opinions on the guard superheavies in 7th?

[WarriorFish]

I do like a bit of ignores cover... an AP2 2+ poisoned über template sounds almost too cruel though. Almost.

[Frater Cornelius]

If we are talking about Forgeworld then the Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher is hand down the superior LoW for IG, rivaling even the Knight to some degree, depending on army composition.

[hornywingythingy]

^ I'm a cheesy WAAC at heart, but even I don't stoop to forgeworld! ;)

[march10k]

Oh, I dunno, not all FW is CheeZe.  A lot of it is actually uncompetitive.  I mean, sure, my avenger strike fighter has a 7 shot S6 AP3 gun, two lascannons, and two missile launchers for 190 points, but it also has 2 HP, BS3 (with strafing run, so BS4 against ground targets), and a whole lotta AV10 (12 on the front only).  Loads of fun, it's a scifi A-10, but a stiff breeze will knock it out of the sky, and it's even more overcosted now that "explodes" is on a 7.  Now, the new knight lancer?  Pure OP fromage...almost impossible not to get a charge off on turn 2, and 6 AV13 HP with a 4++ to ensure that you live long enough to do it...then it's 5 I5 D weapon attacks when it does charge on turn two?  With a 5++ in melee?  C'mon, man!  What were they thinking?  That thing will delete a warhound titan in one turn!

[Frater Cornelius]

Frankly, a regular Knight will also remove a Warhound in one turn with 4 S-D attacks on the charge and has the same movement speed, av and hp. If anything I consider the lancer garbage because he does not offer anything useful at range, does not have grenades (duh), is faster than most MC and the ones that are faster are also faster than the lancer, melta boms, fists and hammer are I1, stomping happens at I1. That 5++ in melee is not all that useful and can not offset a 36" s9 large blast melta or 2 shot battle cannon that can fire at a different target the knight is charging.

[march10k]

He's

Frankly, a regular Knight [...] has the same movement speed, av and hp.

Really? I didn't think regular knights had a 3D6 run move. I need to look into that!

That 5++ in melee is not all that useful

Not only is a 5++ in melee infinitely better than no save at all (especially when you're getting pummeled with powerfists and thunderhammers, as opposed to chainfists and D weapons), but you're completely ignoring I5 and the fifth attack.

I see the difference as being twofold. First, a lancer lances a regular knight if they ever meet in single combat (and knights are common enough to make that worth considering). Second, a superheavy tank sitting in the enemy deployment zone gets two turns to deal with a regular knight (three if going first) before the knight can chop it to bits with its D weapon, but only one (two) turn(s) against a lancer.

As for the regular knights' weapons...I can get those cheaper in C:AM...a pair of LRBTs, or a banewolf for the melta template.