The Renegade Legion

[Black Cohort]

Wait, I'm confused. According to the revised rule, the II legion can field other legion specific units without allying, while they could in the old rule. Is there a limit to fielding them as allies with their special units?

I thought it should be limited only to generic units from other legions, so for example an iron hands breacher unit but not Gorgons. Essentially allowing you to field allied stuff within your force org instead of an allied force org. Thus letting you field only a fast attack choice for example, instead of having to field an HQ and troop choice as well. Normal allies should also be allowed.

 

EDIT: doing this should still allow the unit to take legion specific wargear. Though it might be more interesting if that was second legion specific wargear instead of their own legion's.

[simison]

Ah, I see where the mix-up was on my end. I thought you meant having II Legionnaires mimicking the special rules of other legions instead of having other legion squads being allowed in a Warden detachment in addition to an allied detachment. Silly me. 

[simison]

Moving on, for the psyker wargear I was thinking of a headpiece to affect their powers as they support the legion. For those who haven't been following along the companion topic in the fanfiction forum, I've decided to combine ancient Greek and Indian cultural themes into the II Legion. Of course, the Greek theme is more prevalent, but 40k/30K have never been too concerned with political correctness, so whatever. Continuing along the main thought, I was wondering if I should have a turban be the unique wargear. Perhaps make it out of some kind of psionic material, which exists in 40k, and have it enhance power/control. Maybe it should come with an armor penalty, but honestly, how many space marines go into battle without their helmet anyway? Unlike the Tower shield, I was thinking of a cheaper wargear, especially since the psykers can come pretty expensive point-wise. 

 

Tentative idea:

Pugaree - 5 points - Adds +1 to Perils of the Warp roll  

 

Or maybe: 

- Allows one reroll of Warp Charge Die

 

I'm welcome to feedback. I'm looking for something cheap, but significant. 

[Black Cohort]

Either of your ideas should work.  Another I had was to gain either extra successes on a roll or auto pass manifesting a psychic power, but it would automatically cause a perils of the warp roll.

[simison]

So, a friend of mine and long-time 40k player suggested that since all records will be expunged, is there any reason not to have Storm shields? The Imperial Fists and Salamanders can claim to be the first ones, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. The books do start with a remembrancer reciting what he knows about the Heresy after the fact. 

 

Thoughts? I really do want the storm shields, but I am trying to create something official enough that you could slide it next to actual Horus Heresy books.

[Slips]

True. It would make sense thematically for them to have their own variant storm shield anyways.

[Augustus]

How about Winged Guardians. Or the Kindred Guardians

[Russ Brother 92]

I'm truth I fear that then people wouldn't see them as much different from IFs, I'd suggest going with the tower shields on terminators, but not storm shields as then added to the defensive pre-eminence plus the stuff about taking units from other legions it could feel a)OP due to cherry picking and b)that your IInd are merely a mash-up of XXth and VIIth, which we know it isn't - I love the fluff sofar but perhaps have focus with defensive tactics - tbh I am writing this on my phone on the way to work so ymmv. I do however comend your fluff and design skills.

[Black Cohort]

Perhaps the tower shield would also confer the benefits of defensive grenades? Thus making it a much more defensive item.

[simison]

So much feedback, I love it! 

 

To Augustus, I think between the Dark and Blood Angels, there's enough wings represented in the legions, and I'm the Wardens are more 'grounded' as a legion, both both in tactics and in spirit. Kindred Guardians is a solid title, but I've played too much Vampire: The Masquerade. Every time I think 'kindred' I think vampire, which is the Blood Angel area. It really is a good title though, thanks for the input.

 

Russ brother, you bring up valuable points. Nate, the friend I've mentioned earlier and pretty much my 40k mentor, said that a +2 Initiative was too much and didn't fit in well compared to a +1 Toughness. An Initiative bonus would fit better if they were using power spears/lances. Now, I realize that only affects half of the primary issue you bring up, that the II Legion doesn't have enough character to distinguish it, but perhaps the Tower shield and the other two unique legion units will fill in the rest of its identity. Thank you for your encouragement too. Part of the way I'm writing this out is I'm hoping to create a template for other people to make their own legions, hence the detailed posts on matching points to models and listing the other legions' wargears.

