The Renegade Legion

[Tiberius Cato]

I'm really enjoying reading through this thread, brother. I find it interesting that you set about rather quickly with creating rules for representing your legion on the tabletop, something I couldn't even fathom doing for my XI legion project since I've yet to play even an actual game of 40K... But I digress, your work here is inspiring and when I get some freetime I'll definitely be checking out your third son thread.

[Black Cohort]

Simison can you post the lists for each category? It will make things easier going forward than having to look through multiple posts.

 

Everything looks good though, I agreed with your thoughts that in several cases brothers who should be close become very distant over minor things (see Dorn and Perturbo) and brothers who don't initially seem to fit becoming super close (see fulgrim and Ferrus)

[simison]

ArticPaladin, thank you for your encouragement! Nothing aids the writing process like vocal feedback. If you ever want some help on your XI legion project, feel free to ask. Like I've said before, some of the things I've written is specifically to help others write out their own legions. And thank you for being willing to read my Third Son story. I'll confess, it's not my best work (the pacing is a little erratic and the descriptions tend to be too short), but I will continue it to add some vitality into the II Legion and Alexandros.

 

Black Cohort, of course. Here's the Allied lists for the II Legion starting with Battle Brothers.

 

Battle Brothers

Dark Angels

Emperor's Children

Iron Warriors

White Scars

Space Wolves

Blood Angels

Ultramarines

Thousand Sons

Word Bearers

Salamanders

and the Imperial Army

 

Fellow Warriors

Iron Hands

Sons of Horus

[Raven Guard]

Mechanicum

 

 

Distrusted Allies

Imperial Fists

Death Guard

 

 

By Order!

[Night Lords]

[World Eaters]

[Alpha Legion]

 

???

[The XI Legion strikes again!]

 

 

And thank you for your agreement. I tried hard to keep the possibilities realistic and not go overboard with the number of Battle Brothers. I picked 11 as the limit, b/c that's simply 2 more than the Salamanders. And they don't even seem to try that hard to be friends with everyone. Seriously, some of the Battle Brothers explanations I give are more in-depth than the Salamanders close relationships to certain legions (like the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves). I can't tell you how amusing I find this, and wonder if we'll ever get a short story about those interactions, instead of the usual Salamander-Iron Hands-Raven Guard dynamic we're constantly seeing. 

[simison]

To conclude the Allies Matrix, I'm going to re-visit the 'Bonds of Brotherhood' rule. As mentioned earlier, it will be generic units allowed to use legion rules and wargear. For Battle Brothers, only 2 units are allowed to substitute. For Fellow Warriors, only 1 unit. And no units for the other two categories. Only one legion substitute is allowed per battle. 

 

So, I'm trying to keep the flavor of the rule here without nearing game-breaking possibility. 

 

Also, I'm going to go with the Initiative Bonus as originally detailed in Preeminent Defenders. The Toughness bonus will be handed over to the Myrmidon. Thus, we have the legion-specific rules.

 

 

•Legion Astartes : Halcyon Wardens (provisional) : All units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties.

 

•Preeminent Defenders : All units with LA:HW equipped with a shield of any kind, gain +2 Initiative when charged. This bonus is lost in subsequent combat sub-phases beyond the first.

 

•Shields of the Imperium : All units with LA:HW and any Dreadnoughts part of a HW primary detachment confer a 4+ cover save to any non-Xenos units behind them. The entire unit must be equipped with a shield of some kind to confer this bonus. Dreadnoughts ignore this restriction.

 

•Bonds of Brotherhood: Any Halcyon Warders Primary Detachment may include Legion units that are not their own, limited by the Allies Matrix. Units chosen in such a manner retain their own specific Legion Astartes rules and any Benefits or Detriments that may confer. Up to 2 units may be substituted for Battle Brothers, while only 1 unit is allowed for Fellow Warriors. No units are allowed to substitute for either Distrusted Allies or By Order of X! No independent characters or HQ units may be chosen.

