shield were restricted to the Salamanders and Imperial Fists because of they were still in their prototype stages at that point and thus in very limited production.

A quick Idea:

Diffraction Shield / Diffusal Shield +20pts

Confers a 4+ invulnerable save. However, models equipped with this item can never gain a bonus attack due to being armed with 2 close combat weapons.

Diffraction / Diffusal Blast : Due to experimental systems installed within the shield, successful saves release the mitigated energy of the attack that struck the shield in a concussive and blind flash.

D-Shield Blast : 12" S(weapon that hit the shield/2 rounded down) AP - Concussive, Blind

So, what this means is that, the harder the weapon that strikes the shield the harder is strikes back.

Example : Thunder Hammer hits shield, save is successful. a S4 AP - Concussive, Blind counter attack is made immediately afterwards, before any subsequent attacks by the same model are made.

Example 2 : A Lascannon hits the shield. Save is successful. Unit firing is outside of 12" and therefore is unaffected by the D-Shield Blast. If the Firer is within range, an S4 AP- Concussive, Blind hit is made.

This item can replace a Breacher Marines Shield for +15 Points.

Terminators May replace either their Melee Weapon or Ranged Weapon for one at +15 Points.

All Independent Characters with the rule LA:HW may replace either a ranged or melee weapon for one for +10 points in Terminator Armor or +15 Points in Power Armor.

All other units with the rule LA:HW MUST pay 20 points per model. This means you can technically equip a 20 man tactical squad with them but that would cost silly amounts of points. But, if you pay 60 for 3 shields, you can access to the Preeminent Defenders rule. However, only the shield equipped models gain +2 Initiative.

Edit; clarification : The D-Shield Blast only affects the unit that struck/shot at the shield bearer.

[caprera]

What about "Void Wardens" ?

[simison]

'Void Wardens' does sound good, but I'm not how void fits in with the current themes. Could you expound, caprera?

 

Slipstreams, when it comes to the storm shields, I was saddened to learn that the Fists were the 'first' ones to come up with its design. I'll make a note that in a Horus Heresy scenario, the II Legion is allowed to wield these powerful tools. But that means I'm going to cheat. Instead of a complete 3+ Invul save, I'll take a Tower Shield, which confers a 3++ in close combat and a 4++ against ranged attacks. The timeline is safe, and the II Legion still gets its elite shielding. 

 

That said, I do like your imagination, Slipstreams. Before I think more heavily about your idea, I want to know what my limits are when it comes to legion-specific gear. Going through the rulebooks, this is what I found.

 

Sons of Horus: Just 1  (Banestrike Ammo)

World Eaters: 2          (Chainaxes & Caedere Weapons)

Emperor's Children: 1    (Sonic Shriekers)

Death Guard: 2      (Chems & Scythes)

Iron Hands: 2   (Auto-sims & Cyber-Familiars)

Night Lords: 3!   (This is also the legion with a record of 5 legion-specific rules, are they Forgeworld's favorite?)

Salamanders: 4!!   (Never mind, the boys of fire pull ahead for the lead)

Word Bearers: 2

Iron Warriors: 2

Alpha Legion: 4   (I wasn't expecting that one.)

Imperial Fists: 4   

Raven Guard: 3

 

 

We have a three-way tie. I'm getting the general impression that as time goes on, Forgeworld is adding more and more. Now, this doesn't mean over-powering the later legions. (At least, not from what I just saw, though that would mean my future Blood Angels legion is going to be super awesome.) No, some of the later upgrades were pretty small or some wargear choices came with drawbacks. So, we're just talking about more variety as time goes on, which I do like. 

 

But this does mean that I have to a 4 item limit, which is pushing it a little bit. The only legions with four are the Alpha Legion (who probably steal everything), the Imperial Fists (defending Terra gives nice bonuses), and the Salamanders (who make everything). The only way I can justify a large inventory is by emphasizing the legion brotherhood aspect. 3 would be more comfortable.

 

Now, I did want three levels of shields because I was going to incorporate them as a Warden cultural status. The more elite the space marine, the more elite shield. Hence, one of the earliest ideas I had locked on was having combat shields, storm shields, and a mid-point between them. Well, storm shields are out, but the tower shields will work fine. So, that's where you're shields come in, Slipstreams. I was simply going to make a 4 or 5++ shield, but your ideas are very intriguing.

 

Unfortunately, I have to take care of something right now, and we'll continue this train of thought later. Hopefully tonight. 

[Slips]

Well, the good thing about a forum is you can always do anything at any time really

As for the Idea of shields :

If the only thing your Legion brings to the table in terms of Wargear is shields of varying effectiveness and ability (denoted by the Units status, etc) then, that would become, imo, quite bland quite rapidly.

