Thunderwolf Cavalry as individual units

[Baulder]

have you considered swiftclaws as a biomancy runepriest delivery system with a WG that has a powerfist?

 

same points per wound for basic swiftclaws vs. TWC and the ability to turboboost/jink 

 

granted they don't have as good a strength or staying power in combat as the TWC alone but if you are looking for extra wounds to deliver the runepriests into combat this could be a cheaper option.

[skeletoro]

Unfortunately I think the limit on only attempting each power once is once per unit rather than once per pskyer, weirdly!!

[tjdudey]

Unfortunately I think the limit on only attempting each power once is once per unit rather than once per pskyer, weirdly!!

Thats a real shame,

 

If RPs are together, they should be like the Zoanthropes for nids, each can attempt to cast.

[skeletoro]

Yeah, swift claws are actually a pretty good unit. You're getting 14 attacks of various kinds on the charge, for the amount a single thunder wolf would set you back.

 

Of course, you're lacking the +1 strength, rending, and you're hit by WS4 on a 3+.

 

Note, however, that biomancy shores up these weaknesses rather well:

 

enfeeblement makes the unit only wounded on a 6+ by strength 4 (now 3) attacks - halving incoming wounds (which, against that baseline marine test case is better than a boost to WS4, which would only reduce incoming wounds by one quarter). Enfeeblement also reduces target toughness by 1, making up for the lack of TWC strength 5.

 

Endurance grants the unit feel no pain(4+), which is pretty decent because it stacks with what they've already got - a 3+ armour save and a 4+ jink (or better) if they choose to use it. This would also be nice to compensate for swiftclaw's difficulties in taking a beating in close combat.

[tjdudey]

ok then, what do I buy now, Bikes or TWC?

Wife: 'Whats this REALLY BIG charge on the credit card?'

Me:

EDIT: Someone needs to open an online Warhammer store called 'Gifts for your wife' So it shows up on the statement as such and she waits in expectation of a nice surprise.

[skeletoro]

And then replace one rune priest (in each squad) with a space marine librarian for a points discount, and chapter tactics. White scars grants hit and run (arguably awesome for swift claws - they have twin linked bolter overwatch and counter attack when charged, and TL bolters, HOW and a bonus two attacks when charging... they DON'T want to get locked in combat!) and astral claws grant Skilled Rider (automatically pass dangerous terrain, +1 to jink cover saves).

[Torin]

hard to choose huh!!! :)

[skeletoro]

Oh, umm, I forgot. Technically all runic weapons are str: user ap3. No access to the staff statline unfortunately . They really need to amend that!

[tjdudey]

Oh, umm, I forgot. Technically all runic weapons are str: user ap3. No access to the staff statline unfortunately . They really need to amend that!

Where does it specify that.

If they count as Force weapons, surely they use the profile of Force weapons in the rulebook? Either an axe, sword or staff?

[tjdudey]

From the codex:

 

Runic Weapon: Runic weapons are the signature tools of
the Rune Priests, often taking the form of staffs or wickedly
bladed axes. Carved with protective sigils and canticles of
banishment, the weapon affords excellent protection against
the powers of the Warp. A runic weapon is a force weapon.
Furthermore, whenever an enemy model succeeds on a
Psychic test within 24" of the bearer, roll a dice - on the roll
of a 4+ that power is nullified. A runic weapon always
wounds Daemon models on the roll of a 2+. This special
ability has no effect on vehicle models.

[tjdudey]

The only comment on RUnic weapons in the FAQ is this:

 

Page 36-Runic Weapons
The fourth sentence of the Runic Weapons rule should
be replaced with the following:
'Furthermore, a model with a runic weapon adds 1 to
Deny the Witch rolls.'

[Baulder]

my understanding was that they (as you say tjdudey, being force weapons) take the profile of the respective weapon they are modelled after. e.g. power staff, power axe, power sword etc..

 

or did this change and I missed it?

[Marshall Bretton]

they count as unusual force weapons as they have their own special cc rules, therefore use the default profile of str user ap 3

[tjdudey]

they count as unusual force weapons as they have their own special cc rules, therefore use the default profile of str user ap 3

What are the 'special CC rules' that qualify them as unusual force weapons?

 

oh...I guess you mean the Wounding Daemons on 2+.

 

That cheeses me off as I never play anyone with Daemons, as no one in my gaming group has them...

 

I will speak to my group and agree we can play as I have been.

[Marshall Bretton]

yeah thats what i was referring to. It very rarely comes into play though, i have fought deamons once and forgot the damn thing as well.

 

I expect that will change when we get a new dex so that the weapon type has a purpose, right now you can have a runic axe with the same effects as a runic banana which is pointless

[DanPesci]

there was a big debate about the RP force weapon a while back, cant find the link, and as far as i remember there was no official ruling on it, however people were generally in one of two camps

 

1. it takes the profile of what it is modelled after, as power weapons do

2. it counts as an unusual force weapon (as it is a force weapon with extra special rules) and so always counts as S:user AP3

 

dont know how either of those arguments fall in rulings for force weapons/unusual force weapons in 7th.