 

•Master Negotiators : Starting at Turn 5, an army with the Halcyon Wardens as a Primary Detachment may opt, if they are winning by a minimum of 3 victory points, attempt to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the conflict. This is represented by a roll off between both players; the lower roll winning. If the Halcyon Wardens win, the game ends in their favor. If the opposing side wins, the rule The Bitter End applies.

 

 

 

Now, normally, I'd return to the wargear and finish that up, but something unexpected came up. I was coming up with the next segment of The Third Son, which would finally feature interaction between the three primarchs. Then, it hit me. I really don't have a solid idea of Alexandros physical appearance and capabilities beyond Greek features, red hair, and he uses a short sword-and-shield technique in close combat. 

 

You know what that means? The next couple of days/posts will be dedicated to creating the Lord of the Wardens. Looking forward to it.

[Black Cohort]

What legion specific wargear can units chosen using bonds of brotherhood use, Halcyon warders or their own legion?  Personally I think it would be more interesting if they could use Halcyon warriors legion specific wargear.

 

Also should shield of the Imperium have some kind of downside? like the unit providing the cover save takes d3 hits from the most common weapon fired through them by enemy unit.  So if a tactical squad fires through them the unit providing the cover save takes d3 bolter hits, if it is a tactical support squad with plasma guns the unit takes d3 plasma hits.

[Slips]

I think it should more or less force "Look out sir!" rolls on any unit behind them being targeted by Precision Shots (unless they bypass LoS!) unless its a dreadnought.

 

Something like that.

[Skalpynock]

First of all, I am impressed by so much dedication to a lost legion. I haven't seen such a thorough recreation of the Second or the Eleventh since Athrawes. However, I feel the urge to point out that one of your caveat isn't one (although I might be wrong on this point, in which case my whole explanation is to be disregarded).

Caveat #1, timing. (Quick word of warning, I'm basing most of this info found in the Great Crusade in the warhammer 40k wiki. If anyone knows any more authoritative sources, please chime in.) Apparently, it took a few years for the Emperor to find Horus, then about 30 years to find Leman Russ. The Great Crusade started 798.M30, so by the time Leman is found, it's 828.M30. We're left with 137 years before the Cataclysm hits the II Legion. Going by Deliverance Lost, Corax never meets Alexandros, so that's three Primarchs Alexandros never meets. With 40 years between the Cataclysm and the end of the Great Crusade, I'm also going to omit Night Haunter and Angron. 

 

All said and done, 5 Primarchs will never meet with Alexandros. At least, in 'canon'. Now, when I finish my list, I will include these five (minus the XI Legion), both for an alternate universe where the Wardens never have the Cataclysm and for games where these last 5 armies are possible allies.

 

 

In this scene of Deliverance Lost, Corax asks the Emperor why he is number nineteen but has only 17 brothers. While the missing two could be II and XI, one should remember that Corax was only the 18th primarch reunited with the Imperium, and that [Redacted] and Alpharius were yet to be found.

 

That said, having Alexandros not know the horror wrought by Night Haunter and Angron, the disorder caused by Alpharius, and whatever XI may have done does feel like a better idea. When it's only a matter of interpreting a sentence in a book, whatever floats your magnificent boat is fine.

[simison]

Black Cohort, since the units fielded are still Wardens just using different tactics, it would make more sense if the wargear was II Legion. As for the drawback idea, I went and looked over the other legions to get a better idea of how the current Warden tactics measure up. Overall, I agree there needs to be a downside to Shields, and I am reducing the Initiative bonus of Defenders to +1 after reviewing the Fists Shield Wall rule. The other two rules are restrictive enough to be left alone. I thought about your D3 rule and my only qualm is should it work if it's only a single model firing? Or it's a 50-man unit?

 

Actually, I just remember an unit that has something similar: bullgryns. I'm going to check my IG codex when I get home.

 

 

Slipstreams, I'm not quite understanding your suggestion. Is it that the shield unit can provide "Look Out, Sir!" rolls against precision shots aimed at their charges?