 

Black Cohort, that could work better than what I was thinking. I was originally picturing the Tower Shield to have a 3++ for ranged and a 4++ in close combat. But maybe a straight 4++ with the defensive grenades would be much more effective. 

 

Finally, the third legion item. I'm not sure, since the earlier mention of the ace pilot would fit under legion-specific unit. My first (and now very ironic) thought was to have an item for melee or shooting that had ties to the legion closest to the II legion as allies. Who that is? Don't know. Perhaps I should take a moment to hammer out the II Legion's ally matrix.

[Russ Brother 92]

I was thinking the Ace Pilot could be your unit upgrade - it is quite fluffy for the Legion, I'd perhaps change it to either allowing the unit to ignore difficult terrain if in a ground based vehicle or +1 to junk saves if in a flyer? Other ideas are your original +1 BS or perhaps allowing the tank/flyer to fire (1) more weapon than usual if they have moved (so Flat Out! but still able to fire one weapon etc.)?

 

Unsure on points cost - perhaps 25pts per model?

 

I do like the idea of emphasizing the defensive nature via a mildly buffed tower shield (the 4++) and defensive grenades - perhaps 15-20pts per man? Dependant on whether it's a character or average joe terminator.

[Black Cohort]

Firing one more weapon with an ace pilot seems more like a white scar trait to me. But ignoring difficult terrain (except when moving flat out?) Or increased BS should work.

 

Perhaps to emphasize their defensive nature your legion can buy enhanced smoke launchers that allow them to be used more than once per game and/ or snap fire through their own smoke?

 

Also 15 points for +1 invulnerable save and defensive grenades in exchange for losing a weapon seems too much on single wound models, especially since the current rules would only give Cataphractii defensive grenades.

 

I think it should be worded as follows.

 

Tower shield

Grants +1 to the model's invulnerable save and counts as defensive grenades. Models with a tower shield can never benifit from having two close combat weapons. Costs 10 points for single wound models or 15 points for multi-wound models. Available to terminator squads, command squads and characters.

 

As for unique units what role do you want them to have on the table?

[Russ Brother 92]

@Black Cohort - currently there aren't any heresy terminators which have defensive grenades, the only way to access then is by buying the upgrade for the unit character (Sgts and Character models can take them) even then they are a 1-use item, they can be taken by any terminators no matter what armour type is used.

[Black Cohort]

@Black Cohort - currently there aren't any heresy terminators which have defensive grenades, the only way to access then is by buying the upgrade for the unit character (Sgts and Character models can take them) even then they are a 1-use item, they can be taken by any terminators no matter what armour type is used.

I realize that, just to me it is more of a 10 point rather than 15-20 point upgrade. Perhaps it should only count as defensive grenades if the entire unit has them? That would prevent people only taking one for the grenade benifits.

[Russ Brother 92]

I'd go for that - sorry I misread what you put, making it a 'whole unit' effect would imo work well, plus it serves as an incentive to arming them all with the shields.

[Slips]

So much feedback, I love it! 

 

To Augustus, I think between the Dark and Blood Angels, there's enough wings represented in the legions, and I'm the Wardens are more 'grounded' as a legion, both both in tactics and in spirit. Kindred Guardians is a solid title, but I've played too much Vampire: The Masquerade. Every time I think 'kindred' I think vampire, which is the Blood Angel area. It really is a good title though, thanks for the input.

 

Russ brother, you bring up valuable points. Nate, the friend I've mentioned earlier and pretty much my 40k mentor, said that a +2 Initiative was too much and didn't fit in well compared to a +1 Toughness. 

I decided on +2 initiative when suggesting it because Phalanx Warders kinda have the same rule for their unit but at +1 initiative :P

[simison]

Awesome replies, guys. Thanks for taking the time to throw some input in here. 

