Any one use Interceptors and yes what configuration

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

im pretty sure the rule states that you can only CAST as many powers (up to) as you PML...which includes fails...

 

Why would it inlcude a failed Power?  How about Denied ones?

 

 

 

it has always been that way...why would a lvl 1 psyker be able to cast as many powers as a PML 3? who is also meant to be a Psyker powerhouse unto himself

 

They can't.  a PML3 Psykers has two extra power points to cast more than a PML1 Psyker.

[Valerian]

Why has this argument been resurrected?  It was good and dormant for three weeks, and someone had to come along and stir things up again.  We aren't likely to win over anyone with our points; or we would have reached consensus long ago.  Instead, I highly encourage folks to write the rules blokes at Gamefaqs@gwplc.com and ask them address this as soon as practicable. 

 

Feel free to copy and paste the following into an email of your own, or create whatever new version you may wish to:

 

Dear sir or madam,

The following line, found in the description of Mastery Levels on page 22 of The Rules, has caused a significant degree of confusion among players, "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends upon his Mastery Level."

Many people are arguing that this means that a Mastery Level 1 Psyker can only attempt to manifest a single power. However, the context of the rest of the rules in The Psychic Phase section of The Rules indicates that a Psyker can attempt to manifest as many powers as he knows, and has available Warp Charges in the pool to support. For example, a Mastery Level 1 Psyker with a total of 7 Warp Charges in his pool (a good roll on his d6) could attempt to use 1) the random power on the discipline table that he rolled for at the beginning of the game, 2) the primaris power that he gets for Psychic Focus, and 3) the Force power to activate his force weapon, all in the same psychic phase of his turn.

Please clarify which of the two interpretations is correct. An amendment to The Rules may be in order.

Best regards,

[Ozshock]

it doesnt need to be FAQed its pretty darn obvious...people are just trying to scew the words around to make it sound slike it doesnt...

 

"the number of powers a psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level"

 

not the amount of powers he has a choice to cast...PERIOD...end of discussion...no need for an FAQ to cover this its pretty clear cut...

 

btw i did try to steer this back to the original posting, but people still want to argue the fact

 

there are other things GW need to FAQ that they STILL havent yet...so leave it be

[Captain Coolpants]

I agree completely with ozshock, it's pretty obvious that a ms1 can only use 1 power lol.

But I wouldn't complain if it did get FAQ'd the way others are somehow interpreting it haha.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's not obvious. It's not "end of story". It's not even supported in the rules.

 

It's a fluff line with *no* mechanical backup.

 

The only restrictions in the rules are;

 

1: Amount of Warp Charges available

2: Can't cast the same power more than once

 

And *again*.  Does the PML level take into account Denied Powers?  Failed Powers?  There are no rules to support how a PML restirction would work.

 

The *obvious* support of a PML restriction is nothing more than reliance on 6th edition rules.  Which are *vastly* difference and out of date now.

[Quozzo]

The only restrictions in the rules are;

 

1: Amount of Warp Charges available

2: Can't cast the same power more than once

 

And *again*.  Does the PML level take into account Denied Powers?  Failed Powers?  There are no rules to support how a PML restirction would work.

It's not fluff, it's a rule and one that shouldn't be ignored/quick to find as it's even bolded for your convenience.

[Gentlemanloser]

If it's a rule, how does it work?

[Grand Master Caloth]

Then, GL, if my grand master shoots his storm bolter and fails to hit with one (failed to cast), and the other is saved (denied), do I then count as not having shot?

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm glad you made this analogy. :)

 

There's a process to resolving a shooting attack (See Page 30).

 

Step 4 is Roll to hit

Step 6 is allocate wounds & remove casualties

 

You can't resolve a shooting attack until you've passed through all these stages.  And as per step 7, you have to resolve all the shots from a particular wepaon before moving on to the next.

 

Which as shown includes a to hit roll and saving throws.

 

Now, as for Psychic Powers (page 24)  we see;

 

 

 

unless you have 0 warp charge points remaining

 

The rest of the rules include sucessful casts, failed casts and denied casts.

 

*NOWHERE* is this equated to any sort of limit in the Psychic Phase rules.  No limit on PML.  Nothing.