 

Skalpynock, first thank you for your encouragement. I can't stress how much easier it is to work when I hear directly from people. Second, you have a fair point. To be honest, at one point time, I saw mention that supposedly all Primarchs had met each other, which would lend credence to your interpretation, and it would add more conflict as Alexandros runs into the three brothers that he will never get along with. Plus, that would mean I wouldn't have to leave those out for the 'official' allied matrix. So, I'll definitely do another round of checking before I'll say that they haven't met.

[simison]

Now, let's get started on the primarchs. To begin with, I'm going to map out the extremes of the primarchs we do have. We have 12 out of the 18 primarchs, so we’ll have enough to establish trends and figure out where Alexandros fits.

 

Most Expensive: Horus (500)

Least Expensive: Lorgar (375 [No psyker upgrade]) or Corax  (350 [Deadly Prey version])

WS: Angron (9), Lorgar (6)

BS:  Alpharius  (7), Vulkan/Mortarion/Angron/Horus (5)    [Average is 6]

S: Perturabo/Vulkan/Ferrus/Horus/Angron (7), everyone else (6)

T: Mortarion/Angron/Horus/Ferrus/Vulkan/Perturabo (7), everyone else (6)

W: Mortarion (7)  , Angron/Lorgar (5)  [Average is 6]

I: Fulgrim (8), Mortarion/Vulkan/Ferrus/Dorn/Perturabo (5) 

A: Angron/Corax (6), Ferrus/Vulkan/Lorgar/Perturabo/Dorn (4)

 

Leadership value should be obvious (everyone has 10!), and armor value which isn't as dependent on knowing the other primarchs' stats. With the research done, tomorrow, I'll start working on Alexandros himself.

[Slips]

Oh! that brings to mind what his "Sire of the Halcyon Warders" should be. I'd have to give this more thought / see a general idea before I can really expand upon it. 

 

That being said, since the Primarch exemplifies his legion in every way and his "Sire of.." rule helps that, it is usually in the form of Force Multiplication or FoC manipulation.

 

So, the rule itself should be 2 parts (imo). One that expands upon his Psyker side; the other his Defender of Humanity side.

 

A quick Idea I had is that :

 

•Within 6 or 12 inches of Alexandros, all units with "LA:HW" gain a 6+ invulnerable save or +1 to an existing invulnerable save but cannot go lower than a 3+.

 

•For Psyker side, he gives all units with a Mastery Level that have the Rule "LA:HW" the Primaris Power of either Divination or Telepathy free and adds +1 to their power manifestation Limit to a maximum of 3, so long as the unit attempting to manifest the power is within 18" of Alexandros. (since ML1 can manifest only one power, ML2, 2 powers, etc. At least, that's how I remember it being.)

-This has the potential of being WAAAAAAAAAYYYY overpowered. This part was really iffy for me to get down since I wanted it to bring something unique (can't be that hard since we don't have Thousand Sons and Magnus to use as a guideline.) that spoke of his Psychic Mastery and the unity he shares with his Sons.

 

•Maybe even add a third part. Maybe an FoC modifier like Dorn (makes terminators and Phalanx Warders Troops).

 

He should also have a Warlord Trait of some kind.

 

Wont get into wargear until you outline his physical and psychological traits more since me going into detail about them now may or may not pigeon hold you to a certain way of thinking.

[simison]

Normally, I reply to the last post and then go into the rest of the topic, but I'm going to reverse that for here, since it'll help with the points you brought up, Slipstreams. 

 

Point-wise, I'm not sure where Alexandros falls yet. I know it's going to be high because even if I aimed for cheap like Lorgar, I'm still going to add 80 points worth to give him Psyker Mastery Level 4. He's supposed to be a psyker as powerful as Magnus, but appears less so because his powers are much more specialized, while Magnus is a master of everything. And this is where I wish we had Magnus' rules because I'm not sure if Magnus is going to be a level 4 or 5. Probably 4, but if he does turn out to be a 5, I'll raise Alexandros' level accordingly. 