 

But hey, anyway, back on topic, 

 

And then replace one rune priest (in each squad) with a space marine librarian for a points discount, and chapter tactics. White scars grants hit and run (arguably awesome for swift claws - they have twin linked bolter overwatch and counter attack when charged, and TL bolters, HOW and a bonus two attacks when charging... they DON'T want to get locked in combat!) and astral claws grant Skilled Rider (automatically pass dangerous terrain, +1 to jink cover saves).

 

hold on...so your saying if i take an IC with certain chapter tactics, and attach him to a unit from the space wolves codex, then that unit also benefits from his chapter tactics??? Surely not? (otherwise, hello grey hunters with sons of terra tactics in drop pods)

[tjdudey]

Runic Banana

S User AP4 Auto wounds the stupid Grey Knight Orangutan thing 

[Marshall Bretton]

no, chapter tactics only benefit units with the chapter tactics special rule, and even then only from the same detachment. otherwise you could do all sort of crazy

[Baulder]

no, chapter tactics only benefit units with the chapter tactics special rule, and even then only from the same detachment. otherwise you could do all sort of crazy

 

indeed, I think that is exactly why the limitation was put on the chapter tactics rules.

[DanPesci]

 

no, chapter tactics only benefit units with the chapter tactics special rule, and even then only from the same detachment. otherwise you could do all sort of crazy

 

indeed, I think that is exactly why the limitation was put on the chapter tactics rules.

 

 

hahah phew, that makes all sorts of sense! 

[Valerian]

Unfortunately I think the limit on only attempting each power once is once per unit rather than once per pskyer, weirdly!!

The rules states: "To manifest a psychic power, you will need to select on of your Psyker units....Then, select a psychic power known to the selected unit that the unit has not already attempted to manifest in this Psychic phase."

 

Clearly, two Rune Priests are distinct "Psyker units" originally; one might question how this plays out if they both attach to the same unit, such as these Swift Claws. I think FAQ clarification is in order here.

 

 

there was a big debate about the RP force weapon a while back, cant find the link, and as far as i remember there was no official ruling on it, however people were generally in one of two camps

 

1. it takes the profile of what it is modelled after, as power weapons do

2. it counts as an unusual force weapon (as it is a force weapon with extra special rules) and so always counts as S:user AP3

 

dont know how either of those arguments fall in rulings for force weapons/unusual force weapons in 7th.

That's the gist of it. I've asked the FAQ team to address this issue, but for now the RAQ on this is clear - Runic Weapons do have a special close combat ability, thus must be catagorized as Unusual Force Weapons until GW provides an Amendment/Errata/FAQ telling us to do otherwise. This doesn't prevent anyone, however, from working out a different way to play them against their opponent, or within their group of adversaries. If your opponents are cool with you treating them as distinct weapon types (as modelled) then have at it.

 

And then replace one rune priest (in each squad) with a space marine librarian for a points discount, and chapter tactics. White scars grants hit and run (arguably awesome for swift claws - they have twin linked bolter overwatch and counter attack when charged, and TL bolters, HOW and a bonus two attacks when charging... they DON'T want to get locked in combat!) and astral claws grant Skilled Rider (automatically pass dangerous terrain, +1 to jink cover saves).

 

hold on...so your saying if i take an IC with certain chapter tactics, and attach him to a unit from the space wolves codex, then that unit also benefits from his chapter tactics??? Surely not? (otherwise, hello grey hunters with sons of terra tactics in drop pods)

 

Thankfully, Chapter Tactics aren't shared in that way. Neither are several of our abilities (i.e. Ragnar's War Howl only works on Space Wolves Faction units, etc.).

 

no, chapter tactics only benefit units with the chapter tactics special rule, and even then only from the same detachment. otherwise you could do all sort of crazy

Yep.

[Valerian]

I hope like hell rune priests get access to TWM in our next codex. Man, imagine biomancy-cav!

I don't think they are likely to, for the same reason that Rune Priests and Wolf Priests didn't get access in the 5e (current) codex, and that is that it would violate the fluff for Thunderwolves as developed when this unit was introduced in this current dex. The Thunderwolf Cavalry are a subset of Wolf Guard - they're the elite of the Wolf Guard that take on the challenge to go out and master the apex predator of Asaheim. It makes sense that Wolf Guard Battle Leaders (who are still technically Wolf Guard in the fluff) and Wolf Lords (who all are selected from among the Wolf Guard when the previous Lord is killed) can have access. The fluff justification is that they were among the Thunderwolf Cavalry in their previous back-story capacity, and continue to operate in this way in their new role in the Great Company.

 

Wolf Priests and Rune Priests, however, are not selected from the Wolf Guard, so they would have never had the opportunity to be Thunderwolf Cavalry riders previous to their current positions.

 

We get on shaky ground, now, with Iron Priests, who also wouldn't have ever been among the Wolf Guard, yet were given access to Thunderwolf Mounts. I can only assume that they were because of some justification that they're the ones that help care for the Thunderwolves, and do the bionics/cybernetics work to repair injuries. As some sort of default "kennel-masters" perhaps is why they get them.

 

V

[tjdudey]

interesting point...

[skeletoro]

Hit and run, as well as skilled rider, grant a bonus to any unit containing one or more models with the special rule.

[Valerian]

Hit and run, as well as skilled rider, grant a bonus to any unit containing one or more models with the special rule.

Hmm.  Indeed they do.  Those two might, in fact, work then.  I'll look at wording in SM Codex later to see if there are any other factors at play.

 

V