Remembering the 13th Crusade: The End of Time

[incinerator950]

Out of respect for Vesper, Mal, and ADB, I have been thinking of reworking the Wartorn into a Black Legion warband.

[Vesper]

Thinking of taking the black, eh ?

Best way to get a ticket to Terra. Payed with imperial blood.

[RapatoR]

 

Ok so if I get it correctly the lore was changed from: Cadia is taken, the crusade is over.

to: Cadia is taken, the crusade is underway, projected course Terra.

So where is hurt in that?

We lost everything that happened during the crusade - which is actually a lot of stuff, if you look beyond Cadia.

 

The thing is, the 13th BC never really had an impact on the setting. (Depending on who you ask that's either a good thing or a bad thing - in fact, it's where a lot of the initial disappointment over the campaign stemmed from)

As a story however, it had some great, if overlooked fluff going for it.

 

But if I get it right then it has been changed to show victory of bad guys more clearly. Previously they just took Cadia and crusade was over. Now they took Cadia and crusade continues with final goal not being Cadia but Terra.

[Sception]

Out of respect for Vesper, Mal, and ADB, I have been thinking of reworking the Wartorn into a Black Legion warband.

You should! The Despoiler accepts any who will swear to his cause. Alone among the warlords of Chaos, Abaddon has shown the strength of purpose to reject the failures of the past, while remaining true to the long war. His tread beats out the Crimson Path to victory, and within his hearts sleep the keys to a future free from the tyranny of the corpse god, and all the other false gods that seek to corrupt and enslave the true faithful!

 

One Legion, One Purpose, One Warmaster, One Creed - the Black Shrine of Chaos Ascendant.

[incinerator950]

Aye, but I'm keeping my camo pattern.

[Vesper]

I like to think that's the theme of the Black Legion and the Long War :

 

And sadly, the Black Legion is black tux only, Incinerator :).

[Sception]

Black. Tie. Only.

 

 

Although I used to use a black & grey flecked urban camo pattern for my Black Legion infiltrate vets back in 3.5. Maybe something like that?

[incinerator950]

I'm sure it can be negotiated, if you look at all those cult choices.

[Vesper]

Oh yeah, you can include unique stuff, details in the paint scheme and stuff. But the black is quite mandatory. IIRC, it's something Abaddon takes seriously.

And it's also a mark. It bears signifiance, and prestige. Few dare paint their armour black because they know it's a Black Legion thing. And in the Eye, you don't want to mess with the Black Legion and Abaddon.

 

And for reals, that's the Black Legion theme.

[Sception]

I like this one:

 

 

Darkness, the ending days / Planets, magnetic haze

Arrive, the last dimension / Reject the apprehension

Committed we don't look back / The storm electric black

This war is all depicted / This story has been predicted

 

We are the dark and the light / We have the power of time

We are the serpents intertwined / The galaxy will unite

 

Prophet liars promise saviors / Can't stop to think we got another choice

Unforgiving soulless nature / It's not gonna die unless we cut off the head

Not gonna stop reaping / The prize is death

We made the pact when we / took our first breath

Fearless this is our quest / That distant star that is our gate

It is our gate / Go

 

We are the dark and the light / We have the power of time

We are the serpents intertwined / The galaxy will unite

This is the beginning / it's all starting now

[incinerator950]

Something like this, with more black.

 

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac116/incinerator950/Wartorn_zps659d417f.jpg

[Vesper]

Different shades of black ?

Why not !

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

But if I get it right then it has been changed to show victory of bad guys more clearly. Previously they just took Cadia and crusade was over. Now they took Cadia and crusade continues with final goal not being Cadia but Terra.

 

Except that Cadia certainly hasn't been taken in the new, paused fluff, the fight has barely begun. Terra is just now the stated objective.

 

And even after the EoT campaign, claims about fudging the results notwithstanding (don't want to comment on that), Cadia didn't fall. Although it was claimed to be a minor Chaos victory, the Imperium secured most of the key systems and sectors, with only the Cadian system looking dicey, and even then Chaos had not conquered Cadia (they had the advantage, but hadn't won yet), and the Imperium had dominated the void war. Reading the published campaign results, the gate held.