 

Slipstreams, read what you said and immediately checked out the entry. You are indeed correct, and I will need to think a little more about which bonus to give. I guess the most appropriate bonus would be tied to the actual actions of the space marines. The Wardens defense is supposed to be represented by a moving, shifting wall ready to absorb the worst even as they prepare to strike back, unlike the IF which I envision as more of a daunting fortress. A toughness bonus would emphasize the ability to absorb hits, while the initiative would reflect more on their mobility and ready to strike. The toughness bonus would be active at all times, while the initiative would be limited to the first round of close combat, as suggested by Nate and Slipstreams. I'd like to hear one more round of viewpoints before I make the call.

 

Black Cohort and Russ brother, since y'all bounced back and forth, I'll reply to you both at the same time. I've grown to like the idea of turning the Tower Shield from a 4++ invul with defensive grenades to just a +1 Invul save. When I first started making the II Legion, I took a look at the Cataphractii terminators and thought I should veer away from them, due to Justaerians. But the more I thought about it, the Cataphractii suits are a better fit, especially since the name is originally greek. Making the Tower Shield a +1 Invul would give me the 3++ of the Storm Shield without negating current invul saves. 

 

And, I agree that when bought, the entire unit should have Tower Shields as opposed to model by model. Nate recommended that to begin with and it makes sense. He suggested a flat 50 points to give the entire unit the Tower Shields, no matter unit size. Thoughts?

 

For the Ace Pilot upgrade, let me give more background on what I was picturing. With such an emphasis on heavy infantry, it would be up to the assault tanks to provide the necessary mobility to move them into position to counter the enemy and it would be their firepower that would force the enemy to move into close quarters or risk being shot up (ideally, at least). Which, when I think about it, might be unfair since I'm trying to get the best of both worlds of firepower and mobility. 

 

Russ brother, I am interested in the ability to move and fire more, would that not be like the lucifer engines on the Blood Angels' vehicles? (Which was always an interesting idea, since the Blood Angels were supposed to be known for their air assault attacks, but anyway). That would be a vehicle wargear that would give both firing and mobility, though it would have to come with a hefty price tag. Black Cohort, I confess, the White Scars are nowhere to be found in my gaming store so I'm not familiar with their vehicles. Do they do the same thing as the Blood Angels?

 

Also, Black Cohort, I have three unique units I've tentatively created. 

 

One was the ace pilot as we've discussed.

 

The second was a psyker detachment, like the apothecaries. The 'Parisada' (placeholder name) would compose up to 3-5 psykers, each capable of being upgraded to level 2 psyker mastery and then being attached to different squads throughout the legion list. They can only choose between the disciplines of Divination & Telepathy, and would be allowed 1 reroll when rolling for powers per mastery level. 

 

The third would be the elite terminator unit every legion has. The Myrmidon would be Cataphractii Terminator unit of the Wardens, using the Tower Shields as standard gear and an advanced power weapon, either spear or sword. Throw in a special rule or two, and viola. 

[Black Cohort]

I may have missed something, but are you talking about a different shield in the first paragraph?

 

50 points flat for the entire unit should work for Tower shields on terminators, will you let HQ choices take them?

 

I think +1BS for ace pilot is the easiest.

 

White scars don't have any special rules for vehicles in 40k but they are all about speed.  Their chapter tactics give huge buffs to bikes and hit and run to all non-vehicles except centurions and terminators.  But I would stay away from rules that allow you to move farther and shoot, that seems like Blood Angel and White Scar territory.

 

As for the other unique units

 

The psykers sound cool, I am assuming that there are fluff reasons for only the 2 disciplines?  Also what kind of wargear would they have access to?

 

As for the terminators maybe that is where you could put the defensive grenades to give you a rock hard defensive unit.  Also have you considered giving them a shoulder mounted weapon?  I was thinking some kind of suppression weapon, not awesome at damaging the enemy, but good at pinning them down.  Something like S3 AP- Rapid fire 18in blind, pinning.  Or shoulder mounted grav guns.  Either way a weapon system more designed to mess with the enemy rather than kill them.  regardless you are going to need something to make them different from just giving a regular terminator squad power weapons and tower shields.