 

All that limits you is Step 1.

 

"Unless you have 0 warp charge points"

 

*If* you wish to limit casts by PML, then you need to show where in the rules this limit is.  Does it include successful, failed or Denied casts?  All three are part of the Psychic Phase.

 

Look back at the steps on page 24.

 

You get to 4, and the Deny is successful.  The rules state;

 

 

 

The Psychic Power does not manifest and nothing further happens

 

Does that count towards your PML limit?  Yes, no?  Why?

 

What is to stop you from going back to Step 1 and if you have more Warp Charge points, from trying to cast again?

[Quozzo]

Does it include successful, failed or Denied casts?

The fact you can call each one cast is a sure sign.

[Gentlemanloser]

Does it trip the limit if nothing manifests and nothing happens?  Is that actually 'cast' then?  Or does Cast actually mean a successful manifestation of a Power?

 

The fluff responsible for all this is only;

 

 

 

The number of Psychic Powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level

 

So what does 'use' mean?  Successfully cast?  Have you used a power if you fail to manifest it?  Have you used a power if nothing happens becuase your opponent sucessfully Denied you the ability to manifest it?

 

Why, from page 24 onwards (the rules for resolving the Psychic Phase) is there *never* mentioned a restriction on manifesting psychic powers based on PML?

 

The second real restriction is actually stated in the rules.

 

 

 

has not already attempted to manifest

 

Totally different condition to 'use' and one covered by the rules.

[Quozzo]

has not already attempted to manifest

Totally different condition to 'use' and one covered by the rules.

"attempted".

I attempted to fly once. It didn't go very well, I ended up in hospital and everything

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes.  Why I posted it. ;)

 

It's the restriction on not using the same power more than once.  That's covered in the rules. ;)

[Adeptus]

Rulebook: "The number of Psychic Powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his mastery level"

 

Me: "Because he can only cast powers he knows. Therefore a higher mastery level Psyker can use more powers than a lower level, because he knows more powers."

 

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Gentlemanloser]

Or he generates more Warp Charges than those with lower PML.

 

Also, I'm sure this has been mentioned already, but check the rules for Witchfire powers.

 

 

 

A Psyker can manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase (assuming he has enough Warp Charge)

 

Not assuming he has a high enough PML.

 

Again and again Warp Charges are used in the rules to limit the number of Powers that can be cast.  And Mastery Level is *never* mentioned.

 

Mastery Level does provide the Warp Charges though.  So it does influence the number of powers that can be used.  By influencing the number of Warp Charges available to *use*.

[IndigoJack]

It's weird how you only argue RAW when it's in your favor. RAW, "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level." I'd like to point out it says his mastery level. It specifically calsl out the model's mastery level being a limiting factor, not the number of WCs, generated communally from the army. RAW, a psyker can only use one power per mastery level.

[Adeptus]

It's weird how you only argue RAW when it's in your favor. RAW, "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level." I'd like to point out it says his mastery level. It specifically calsl out the model's mastery level being a limiting factor

Yes and no. It says depends on his mastery level. Not is limited to his mastery level. It depends on his mastery level because he only knows a set number of psychic powers. Higher mastery levels know more powers. That is why the number of powers he can use each turn depends on his mastery levels, because the number of powers he can use each turn corresponds directly to the number of powers he knows. A higher mastery level knows more powers, therefore a higher mastery level can use more powers each turn, therefore the number of psychic powers a psyker can use each turn depends on his psychic mastery level.

 

 

RAW, a psyker can only use one power per mastery level.

No, a psyker can use each of the powers he has generated, the primaris power and the Force power, all in the same turn. A ML 1 psyker could cast 3 powers (or more maybe, if I missed something) whereas a ML 3 psyker could cast 5 powers a turn. In this way, the number of powers they can use each turn depends on their mastery level.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

It's weird how you only argue RAW when it's in your favor.

 

I do not.

 

I've explained time and time again in this thread how that statement *isn't* part of the rule mechanics.  Can't work.  And isn't defined.

 

IJ.  Do Denied and Failed casts count toward the PML limit?  Why?

 

From page 24 onward, when we're told *how* to resolve the Psychic Phase, can you find a single mention of anything being limited by the PML?  It's just not there.