[Sception]

a bit more jaggedy and triangular is pretty much what I used to do with my infiltrating guys, yeah.

 

Dark grey urban camo pattern, solid black trim, red eye of horus sigil? Real minimalist effect, like charcoal or pale grey flesh tones & black hair as well? Maybe do matching color for the sigil and the eye lenses? both blue, or both red? same color for plasma coils & the like? Maybe try for a vaguely glowy effect? Again, real minimalist - nonchromatic black & greyscale, with a single glowing spot color thoughout?

 

Just a thought.

[Vesper]

 

 

But if I get it right then it has been changed to show victory of bad guys more clearly. Previously they just took Cadia and crusade was over. Now they took Cadia and crusade continues with final goal not being Cadia but Terra.

 

Except that Cadia certainly hasn't been taken in the new, paused fluff, the fight has barely begun. Terra is just now the stated objective.

 

And even after the EoT campaign, claims about fudging the results notwithstanding (don't want to comment on that), Cadia didn't fall. Although it was claimed to be a minor Chaos victory, the Imperium secured most of the key systems and sectors, with only the Cadian system looking dicey, and even then Chaos had not conquered Cadia (they had the advantage, but hadn't won yet), and the Imperium had dominated the void war. Reading the published campaign results, the gate held.

 

That's certainly debatable (as it has been fruitlessly debated a bajillion time), because of the pause.

I guess Abaddon didn't want Cadia for its breathtaking sunsets. The pylons always seemed to be the big deal of the planet, holding the warp and stuff.

Now, we also know that all the remaining (and pretty screwed, as the skies of Cadia were in the hands of Chaos) imperial forces on the planet had to fall back to a pole, leaving the whole planet to Chaos. If Abaddon does his thing to the pylons, I suppose the Eye would swallow the gate.

But we'll never know. As the 13th Black Crusade has been made a much major thing than it was. Cadia doesn't even appear to be a thing of importance now, merely the first victim of apocalyptic armies led by daemon primarchs and the Despoiler himself at the head of its Black Legion (that dwarfs the whole imperial order of battle from the global campaign). I fear Cadia isn't a match for the Despoiler anymore.

[A D-B]

I see people saying that No Campaing ever, had any influence on the Fluff...

 

 

I'm not sure that's what people are saying. Nothing on that scale, yes. Objectively true and completely relevant. Nothing ever, no. False and silly, and as far as I can see, not claimed at all.

 

 

It is what it is. We'll just adapt like we normally do. Just like my Wartorn, ceasingvto exist because of a retcon.

 

That interests me muchly, dude. If it's not too much hassle, could you wing me a PM about it?

 

EDIT: Posted before I read page 4, but my curiosity still applies.

[incinerator950]

a bit more jaggedy and triangular is pretty much what I used to do with my infiltrating guys, yeah.

 

Dark grey urban camo pattern, solid black trim, red eye of horus sigil? Real minimalist effect, like charcoal or pale grey flesh tones & black hair as well? Maybe do matching color for the sigil and the eye lenses? both blue, or both red? same color for plasma coils & the like? Maybe try for a vaguely glowy effect? Again, real minimalist - nonchromatic black & greyscale, with a single glowing spot color thoughout?

 

Just a thought.

I like minimalist too. The pattern is a concept from photo shopping dazzle camo into the marine, but I can't use it now that my laptop is almost defunct. I can use the sigil as red and keep the pauldrons base black for red eyes of Horus too. I prefer keeping a mercenary feel, even if I go possessed and prophet Lord I want the Demon to be like that.

[Emperors Immortals]

As for the pylons; I have the theory that Abbaddon did NOT want to destablisise the cadian pylon network but instead exert more influence over the ChaosGods. With the only way to enter the universe under in his iron grip he could dictate teh terms of teh new Empire much more effectivly.

 

I had a massive post that was much more articulate then my usual contributions, but internet happened.

 

So, the short version.