[Slips]

For shoulder Mounted Terminator Gear :

 

I had the Idea for like a Grav Generator that projected a 180 degree, 6" front facing half-circle that : 

•Non-Terminator units lose (either/or) 1 attack or 1 initiative so long as they are inside the field (this can target friendly/allied units).

•For Terminator Units reduce charge range by 1-2 inches and maybe 1 initiative too?

 

Either be Sergeant Equipped or 1 per 5. 10-20 points. Then again if this is the Legion Specific, maybe make it base for sergeant that 1 extra at 10 men.

 

I'm not too sure about this. Coming up for Grav Weapon rules is tricky since they can either be too weak to too strong.

[simison]

Black Cohort, I was comparing the Tower Shield to the Storm Shield. There was some rambling in there, so I'm not surprised that it got lost somewhere. And yes, I want HQ units to have access as well. I'm tempted to use the Salamander pointages for their Storm Shields, adding another 5 points for the defensive grenades effect.

 

+1 BS it is. Just need either an Indian or Japanese title. 

 

The fluff reason was that Alexandros favored and was the most gifted at these 2 disciplines. Unlike Magnus, Alex eschewed the more flashy and sorcerous powers. So, it's a combo of gene-seed and following in their gene-father's footsteps. At least, that was the reason I had. Now, I'm not so sure. Because Alex can use the other powers, he just chooses not to. Maybe I should turn that into an optional upgrade, either be a normal psyker or follow the Parisada school. 

 

As for wargear, the psyker turban is one, any of the force weapons, any of the shield choices, and the rest of the Centurion entry. 

 

I like the weapon idea, and definitely want either a pinning or morale check weapon. Preferably morale since we'd rather send the enemy running then pin them. In that regard, grav weaponry doesn't seem ideal. Perhaps a rocket/grenade launcher armed with a fear-inducing agent? I do agree with Slipstreams that since it is legion-specific, the sarge will get one base. For the special rule, perhaps it is here that I put the bonus (initiative or toughness) I don't choose for the legion?

[simison]

Okay after a really stressful day, I'm going to take a break from all of the wargear/units/rules to do something that I've really been interested in doing for a bit. Establishing the relationship between the II Legion and its brother legions. Now, as evidenced by 'Bonds of Brotherhood', they actively cultivate stronger relations between them and the others. Ideally, all of the legions will work well together. Of course, reality says 'screw that! Conflict is more fun!' so despite the best efforts of the II, not all can truly be called battle brothers. 

 

For this list, I'm going to go down the other legions in alphabetical order with three caveats. 

 

Caveat #1, timing. (Quick word of warning, I'm basing most of this info found in the Great Crusade in the warhammer 40k wiki. If anyone knows any more authoritative sources, please chime in.) Apparently, it took a few years for the Emperor to find Horus, then about 30 years to find Leman Russ. The Great Crusade started 798.M30, so by the time Leman is found, it's 828.M30. We're left with 137 years before the Cataclysm hits the II Legion. Going by Deliverance Lost, Corax never meets Alexandros, so that's three Primarchs Alexandros never meets. With 40 years between the Cataclysm and the end of the Great Crusade, I'm also going to omit Night Haunter and Angron. 

 

All said and done, 5 Primarchs will never meet with Alexandros. At least, in 'canon'. Now, when I finish my list, I will include these five (minus the XI Legion), both for an alternate universe where the Wardens never have the Cataclysm and for games where these last 5 armies are possible allies.

 

 

Caveat #2, the guideline. Like others on this site, I will be using http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/X.html for inspiration, but not as hard rules. 

 

Caveat #3, chance. Sometimes, life and friends are decided in a single moment. For several of the primarchs, it is possible for them to become the closest of friends or the bitterest of rivals based on how the first few interactions happen. Sometimes, it just happens at the wrong place or at the wrong time, or both. For these, I will roll a die to determine the actual outcome. 

 

Now, lastly, I'm going to record the record holders (har har) of the allies chart both for amusement and to help give other legion builders ideas.

Battle Brothers: Salamanders with 9 entries!

