Rules Conundrum

[Smurfalypse]

So had a game yesterday and I was using a Daemon army list allied with Crimson Slaughter and a big unit of Possessed vs some Grey Knights allies with Ultra Marines. The game went pretty decently and I threw my Possessed plus a ton of other crap into a Draigowing (Draigo, Paladins, GK Librarian, and Tigerius). We both rolled up Invisibility so it was a bit of a slap fight for a while.

 

To the point and exact question we noticed that the rules say "a unit casting x power" and things of that nature and could not see an answer as to an IC who joins a Brotherhood of Psycher/Sorcerer unit could not cast their powers for them. To be exact, could Tigerius cast the powers of everyone else in the unit for them because he gets to reroll failed psychic tests? I am usually a pretty lenient opponent but I refused to give ground on casting a power that THAT individual IC did not roll up. He had a bit of a hissy fit over up but I refused to give ground on this particular issue. 

 

I looked over the rules and honestly cannot find anything that says he cannot do it and was wondering if you good people happened to know off hand where I could find this info, one way or another.

 

Thanks

[Dragonlover]

The way I see it, Tigurius has a list of powers he can cast, the Grey Knights have a separate list, and they can't use each others powers. That said, I have no actual rules text to back that up.

 

Dragonlover

[Clone]

Each psyker must roll for his own powers. These are the powers the psyker knows. You can't cast powers that weren't selected. The warp charge pool is common but sharing powers between units is not. Pretty clear of you read the rulebook tbh.

[Hellrender]

Indeed. Warp charge is shared. Powers are not. You only allocate warp charge to psykers. Not powers

[Trevak Dal]

The way I see it, Tigurius has a list of powers he can cast, the Grey Knights have a separate list, and they can't use each others powers. That said, I have no actual rules text to back that up.

 

Dragonlover

Yeah exactly.  Could Tigerius cast their powers before?  No.  No he couldn't.  He does become apart of that unit, but he doesn't gain their powers.

[Smurfalypse]

Each psyker must roll for his own powers. These are the powers the psyker knows. You can't cast powers that weren't selected. The warp charge pool is common but sharing powers between units is not. Pretty clear of you read the rulebook tbh.

Can you point out where exactly it says something other than "the unit casts"? Because that is all I can find, just a bunch of references to "unit cast".

While I agree 100% that is how it works and I refused to allow him to use it differently, I really just want something in writing that explains that as a unit they cannot cast each others powers. There is nothing that says it so far as I can tell, just reference to "unit" which honestly leaves it open a little (though we all know intent, he was just being an ass :P).

[RolandTHTG]

I'd go with the fact that Brotherhood of Psykers  and Psyker are different special rules, which are specifically not shared by joining a unit, so for the purposes of the psychic phase the different Psykers  (and the Brotherhood, counting as one psyker) count as separate units. This technically does allow  Deamons to have their Horror+Herald separate firing back.

 

This may need to go to the Rules section though.

[Clone]

I'd go with the fact that Brotherhood of Psykers and Psyker are different special rules, which are specifically not shared by joining a unit, so for the purposes of the psychic phase the different Psykers (and the Brotherhood, counting as one psyker) count as separate units. This technically does allow Deamons to have their Horror+Herald separate firing back.

 

This may need to go to the Rules section though.

This.

 

By unit, the rulebook is describing the independent character and brotherhood of psykers as separate units. The IC may have joined a squad but he is still a separate unit. I'll try and find a page number for you to show your friend.

[Smurfalypse]

I would appreciate it. 

[Forté]

 

Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers

 

Some highly-trained psykers act in groups, focussing on a single goal. Few can resist such mighty minds working in concert.

 

A unit containing at least one model with this special rule is a Psyker unit – if no Mastery Level is shown, then that unit has a Mastery Level of 1. Rules for generating and manifesting psychic powers can be found in the Psychic phase section. The unit follows all the normal rules for Psykers, with the following clarifications:

 

• •When manifesting a psychic power, this unit measures range and line of sight from, and uses the characteristics profile (if required) of, any one model in the unit that has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule (controlling player’s choice).

• •If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule. If a model with this special rule gains or loses a psychic power, all other models with this special rule in their unit also gain or lose that power.

Does he have the "Brotherhood" special rule? If not then no he can't. Simple.

[Clone]

 

Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers

 

Some highly-trained psykers act in groups, focussing on a single goal. Few can resist such mighty minds working in concert.

 

A unit containing at least one model with this special rule is a Psyker unit – if no Mastery Level is shown, then that unit has a Mastery Level of 1. Rules for generating and manifesting psychic powers can be found in the Psychic phase section. The unit follows all the normal rules for Psykers, with the following clarifications:

 

• •When manifesting a psychic power, this unit measures range and line of sight from, and uses the characteristics profile (if required) of, any one model in the unit that has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule (controlling player’s choice).

• •If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule. If a model with this special rule gains or loses a psychic power, all other models with this special rule in their unit also gain or lose that power.

Does he have the "Brotherhood" special rule? If not then no he can't. Simple.

Thanks Forte!