 

Now for WS & BS. His personal combat style is very much close combat. He'll wield a xiphos (traditional Greek short sword) and a shield. For range, I plan on giving him a pistol, not sure which type would fit best. Now, because he spends plenty of his free time interacting with people, his WS is not going to be in the upper tiers of the melee-oriented primarchs like Fulgrim, Angron, and Dorn. 

 

So, his WS is 7, while his BS is 5. 

 

Physically, I've decided that (discounting the twins) Alexandros is the smallest of the primarchs, putting him somewhere between a normal-sized primarch like Corax and Alpharius/Omegon. As such, he's not going to have extra Strength or Toughness. This will extend itself to wounds. Alexandros' survival doesn't rely on innate endurance to weather attacks, so he'll technically be one of the weaker ones. Instead, he stays alive by predicting his enemy movements and countering them, combining his powers with speed. His small size will give him a natural edge there compared to his brothers.

 

S: 6

T: 6

W: 5

I: 7

A: 5

 

Lastly, he will be wearing some kind of artificer armor so his base armor save is:

 

SV: 2+

 

 

With that, we have his base stat line:

 

 

                              WS     BS     S     T     W      I      A     LD     Sv

Alexandros              7        5      6      6      5      7      5     10      2+

 

Unit Composition

• 1 (Unique)

Unit Type

• Infantry (Character)

 

Now, early ideas for wargear. 

 

• Armor of the Strategos
• The [Aegis] (I'll probably change the name, but I do love the sense of irony)
•  Xiphos
• Master-crafted pistol
• Cognis-signum (?)

 

I'm not sure what the Armor should do. After going through the other primarchs, there are some interesting and unique rules out there. I'm deciding between 3 different effects. The ideas are enhance psyker defense, psyker control, or give boost to his army for anyone who can draw line of sight to him. 

 

The [Aegis] will provide a flat 3++ save and I was thinking of it having a grav generator so that all close combat attacks are reduced by 1 in Strength.

 

The Xiphos needs to emphasize speed/precision in some way. It's specifically a short sword to give Alexandros greater control and help him wield around his shield.

 

The pistol because every primarch has some kind of range weapon.

 

The cognis-signum I'm undecided because it's ability to give +1 BS fits with the support edge Alexandros gives and the night vision fits with his theme of perception. But, he is a master telepath, so is that enough reason to discount it?

 

Now, early thoughts for his rules:

 

The obvious first.

• Bulky
• Sire of the Halcyon Wardens
• [Psyker Duelist]
• [Voice of Reason]
• [Foresight]

 

I'm going to go in reverse order so that I'll finish the post with the 'Sire of...' rule.

 

[Foresight - Before the enemy commander knows that there will be a battle, the Seer already knows where and when it will be. As such, Alexandros may choose two Warlord traits from the Strategic table]

 

The general gist is that the master of Divination is securing a strategic advantage before the battle starts. 

 

[Voice of Reason - At any point where the Wardens are ahead in Victory Points, Alexandros may spend a warp charge point to silently communicate with a single enemy model. This model must take a Leadership test with a negative 4 modifier. If failed, the model immediately defects and joins the Wardens. Note, this power can't be used on vehicle units or models with the Fearless, Adamantium Will, or Independent Character rules.]

 

This is one rule that I fear may be overpowered. I've tried to restrict enough to make it viable, but I'm still not sure. It's supposed to represent one of Alexandros' key tactics which is undermining the other side through defection. 

 

[Pysker Duelist - When finally engaged in close combat, Alexandros is at his most deadliest. Combining mastery of telepathy and divination, he is always one step ahead of his opponent. By spending two warp charge points, Alexandros may activate this power. Until his next combat turn, he may reroll all failed To-Hit, To-Wound, and Armor saves.]

 

This is the other rule I love, but I'm worried about its power level. But it really does sum up how Alex wins his personal fights. He may not have the best stats, but that's where his psyker powers comes to the fore.

 

Finally, Sire of the Halcyon Wardens. I'm going to break it down into parts. 