Fellow Warriors: Dark Angels & White Scars with 14 entries

Distrusted Allies: Word Bearers & Alpha Legions with 12 entries

By Order!: Night Lords with 3 Entries

 

So, outright hatred is rare, but definitely more Distrust than Brotherhood around here. Though everyone seems to have trouble not liking the Salamanders. I honestly wasn't expecting so many Battle Brother entries with a single legion. But it's time to measure the Wardens with....the next post. Quick break as I get a drink!

[simison]

Dark Angels - Battle Brothers - Despite an earlier rivalry between the first two legions, Alexandros puts the past in the past and works to create a bond of friendship utilizing their mirroring masteries of strategy. While the Lion possesses an innate expertise in the art, the Strategos is able to replicate it through his mastery of divination and reading the opposing leader's minds from great distances. The process takes an extraordinary amount of effort and patience on Alexandros' part, but is worded with the Lion's complete trust. Signified by an actual joke from the Lion. 

 

Emperor's Children - Battle Brothers - The Legions of Purple get along easily, aided by their mutual statuses as diplomats of the legions. This is further aided by the primarch's shared interest in artistry. Of course, Alexandros willingness to yield glory to Fulgrim in their allied campaigns has cemented their relationship further. 

 

Iron Warriors - D3 roll

1 - Battle Brothers - Although initial meetings went poorly due to Alexandros' outward personality and Perturabo's inward personality, the two became the closest of friends over their mutual desire to end conflicts through words alone. The trust between the two would be guaranteed when Perturabo revealed some of his architectural designs to Alexandros. The two form complimentary forces with Perturabo providing the necessary power to destroy enemy fortresses while Alexandros handles field armies, protecting the Iron Warriors as they go about their work.

 

2 - Distrustful Allies - Mismatching personalities prevent anything of significance coming to the fore.

 

3 - By Order! - Perturabo resents his brother's ability to bring his enemies down by his words, wishing that he too may wield such but is forever unable to do so. This bitterness causes Perturabo to reject any overture of friendship from Alexandros. 

 

 

White Scars - Battle Brothers - The Khan is so often overlooked by his brothers to the point of frustration. Only two brothers have always kept the Khan in his mind: Horus and Alexandros. While others are off-put by the Scars weak organization and their barbaric image, the Strategos is fascinated by the strange ways of his brother and has gone on several hunts with the Khan. Their sons form a truly terrifying force as the White Scars mobility compensates the Wardens slow speed, while the endurance of the Wardens absorbs damage that would lay waste to the Scars. 

 

Space Wolves - Battle Brothers - The outward, energetic natures of both primarchs has led to an undying friendship between the two, aided by Alexandros' restraint in his psyker powers. Both have learned a great deal from the other as have their sons. Due to this, the Cataclysm would permanently scar both Leman Russ and his legion. 

 

Imperial Fists - D2

Evens 2,4,6 - Fellow Warriors - Two of the idealistic Primarchs would lead to a powerful brotherhood. Most would think, at least. And, while the Strategos and the Praetorian of Terra enjoy a good friendship, little things have kept them from having anything more. Little things such as Dorn's unwavering belief in all of the Imperium's ideals, while Alexandros struggles with some of the tenants. Their sons have unintentionally created a rivalry, trying to prove who is truly the superior in defensive warfare. 

 

Odds 1,3,5 - Distrusted Allies - Alexandros' open questioning of parts of the Imperial creed and has caused Dorn to turn a wary eye on his brother. This wariness and suspicion has spread throughout his legion, lending a more bitter rivalry between the two legions.

 

[Night Lords - D2

Evens - Battle Brothers - Alexandros has made it his private mission to spend some time with each of his brothers. Yet, his meeting with Konrad would prove to be the most dramatic of all. Meeting with the Night Haunter on Terra before the future madman would ascend to legion control would prove decisive. Upon meeting, Night Haunter's innate divination of death began, but was recognized and ended by the Seer. The Seer would quickly offer his prowess to aid the Night Haunter. Given brief reprieve from the maddening visions, Konrad agreed. Alexandros would go on to teach Konrad to master his ability, going as far to offer his own mind as sanctam to Konrad. The time spent together was tensed, filled with moments of danger as Konrad fought against his past. But, by the end, Konrad was much more stable and had a confidante if he needed one, while Alexandros blind optimism was tempered with his close interactions with Insanity itself. 