I think you should find a theme, which you already did : Defenders of Humanity

Next find their preferred combat method when they can't defend or are forced to go on the offensive : Assault / Counter-Assault Focus.

Finally, how could you give options for the varying play styles you encounter? Sure, you're highly likely to be the only one playing this particular Legion, but that doesn't mean you won't get tired of repetitive themes. So, what I propose in terms of wargear would be the easiest split : Melee, Ranged, Defensive/Support.

For Defensive / Support, you've got the shields that easily fit into this category. You could even fit up to 3 subtypes of, say, the tower shield into a single entry. The only difference between them would be either : a more melee centric ability, a more Ranged Focused one and a more Defensive one.

Using my above shield idea as an example:

•Melee Centric : D-Shield Blast rule.

•Range Centric : A Gravitonic Emitter Integrated into the Shields Systems that slow down the speed at which incoming projectiles hit (lowering their AP or Strength) and Slowing down anyone attempting to get into melee range to potentially buy them some time to reposition. This one might have to end up costing more if we add both effects or just use one of them (probably the melee slowing one, seems the safest choice) to bring it into line and not make them TOO good of a choice.

•Defensive / Support Centric : A magnetic smoke-field dispenser that gives the unit shrouded and due to the interference caused by the Magnetic particles in the cloud, disrupt any Deepstrike Attempts made within a certain distance of the squad (either forcing a mishaps or a delayed result). This would also force any units charging into them to either get -1 Initiative because of the sudden disorientating cloud that messes with their communications. On top of giving the Squad +2 Initiative because of LA:HW.

These can obviously be expanded upon by others as they see fit since I'm literally coming up with all of this on the spot.

A Melee Option would be, say, a grapple weapon of some kind, limited to one per squad (probably the sergeant in the case of non assault, Terminator or Legion Specialist units).

Here is a basic outline of the rules I envisioned for this, keeping in mind that I'm sticking to the theme of Defender.

•Grapple (literally couldn't think up a name on the spot..)

-Range: melee / 4" (cannot target units with a base size of 40mm or greater for the purpose of the ranged attack)

-Strength : User

-AP : 4

-Grapple-rule, Shred and/or Rending, Constrictor

•Grapple Rule : A model successfully hit by this weapon and not removed from play (due to a successful armor save,etc) is grappled by the weapon and brought into Base to Base contact with the Wielder and can only strike him in combat. This is not a challenge. *kinda iffy on this, not too sure where I wanted to go with this but hopefully it gives you a general idea

•Constrictor : Models under the Effect of Grapple-Rule (provisional pending a better name ) Roll a D6

ALL EFFECTS LISTED BELOW LAST UNTIL THE END OF THE TURN. ADDITIONALLY ONLY ONE MODEL PER GRAPPLE CAN BE AFFECTED BY THESE RULES.

-On a 1-2 the Models Legs A restricted and cannot flee from combat if the unit it is part of Flees for whatever reason. Should he be left behind and the player controlling the Grapple wielding unit NOT make a Sweeping Advance (or fail to do so) this model is removed from play as a casualty. If the Model under the Grapple Rule is an Independent Character, they may continue combat with none of the above penalties and are considered as having been detached from the Squad they Joined.

-On a 3-4 The models Arms are restricted and the models weapons are counted as having the 'Unwieldy' Rule should it not already have it. Additionally, the Model loses One (1) attack.

-On a 5-6 The models Body is restricted. The Model loses 1 initiative which cannot be reduced below 1.

So, technically, if you use the Grapple-whip-thing at 4" range, you could grapple a model from a unit, drag it to you and and remove it from play as a casualty with no saves.

Thats all I could come with for now, so, yeah, Feedback (from anyone really) is welcome and would love to hear about what anyone thinks of this.

[simison]

I know I technically have all the time in the world. But you never know when life is going to sideline you, and we've got an excellent run going here.  Something which I'd like to keep going. 

 

I agree that merely having three levels of shields is rather bland idea, and I apologize for mis-speaking. I want three layers of shields, but I originally thought 2 out of the 3 were still standard throughout the legions, the storm and combat shield. (That's on me for not doing a more thorough reading of the rulebooks.) But even with having to recreate the storm shield, the combat shield was always going to fulfill one of the three shields, so I never intended to devote all 3 of my items to just being shields. Because that would be boring, and I want to create a codex worthy of fielding next to the official ones. 