 

• One, I agree with you, Slipstreams. Unlike some primarchs, this rule will be dedicated to buffing his army as opposed to himself.
• [All units, Warden or Allied, may substitute Alexandros' leadership for their own when taking leadership, morale, or pinning tests.] - This is a basic rule, but a critical one that should be part of the 'Sire'.
• Two, there will be FoC manipulation. In this case the simple will do. If Alexandros is fielded, all Myrmidon terminators are considered Troop types.
• Three, I like the Invul save rule, but I'm not sure how to justify it fluff-wise. Can I hear your thoughts on how this would look like, Slipstreams?
• Four, I like the psyker rule you have, but agree that it might get ridiculous fast. Plus, with three other psyker rules, should I have one more rule about pyskers?

 

There y'all have it. I have to go and take care of chores (and possibly go to Barnes and Noble for a chance to read more of Vengeful Spirit), which will give everyone a chance to give me some feedback. Looking forward to it.

[Black Cohort]

Simison I agree with everything you have up until we hit wargear.  Unless Alexandros is limited only to getting powers from divination and Telepathy giving a mastery level 4 psyker a 3++ is just asking for him to rock biomancy and become basically unkillable.  Since his invul comes from a shield, I would make it a 3++ in close combat and a 5++ vs shooting.

 

The armour I would give a bonus to deny the witch within 12in of him or make enemies within 18in more likely to perils.

 

For the sword perhaps some kind of bonus based on how much higher his initiative is than the unit he is fighting?

 

As for his special rules

 

Foresight should be fine.

 

Voice of reason should become a warp charge one psychic power.  lower the leadership penalty by 2.  It should also not affect monstrous creatures in addition to what you listed.

 

Similarly Psyker duelist should be a warp charge two psychic power and specifically not affect his invul save.  I see no reason why he should be able to ignore the normal rules for psychic powers, being mastery lvl 4 should be enough to show his abilities.

 

Also I would not have his Sire rule give any more psychic stuff.

[Slips]

The idea behind the Invulnerable save rule was that maybe his armor produced a very strong forcefield around him.

 

Or that his mastery of Telepathy and Divination and general psychic mastery let him forewarn those closest to him of dangers that are coming.

 

Maybe its a mix of both. You could make it so that instead of having the Rule be a passive effect, its a WC activated power. Maybe 1 WC ? Since its very much like the sanctuary power (iirc).

[Black Cohort]

I can buy a 5++ with the ability to buff it to 3++ with psychic power.  It also becomes less of an issue if he is limited to only divination and telepathy, as the most cheesy stuff comes when you throw several biomancy powers on him.

[Slips]

Yeah, agreed. His limitations should let him and his troops become powerful but at a cost. In this case being the Spending of WC to boost defensive capabilities over offensive power.

[simison]

Black Cohort, yeah sorry about that. I forgot to mention it, but Alexandros is limited to solely Divination and Telepathy. I was tempted to boost a little bit more by allowing him to pick which powers he could use, but with Foresight, Voice of Reason, and Psyker Duelist, he's halfway to making his own chart. 

 

Also, a psyker defense boost makes sense when I realized that that's one area of defense that hasn't been enhanced. How about this?

 

• Armor of Auspice: Upon finishing his instruction on Terra, Alexandros was given this armor by the Emperor. Not only is it refined artificer armor fit for a Primarch, a relic from the lost Age of Technology was installed into the helmet. With this added technology, Alexandros was better able to confound enemies who would use the warp to attack those under his protection. The Armor of Auspice provides 2+ Armor save, adds +1 value to Deny the Witch rolls, and may roll for Deny the Witch for any unit targeted within 24 inches. 

 

How's that? Too much? The idea is that it sacrifices the possible Invul save that is usually tied to the armor and give him a big bonus to fighting off psyker attacks.

 

For the sword, I think I'll keep it simple. 

 

• Xiphos: Based on ancient Grekian weapons, it is a short sword capable of thrusting and slashing. The blades have been sharpened to a monomolecular level, making it capable of finding weak spots in any armor it is used against. It's maneuverable size,  combined with Alexandros precision, the Xiphos has claimed many opponents with a single, aimed thrust.

