Exile Noctis Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So... Interceptors? :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3709767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Shunt them, Pew Pew with Psycannons? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3709778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
treadhead Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I prefer roasting with incinerators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3709853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Val, small demonstration..... I walk into a candy store with 1$ candies. I ask the german girl with an Oktoberfest dress at the counter (hey, it's MY demonstration!) how much candy I can buy. She tell me (with a german accent) "depends on how much money you have". I can pretty much assume I can buy 1 candy for each dollar I have... :) I'd love my GK to be able to cast both hammerhand AND Force, but really, both the psychic rules intro and "past precedents" (ie 6th ed.) let me think I can't If you can forward this to your GW contact, it would be great, though.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3709897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I dunno why we're still arguing this. No restriction is stated, anywhere in the rulebook. The two restrictions that are stated are A: you need the minimum number of warp charges to attempt it and B: you can't manifest the same psychic power from the same psyker in that Psychic phase. 'Depends' is a variable word, meaning 'well you need to consider certain factors'. It is not a limiting word, it is a relationship word. For example, a Tactical squad's bolter output 'depends' on the range you're at. At 24", you fire 1 shot, but at 12" you fire two shots. The shooting phase doesn't place limits on models shooting beyond they can only use one gun per Shooting phase (two if they're both pistols, as per the Gunslinger rule). The limitations come in via the weapons themselves ie their fire rate, range etc. Under your logic, if I was to say 'the fire rate of a bolter depends on the range', you'd take it as 'it can only ever fire one shot'. Which is non-nonsensical, because clearly other factors can increase the fire rate (Overwatch, 30k 'Fury of the Legion' special rule, Interceptor etc). It's the same with psychic powers. All Mastery 1's at minimum know 2 powers (due to auto-Psychic Focus), if they have a force weapon its 3. Mastery 2's have can have up to 4, Mastery 3's up to 5 (including force). At no point are you ever restricted from what you can manifest, other than needing warp charges sufficient and not having manifested it already with that psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3709929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigvard Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 RD in the above Bolter example it related directly to the point I am making. The number of powers you can depends on your Psychic Mastery Level - So if I am psychic mastery level 1 I can use "1" power. However if I am psychic mastery level 2 I can use 2 powers. But this will be the last I say on it. I am not going to change the way you interpet nor do I believe the argument that you are a making to be correct. I believe this to be an issue that opinion will dictate until GW clear it up. Sorry for clogging up the post OP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3710013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Can someone then answer is sucessful, unsuceesful or denied Powers count towards the PML limit? If not, can we stick to the actual restrictions (Warp Charges / Can't cast same power twice) in the rulebook please? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3710058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Makes it a little harder to decide how to kit all PAGK out. It depends entirely on the squad dude, as each has different roles and most have different nemesis upgrade costs; Purifiers want halberds for sure (on the non-psycannon dudes) and on their Flame Knight. I still mix in a squad hammer now and again as an insurance policy. Strikes are unlikely to win most melee fights (even with new 'Hammerhand' they don't have enough attacks), and their strength is shooting. Psybolt upgrade is a far better investment than nemesis upgrades. Some take a hammer or halberd on the Justicar, I've never seen the need. Terminators get everything except falchions as a free swap. That said, like Purifiers, halberds are an amazing choice, although you need a squad hammer or two so you can win fights against other TDA units (who invariably pack powerfists etc). I usually put the hammer on the psycannon models, as they're at the back of the unit usually. Interceptors are quite expensive base, so many would leave them with swords and focus on either incinerator or psycannon upgrades. If you do want melee capacity though, halberds are scary good. Purgators should never ever be in melee, don't do it. Hammer on the Justicar if you have points to spend, otherwise don't bother. Falchions are unlikely to be +2A total. GW will fix it in the next update :( Hate to say, you have to pay for Falchions on TDA. Hammer and halberd are free on them. And for Purifiers, 4 special weapons, 5 halberds and 1 hammer keeps your points easy (a multiple of 5) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3710280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Here is the note that I sent in: Dear sir or madam, The following line, found in the description of Mastery Levels on page 22 of The Rules, has caused a significant degree of confusion among players, "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends upon his Mastery Level." Many people are arguing that this means that a Mastery Level 1 Psyker can only attempt to manifest a single power. However, the context of the rest of the rules in The Psychic Phase section of The Rules indicates that a Psyker can attempt to manifest as many powers as he knows, and has available Warp Charges in the pool to support. For example, a Mastery Level 1 Psyker with a total of 7 Warp Charges in his pool (a good roll on his d6) could attempt to use 1) the random power on the discipline table that he rolled for at the beginning of the game, 2) the primaris power that he gets for Psychic Focus, and 3) the Force power to activate his force weapon, all in the same psychic phase of his turn. Please clarify which of the two interpretations is correct. An amendment to The Rules may be in order. Best regards, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3710512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
himkano Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Val, small demonstration..... I walk into a candy store with 1$ candies. I ask the german girl with an Oktoberfest dress at the counter (hey, it's MY demonstration!) how much candy I can buy. She tell me (with a german accent) "depends on how much money you have". I can pretty much assume I can buy 1 candy for each dollar I have... :) ... But if the candy is 50 cents, you get 2 pieces of candy for each dollar, and the amount if candy you can buy still depends on how much money you have... To the OP, I like GKIS, now more than ever, because now they score - before, the risk was higher because you had a higher chance of ending the game with no troops, now it doesn't matter ( but if they play heldrakes...ouch) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3733890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I've always thought you can only use a number of powers equal to your mastery level; with the big 7th edition change thats psykers can use powers with multiple warp charges, because before you needed to be a mastery level 3 to use a power that used 3 warp charges, where as now you can be a crappy little 10 point psyker and use vortex of doom :-P And as force activates all the force weapons in the squad, just attach a basic psychic inquisitor/tech marine to any CC knights squad, the squad casts hammerhand and the inquisitor/tech activates force, plus the inquisitor/tech could also take Rad nades for insta marine death funzies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3733993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 a mastery level 1 psyker can use 1 power...but as long as you have the warp dice available you can cast a WC3 power... a few people have tried to argue that if you have several powers on a lvl 1 psyker you can cast what you have with the WC you have...the rule covering this is a bit vague "the number of psyker powers a psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level" seems pretty cut and dry to me Interceptors are great for closing the distance to a bunkered in army...but you cant leave them high and dry, they need support...sometimes this is NDK's, sometimes its is longer range shooting in the form of Vindicare/Henchmen...or it could be a LRadier with an assault squad... but make sure you dont try to use these guys as an assault force...they work far better if in cover and close enough to the enemy to use those str5 SB, and the psycannons you bring OFC they are also great for the first turn flame-a-thon...2-3 squads of Int with 2x Incin...and NDK's right beside them with Heavy Incin's...have a BBQ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 It would seem backward to implement a new rule giving PML1 Psykers two power by default. If they could only use 1... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 multiple powers gives you a meaningful choice on which power to cast in a said psychic phase...do i give rerolls or ignores cover? 4++ or make them reroll their save? things like that...a mastery 2 can have 2 rolls on the table and still get access to the primaris...giving him 3 powers to choose from Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Unless you roll a Psychic Shooting attack, and the Primaris is a Psychic Shooting attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 what do you mean unless? i can use the psychic shooting attack and then another as a PML2 psyker...but only 1 as a PML1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Yet you could possibly get two as a PML1 psyker, by rolling and getting a PSA, and getting a PSA for free through the Primaris. It would be, silly, of GW to introduce a new rule (givine the Primaris for free to *every* PML1 psyker), and then limit the Psyker from being able to use both (especailly if you only have a single Psyker, and roll a 6 on your Warp Charge dice). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3734188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Actually it makes sense. Think of their mastery rating both as their knowledge base and of their mental strength and stamina. It takes a lot to these abilities. And before someone goes trying to poke holes in this idea with the free primaris power giving them more "knowledge", remember that those powers are described as so intrinsic to that field of psychic study that it is the foundation of it, hence when your psyker focuses on that discipline, he gains that ability as well. But they still only have the mental stamina to bring their might to bear so many times each turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Yet you could possibly get two as a PML1 psyker, by rolling and getting a PSA, and getting a PSA for free through the Primaris. It would be, silly, of GW to introduce a new rule (givine the Primaris for free to *every* PML1 psyker), and then limit the Psyker from being able to use both (especailly if you only have a single Psyker, and roll a 6 on your Warp Charge dice). There is precedent though. Previously, a lot of GK units knew at least two powers (hammerhand + something) but could only use one of them (or activate force weapons) because they were only ML1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sure, there was precedence. But then you didn't get an extra free 1d6 Warp Charges, or a dedicated Phase either. ;) New rules put in place, and one of which is *silly* if you weren't able to use it in conjunction with the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Sure, there was precedence. But then you didn't get an extra free 1d6 Warp Charges, or a dedicated Phase either. New rules put in place, and one of which is *silly* if you weren't able to use it in conjunction with the rest. The previous edition only allowed a psyker to cast a number of powers up to their PML and with "the number of psyker powers a psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level" which a lot of people ignore, dictates that a psyker can only cast a number of powers up to thier mastery level. Obviously they cannot say "equals" because that would imply they can only use that many powers, no less, no more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 And usually, a PML1 Psyker had a single Power. And couldn't even learn a Power that cost more than thier Mastery level to use. That's been changed. What's the point of introducing a new global rule, giving (just about ) *all* PML1 Psykers two powers, if you can't use them? Especially as the restriction on being able to use more powerful Powers being removed, and available Warp Charges massively increased (extra free 1d6 plus all Charges being now pooled, instead of individual). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 And usually, a PML1 Psyker had a single Power. And couldn't even learn a Power that cost more than thier Mastery level to use. That's been changed. Not true. SM librarians always had access to two powers but could only use one due to their PML. You could upgrade them to epistolary to use the other power but still couldn't select another one. The GK libby could even buy every GK codex power but could only cast 3 max if you upgraded to epistolary. Quite the contrary to your suggestion a psyker usually had access to a power and to activate their force eapon. Our squads are no different but in 6th also had the option of using their squad ability too. If you're now suggesting that a GKSS could cast Hammerhand, Banishment and Force against Daemon Princes then they would probably defeat it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 'Usually'. Our Squads were against the norm, having in some cases three Powers for a PML1 unit. If you're now suggesting that a GKSS could cast Hammerhand, Banishment and Force against Daemon Princes then they would probably defeat it. As long as you have enough Warp Charges. Yes. I'd like to go back a bit. If anyone thinks that the number of powers you can use is still limited by PML, then can you show which Power is limited? Just sucessful casts? Do unsucessful casts count towards the limit? Do Sucessful Casts that are Denied count against the limit? So far, no one has even attempted to answer this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozshock Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 im pretty sure the rule states that you can only CAST as many powers (up to) as you PML...which includes fails... it has always been that way...why would a lvl 1 psyker be able to cast as many powers as a PML 3? who is also meant to be a Psyker powerhouse unto himself im DAMN sure you only cast as many power as you have PML...end of story... as for interceptors, they are awesome as jump infantry but never consider them a CC unit...1 attack base and yes they have AP3 power weapons, but their shooting far outclasses what they can do in CC...imo stop in front of them shoot them to pieces with S5 SBolters/Psycannon/Incinerator then overwatch if they wanna charge you...obv park in cover if you know they will shoot back, or if its something terrible at CC like pathfinders...go for the charge but beware of their overwatch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291759-any-one-use-interceptors-and-yes-what-configuration/page/4/#findComment-3735921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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