 

Thus, I think it's time we highlighted the other two tentative specialties of the Wardens: the psykers and the assault tanks. Using your themes of Melee, Ranged, & Defense/Support, let's see if we can something to fit here. To help come up with the items, I'm going to give skip ahead to reveal my basic ideas for the Legion-specific units.

 

 

The first one is obvious. A terminator/artificer squad armed with power weapons and the Tower shield. That easily fits in Defense.

 

Next are the psykers. As I've mentioned before, I envisioned the II Legion to be the most psyker-heavy after the Thousand Sons, which I'm thinking about tying into a gene-defect. Unlike the Thousand Sons, which study the whole range of psyker options, Alexandros sees Divination and Telepathy as the only ones deserving focus, and his legion will reflect that. This is not to say you can't have a Warden psyker with Biomancy, Pyromancy, etc, it's just not going to be as common. And the reason these are the focus is because it's the two that enhance Alexandros' statesmanship and ability to read the human soul. As hinted throughout this thread, Alexandros is fascinated with humanity even as he is forced to stand apart from them. How I'm thinking about translating this into a legion unit was either giving an upgrade sergeants throughout the legion or having a psyker detachment, like the apothecaries. 

 

I've been thinking about the librarian hood as a possible legion wargear. Thing is, I'm not sure where or when it hits the scene. But instead of helping shield the psykers, it'll act as a booster, allowing them to fulfill the Support.

 

Now for the assault tanks, I was thinking about a sort of ace pilot upgrade, giving them a +1 BS. Not very imaginative, I know, but possibly very destructive. I wanted them to bounce between ranged fire to force the enemy into attacking and transporting the heavy infantry to the strategic points of the battlefield. There's Range.

 

Which leaves Melee, something I realized I was missing about halfway into writing this post. The current, and off the top of my head idea, idea is an unique kind of power sword or spear. However, that might fit better into the unique elite infantry unit I was thinking about, so I'm not sure. 

 

The grapple is interesting idea, but I'm worried it's too bloated with rules within rules. Though, if I renamed it, I'd be so very tempted to call it the hookshot. 

[Black Cohort]

I would be careful about allowing your legion to take other legions unique units. Only the alpha legion can currently do so and has to use a rite of war. What if instead you could have up to 3 units use a different legion's special rules? This would still allow you to emphasize that aspect while being different from the alpha legion way.

[simison]

Missed that one. Haven't started looking at the Rites yet. Thanks for the catch, and I like your proposal. Still needs to be limited by the Allies of matrix, but with that, it stands better and keeps the rule unique as I wanted it. Thank you, Black Cohort.

[Black Cohort]

Missed that one. Haven't started looking at the Rites yet. Thanks for the catch, and I like your proposal. Still needs to be limited by the Allies of matrix, but with that, it stands better and keeps the rule unique as I wanted it. Thank you, Black Cohort.

Agreed you should limit it by the allied matrix. Maybe 3 units if the other legion is battle brothers or 1 for allies of convenience? I would also prevent this from being used to take HQ choices other than centurions and clarify if these units can take legion specific wargear.

[simison]

Wait, I'm confused. According to the revised rule, the II legion can field other legion specific units without allying, while they could in the old rule. Is there a limit to fielding them as allies with their special units?

[Slips]

I'd say, the "limited by the allies matrix" is :

 

•Sworn Brothers : up to 2 Legion specific units from a SINGLE Legion. Limit of 3 Legion Specific Units. Units/Models That are Independant Characters or HQ cannot be taken in this manner. (ie deathshroud [Those are the ones, right? :P] cannot be taken, if they were BB with Legio 2)

•Fellow Warriors : Only 1 Legion Specific unit from a single legion. Limit of 2. 

•Distrusted Allies : Only 1 Legion Specific Unit form a Single Legion. Limit of 1.

•By the X's Command : None may be taken.

 

IE: you can take 3 sworn brother units, but you can mix and match with fellow warriors. However, for the (3) limit, you cannot have more than 2 Fellow Warriors Units.

Ex: SB are : ultra, Sally, BA, EC. FellowW are : Imperial Fists, Raven Guard and Thousand Sons. So, in a HW you could never have both the Imperial Fists Templars OR Phalanx Warders. You could, however, have the IF Templars AND Raven Guard Mor Deythan.

For Sworn Brothers, you could have both Fire Drakes and Pyroclasts.

 

This is how I'd differentiate it from the RoW of the Alpha Legion since theirs is much more Liberal in usage but comes with predetermined restrictions due to the RoW. This however is inherently limited since it comes as standard for the Legion as a whole.

 

Maybe have this rule only usable when you have a character with the "Master of the Legion" rule but not force the taking of a Rite of War?