 

Odds - By Order! - Having heard of Alexandros' reputation, Curze refused any kind of meeting and made sure the two never crossed paths. Combined with the blood-filled philosophies of the Night Lords, the Wardens never volunteered to fight with their brothers and no Warden chose the VIII legion for cross-campaigning.]

 

Blood Angels - Battle Brothers - While Dorn and Alexandros find their ideals to be a conflicting point, no such barrier existed between the Seer and the Angel. Their close friendship is enhanced by how well their armies compliment each other with the Wardens maintaining control of the ground war with the Blood Angels dominating the skies. 

 

Iron Hands - D3

 

1 - Battle Brothers - Although one brother is focused on machines and the other on humanity, the two have formed a good friendship as their different specialties work well in tandem. Ferrus is able to keep Alex from getting ahead of himself, while Alex encourages Ferrus to be less machine-like. The Iron Hands provide a necessary link to the metallic with the Wardens strained relationship with Mars.

 

2 - Fellow Warriors - While relations could be closer, alternate philosophies cause differences to be highlighted, but not to a detriment extreme.

 

3 - Distrusted Allies - With the emphasis on human life, the Wardens find the Iron Hands stance against flesh to be offensive, while the Iron Hands believe the Wardens are in denial about their transhuman state, foolishly pursuing humanity. 

 

 

(Going to have a stop point here for another break)

[simison]

(That break lasted much longer because of my friends' internet. Let's see if I can finish this before the night is over.)

 

[XI - ???? - Best buds! Or worst enemies! You tell me.]

 

[World Eaters - By Order! - Angron and the World Eaters are at the polar opposite of what the Wardens represented. Even before Angron's ascension, the War Hounds were treated with disgust and contempt for their wild rage. Alexandros met Angron once. And immediately came to the conclusion that the Butcher's Nail in Angron's head must be removed. Even if it ended with Angron's death, Alex believed that to a far better fate than the personal hell that Angron existed in. He has privately petitioned the Emperor, then Horus for this to happen.]

 

Ultramarines - D2

Evens - Battle Brothers - Both masters of politics, albeit different styles, the two brothers work well together and bond over their different experiences. The Ultramarines well-roundedness can compensate for the weaknesses the Wardens sometimes face in battle.

 

Odds - Fellow Warriors - Same, but less pronounced.

 

Death Guard - D2 

Evens - Distrusted Allies - Although Alex understands and even respects Mortarion's views and strategy, it still grates him the way his brother treats life. Mortarion finds Alex's optimism naive and his pysker powers as a warning sign.

 

Odds - By Order! - The first meeting not only didn't go well, it ended with a disaster, forever separating the two legions.

 

Thousand Sons - D4

Battle Brothers - With both legions containing the most psykers, the two share much in identity and in experiences. Yet, their different styles allow the two to learn from each other.

 

Fellow Warriors - While most familiar with psyker warfare, Magnus' arrogance, mirrored by some in his legion, have made deep friendship hard to establish. Despite this, the two legions respect and learn from each other.

 

Distrusted Allies - Though both are tied to psykers, Magnus is annoyed that Alexandros takes such a limited approach to the art and urges him to move forward. Alexandros has patiently listened, but is beginning to resent this. The Thousand Sons take after their father and often chide the Wardens for not fully embracing their talents.

 

By Order! - A combination of arrogance and brutal honesty ensured that these two legions, so alike, remained far apart. 

 

Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves - Fellow Warriors - Though both statesman beyond compare, Horus' focus on overwhelming assault fits uneasily with Alexandros, while Alexandros' incredibly high regard for life is regarded as foolish by Horus. Still, their criticisms of the other are kept civil and the two legions operate fine enough.