                   Range      S          AP                        Type

Xiphos            -         User        2          Melee, Instant Death, Rending

 

Nothing too fancy, but effective and gives him a chance against all opponents.

 

 

How about the pistol? I'm tempted to make it a Plasma blaster and leave it at that. 

 

I believe I'll keep the Cognis-Signum, unless I need to shed it to keep his point level going out of control. 

 

And, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or if you just missed it, but I had those very same warp charge costs with both Voice and Duelist in the same way you said, Black Cohort. Great minds think alike, eh? That said, I will add monstrous creatures, good catch and will reduce the leadership modifier to -2. 

 

 

Slipstreams, ah, I see what you were thinking of. Hmmm, the Invul save I'm going to keep for now, but that's another effect that will depend on how the points fall. I will be getting rid of the psyker buff since his armor takes care of that. And everybody agrees with the rest of the 'Sire' rule. 

 

Nobody seems to have an issue with the shield either. So, I guess I can leave it as is. 

[simison]

Also, Skalpynock, I found the info I thought I heard about all of the primarchs meeting together. It came from Laurie Goulding who is one of the Black Library editors. He specifically addresses the line in Deliverance Lost and says that most readers simply misread it. Since the line fits either interpretation, I'm going to side with Goulding on this. (That and it's more practical to have one Allied Matrix.) So, thanks for pointing that out.

Thus, Alexandros has met Corax, Konrad, and Angron. He's met one 'Alpharius' and that was the last time any member of the Alpha Legion has been on the same planet as Darshan.

Oh yeah, and that XI primarch guy nobody knows about. Maybe ArticPaladin can give us a proper introduction to him.

[Black Cohort]

Simison, I may have misinterpreted but the way you wrote it implied to me that he just used X number of warp charges and the power happened, no rolling of any kind.  I was just making sure they worked the normal way.

[simison]

Well, that was a blond moment on me, because I did mean that way. And I thought you meant my way when you meant the official way. So, I'm glad we've fixed that silliness before we went too far. Sorry I subjected you to that.

[Black Cohort]

No worries, I am just trying to make sure your rules are as well defined as possible, we have all met "that guy" who plays 40k and twists badly phrased rules to his benefit.

[simison]

So, here comes the toughest and most important part of making a model rule-wise: the points. You can take any model and give him whatever special rules, wargear, and shenanigans you want. It won't matter so long as it is properly pointed. Much like how I walked through Irvin Ruel's process, I'm going to do the same so that everyone else can have an easier time creating their own primarchs. 

 

Now, since there is no such thing as a 'base' primarch, I'm going to use Lorgar as an example since he is the cheapest one at:

 

375 points

 

First, let's go through the stats. Comparing the stat lines, Alexandros has +2 stat points with WS, Initiative, & Attacks being higher by one, but BS being lower by one. So, with that, we know to add 10 points to Alexandros.

 

385 points

 

Next, we'll compare wargear, starting with armor. I took one look at Lorgar's armor and realized that I'm going to have to look at other things. So, I went for a visit to the Praetor entry, then Centurion. For artificer armor, it's a 10 point upgrade. They both have it, so no change there. For the Invul save, I'm combining the Aegis with Armor of Auspice. Here, Alexandros edges out ahead with +1 Invul, and two unique rules compared to 1 for Lorgar's.

 

(Note, I have decided that the +1 to Deny the Witch Rolls is to be replaced with the +1 to Perils result if Alexandros perils. Under no circumstance should the Seer himself get randomly sucked into the warp. And with a 4+ Deny the Witch roll, that's pretty good.)

 

For having one more unique rule, I'm adding 10 points to Alexandros. This is slightly arbitrary since the points for unique rules can vary, but I think this is in the right ballpark. And then 10 more points for the shield's fancy grav generator.

 

405 points

 

 

Melee weapons. Illuminarum and Xiphos are both power weapons, which has always been rated the same amount of points. Xiphos' AP was increased by 1, but Illuminarum's was increased by 2. Thus, that's 5 points lower. Special rules, Illuminarum has added Smash & Master-Crafted, while Xiphos added Instant Death and Rending. Number-wise, they're equal. Power-wise? ...kind of? At AP 2, half of Rending was rendered moot making it less value then Master-Crafted. But Instant Death does edge out over Smash. So, equal-ish. 