 

Time and again the number of Warp Charges you have is mentioned.  PML, not once.

[Captain Coolpants]

I think this needs a separate thread. This is for interceptor loadouts and tactics. Not ''how many powers can a psyker level 1 use''.

 

Even though we all clearly understand that the answer is *supposed* to be 1 power....

[Ozshock]

omg people how clear cut can this be...

 

"the amount of psychic powers a psyker can use depends on his mastery level"

 

yes it doesnt say..."a PML1 psyker can only cast one power"...but isnt it DAMN obvious that is what is meant??

 

as soon as you cast a power, whether it gets denied/fails/perils/whatever...it is cast...you cant attempt to manifest the same psychic power again...IN THE RULES

 

do i have to link the whole section to you people??

 

maybe the rule needs to be FAQed to be completely clear to everyone...but its pretty damn obvious...in which version of the rules has ML1 psykers been able to cast the same amount of powers as a ML3/4, or where would it even make sense that a PML1 psyker is the same trength as a PML3/4?...be thankful that you can cast a warp charge 3 power AT ALL.

 

it would be awesome if my GKSS could cast Hammerhand AND force...would make them OP, not to mention banishment...or my purifer squad could cast Cleansing Flame, Hammerhand AND force...sound a bit outrageous? yeh it does...

im gonna refer this to the rules thread...this thread was about interceptors and how you use them...not psychic powers...end this discussion here and send it back onto the Interceptors...come to the rules forum and argue about psychic powers...

[IndigoJack]

The thing is, it is mentioned. It's at the top of page 22, and even in bold. Granted, it is only once, but definitely mentioned. I'll give you that "use" isn't defined in the psychic phase, but GW isn't known for clarity when it comes to rules writing. If it wasn't in bold, I might concede that it was a fluff rule. But that bols thing, man, it really throws a wrench in it. And while I think adeptus has a good arguement, it falls apart when you look at things units that don't generate powers. How does the number of psychic powers they cast depend on their mastery level?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hey guys, can we stop the argument about Mastery levels on here for now? By all means make a new thread for it, but I'd rather this return to discussion about Interceptors :)

 

Getting back OT:

 

I'm gonna be running Interceptors soon in my own list, thinking of this;

 

Justicar w/hammer, 2x Inteceptors w/incinerators, 7x Interceptors w/swords

(310 points)

 

Combat squad, Shunt up, BBQ two different units. Dunno if I should take a second hammer though (by taking two different squads). Do people get much use out of the hammer Justicar anyway?

[Landrick]

Hey guys, can we stop the argument about Mastery levels on here for now? By all means make a new thread for it, but I'd rather this return to discussion about Interceptors

Getting back OT:

I'm gonna be running Interceptors soon in my own list, thinking of this;

Justicar w/hammer, 2x Inteceptors w/incinerators, 7x Interceptors w/swords

(310 points)

Combat squad, Shunt up, BBQ two different units. Dunno if I should take a second hammer though (by taking two different squads). Do people get much use out of the hammer Justicar anyway?

I was thinking the same thing, except giving my justicar a halberd to cut down opposing characters and let wounds spill onto the unit before they hit me

[IndigoJack]

Hey guys, can we stop the argument about Mastery levels on here for now? By all means make a new thread for it, but I'd rather this return to discussion about Interceptors

Getting back OT:

I'm gonna be running Interceptors soon in my own list, thinking of this;

Justicar w/hammer, 2x Inteceptors w/incinerators, 7x Interceptors w/swords

(310 points)

Combat squad, Shunt up, BBQ two different units. Dunno if I should take a second hammer though (by taking two different squads). Do people get much use out of the hammer Justicar anyway?

If I took hammers, I generally kept them away from the justicar so it can't be challenged out. That's an artifact from 6th though, and I haven't really found a reason to put them back on the justicar (other than a sweet extra attack, which may be enough reason in it's own right)

[Gentlemanloser]

Seconding IJ above.

 

I suppose it depends on what you want the hammer for.  Hitting a LR, leave it on a normal dude.  2 hits should be enough.  Killing TDA?  Wrong Squad, might just as well not have the Hammer. ;)