 

Word Bearers - D2

Battle Brothers - In Lorgar, Alexandros found someone he could reveal one of his few secrets: he doesn't agree with the militant atheism enforced by their father. Though he is not a true believer himself, Alex finds the doctrine limited and potentially harmful. Lorgar is over-joyed to find someone who is not intolerant of his faith and the two become close allies. Likewise, the Word Bearers are able to confide in the Wardens, while the Wardens are able to enjoy a friendship that isn't tainted by fears of their psyker powers.

 

Fellow Warriors - Though finding common ground on faith, the two are unable to truly capitalize due to their differing opinions in the details. 

 

Salamanders - Battle Brothers - United in their compassion and defense of humanity, the Wardens and Salamanders enjoy each other's company.

 

(Power dying on laptop. I'll finish the last 2 legions and the Imperial Army and Mechanicum when I get home.)

[simison]

[Raven Guard - Fellow Warriors - The two primarchs respect each other's strategic specialties, but Corax personally believes that Alexandros' methods are a little wasteful and could benefit from a little guile.] 

 

[Alpha Legion - By Order! - Under no circumstance has any Alpha legionnaire been allowed to be near the infamous Seer and the Parisada. The Alpha Legion will not take any chances that they're secrets be revealed by anyone.]

 

Imperial Army - Battle Brothers - Nothing brightens the common soldier's spirits quite like a Warden detachment. The Wardens are one of the favorites of the Imperial Army, who know that they will be valued and defended from threats beyond their ability to fight. 

 

Adeptus Mechanicum - Fellow Warriors - While there are various Wardens who study with the Mechanicum beyond the Forge Lords, the scions of Mars do not generally gel well with the humanity-focused Wardens. 

 

 

 

There, got them all done and before midnight too. Bonus. Without accounting for the allies to be determined by the dice, we have 7 Battle Brothers, 3 Fellow Warriors, 0 Distrusted Allies, and 2 By Order! 

 

Now that I have a wide-view of the ground, I'm going to remove a couple of the rolls. At the very least, some legions need to be in the Distrusted Allies. Not even the Salamanders are without that. But that is work that will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

As always, I enjoy hearing from the community, encouragement, suggestions, and plain ol' feedback. 

[simison]

Alright, one more step to completing this chart. As mentioned yesterday, I am removing a couple of the rolls because some of the spots need to be filled. I need a couple of Distrusted Allies. By Order! is fine as it is, and I'm placing a maximum of 11 Battle Brothers for an initial guideline. I'm not worried about adding more to the Fellow Warrior bracket.

 

The 'Roll' legions left are:

Iron Warriors

Imperial Fists

Night Lords

Iron Hands

Ultramarines

Death Guard

Thousand Sons

Word Bearers

 

And a D100 for the XI Legion. Ha!

 

With By Order! good, I am going to move the Death Guard straight into the Distrusted Allies. I'm going to let bitter rivalry win out between the Wardens and the Fists, so they'll go into the Distrusted Allies as well. 

 

The Night Lords are going to be a special case that I'll address at the end of this post. 

 

I think it's time to bring in fate, starting with the Iron Hands. I'll be using Invisible Castle for this and will post the page with the results. 

 

Fate Decrees - Iron Hands - (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4666670/) - 2 - Fellow Warriors

 

Oh well, solid result. Moving onto the Ultramarines.

 

Fate Decrees - Ultramarines - (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4666679/) - 1 - Battle Brothers

 

Well aware that the Great Crusade will eventually end, both primarchs have worked together to prepare for that day when they must transform from conquerors to their new roles. 

 

8 Battle Brothers now with Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, and Word Bearers. So, I'll simply skip their rolls and add the 3 as Battle Brothers. 

 

Now, to address the Night Lords. I would love to see what a stable Konrad would bring to the table and give the poor guy a break. But, if I did that, then the Night Lords of the Horus Heresy simply wouldn't exist as I don't see Konrad putting up with the Nostramo criminals. So, in the end, I might write a short alternate universe story about it, but as it is, I think I best leave the Night Lords be. 

 

Night Lords - By Order!

 

 

And that's it. Now we know just where the Wardens stand in regard to the rest of the Astartes. Minus the enigmatic XI, of course.