 

400 points

 

Ranged weapon. Archaeotech Pistol vs. [insert cool name] Plasma Blaster. Okay, this took longer because I had to find a unit that could buy a plasma blaster. They're both 20 points. Now, instead of Master-crafted, I'm going to have it be without the Get's Hot! rule and be a gift from Vulkan. That'll add 5 points to its worth. 

 

405 points

 

Extra gear. Lorgar's frag grenades versus Alexandros' cognis-signum. And this one became outright mean because almost every marine unit has assault grenades. Best guess is 10 points, 5 for each kind of grenade. The cognis-signum was even more of a jerk because only one entry uses it (Master of Signal) and it's a package upgrade. Best guess is 10 points. (Out of 35, 10 for the cognis, 10 for the vox, & 15 for the Orbital Bombardment rule). I am still tempted to ditch this piece of gear.

 

405 points

 

Special rules. And we come to the most erratic of the point systems. Let's start easy. Bulky & Primarch match up. Mastery level 4 is simple, 20 points per level. So, we now do our 80 point jump, except Lorgar is Mastery level 2, so now it's only 40 points. Sticking to the psyker side of things, Alexandros has 3 unique powers, while Lorgar has to pick the highest of 3d6 until he becomes transfigured. So, I'm adding 10 points per power. Not sure I like where this is going. 

 

475 points

 

Lastly, the 'Sire' rules. For this, I'm combining both 'Sire' and 'Dark Fortune' since both affect Word Bearers as an army with one bonus for Lorgar. Both allow leadership substitution with the 'Sire of the Wardens' also affecting allied units. Adding 10 points there. Lorgar gives the Crusader rule to him and his unit, while Alexandros makes Myrmidon a troop type. (I'm nixing the terminators from this benefit.) They equal out. Now, without touching the additional Invul rule for the Wardens, Lorgar gives his Word Bearers (in LoS) Fear Immunity, +1 to Charge, and +1 to winning assaults. That would easily take 15 points back from Alex. 

 

460 points

 

Now that I know I'm a comfortable distance away from usurping Horus' position, I'm going to go ahead and add the Invul benefit as such: Within 12 inches of Alexandros, all units with "LA:HW" gain a 6+ invulnerable save or +1 to an existing invulnerable save but cannot go lower than a 3+. Pretty much Slipstreams rule. Except it's going to be 20 points (10 for the power, 5 to negate a warp charge cost, and 5 points for affecting a bubble instead of one unit.) 

 

Finally, the point cost for Alexandros is:

 

480 points

[Slips]

I like it and the reasoning is sound.

 

My only qualm is that, at this cost, he is the second most expensive Primarch after Horus Himself. Consider maybe lowering him to the 450 range for other Primarchs such as Ferrus Manus have a lot more far reaching Force Multipliers while also being decent Beatsticks.

 

Sadly, until we see Magnus' cost, basing yours off of Lorgar seems to be the best method of Pricing him. However, I'd give it more thought and maybe compare his benefits/cost to those of other Primarchs to get a larger sample size for pricing.

[Tiberius Cato]

Once I get my ideas for the XI primarch down I'll gladly share them here, if you'd like. My last go at it was a bit heavy handed and now I have some new things thrown in the mix, so we'll see where this goes!

[Russ Brother 92]

Having had a long read through - I think 460 would be sound costing - he's in the upper arc of costs but not too close to usurp Horus, also his powers being specialised as they are doesn't step on the proverbial toes of either Transfigured Lorgar or the likely rules for Magnus (tbh I fully expect Magnus to have two sets of rules).

[simison]

Just to be sure (because I made one post that could be quite pointless if I didn't hear right) are you two, Slipstreams & Russ brother, saying that I should lower his price with him as he is or that I should remove a couple of things to get him lower point cost?

 

Looking forward to it, ArcticPaladin!