 

Cadia brought me back into 40k! I had years ago bought the 2nd ed starter and ran BA and Chaos but had drifted away because girls and cars. Then my mate told me about this campaign, and I had only a couple of weeks left. My plan was simple.

 

I dedicated my unnamed chaos warband to the BL. I had a force made of SpaceWolf models painted like Night Lords, so they set forth and brought a heap of fantasy beastmen converted to hold clubs and count as hand weapons. It was awesome.

 

I dont know if our results were dedicated to Cadia itself, but I remember about 2 weeks of almost non-stop 40k between our Orks, Chaos (me) and UltraMarines. Oh and the new guy (golly gee is a Tau?)

 

The feeling of changing the univese was exhilarating and is the sole thing thats driven my hobby ever since. The result merely foreshadowed the esteem GW coroporate held for teh front line hobbyist's and staff.

 

Andy Chambers is my hero, the feel of the Skaven book is a masterpiece. I still want GW to bring him back and revamp the CSM line. In fact I had a petition done a few years back.

[Emperors Immortals]

Damn, just realised ive been doing this for about 21 years. /sadold

[incinerator950]

ADB, clear your message inbox a bit please.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 

 

But if I get it right then it has been changed to show victory of bad guys more clearly. Previously they just took Cadia and crusade was over. Now they took Cadia and crusade continues with final goal not being Cadia but Terra.

 

Except that Cadia certainly hasn't been taken in the new, paused fluff, the fight has barely begun. Terra is just now the stated objective.

 

And even after the EoT campaign, claims about fudging the results notwithstanding (don't want to comment on that), Cadia didn't fall. Although it was claimed to be a minor Chaos victory, the Imperium secured most of the key systems and sectors, with only the Cadian system looking dicey, and even then Chaos had not conquered Cadia (they had the advantage, but hadn't won yet), and the Imperium had dominated the void war. Reading the published campaign results, the gate held.

 

That's certainly debatable (as it has been fruitlessly debated a bajillion time), because of the pause.

I guess Abaddon didn't want Cadia for its breathtaking sunsets. The pylons always seemed to be the big deal of the planet, holding the warp and stuff.

Now, we also know that all the remaining (and pretty screwed, as the skies of Cadia were in the hands of Chaos) imperial forces on the planet had to fall back to a pole, leaving the whole planet to Chaos. If Abaddon does his thing to the pylons, I suppose the Eye would swallow the gate.

But we'll never know. As the 13th Black Crusade has been made a much major thing than it was. Cadia doesn't even appear to be a thing of importance now, merely the first victim of apocalyptic armies led by daemon primarchs and the Despoiler himself at the head of its Black Legion (that dwarfs the whole imperial order of battle from the global campaign). I fear Cadia isn't a match for the Despoiler anymore.

 

Yet with the Imperial victory in space, the forces of order would've been in a good position to reverse the tide on Cadia. The war wasn't over at the end of the campaign, and the gate had been buckled, but not sundered. Oh what could've been....

 

Do you have a source for the Black Legion being so large? I find that claim somewhat dubious, not only are the strengths of Chaos warbands nebulously defined the majority of the time, I find it unlikely the Black Legion outnumber the Imperial Guard and Titan Legions in addition to the Astartes (as Traitor Guard, LatD and Traitor Titan Legions are thier own things, not part of the Legion), and we were only ever given a fragment of the orders of battle for both sides of that campaign, every list of forces ended in 'continued in file ref: XYZ'.

[daboarder]

 

 

 

 

But if I get it right then it has been changed to show victory of bad guys more clearly. Previously they just took Cadia and crusade was over. Now they took Cadia and crusade continues with final goal not being Cadia but Terra.

 

Except that Cadia certainly hasn't been taken in the new, paused fluff, the fight has barely begun. Terra is just now the stated objective.

 

And even after the EoT campaign, claims about fudging the results notwithstanding (don't want to comment on that), Cadia didn't fall. Although it was claimed to be a minor Chaos victory, the Imperium secured most of the key systems and sectors, with only the Cadian system looking dicey, and even then Chaos had not conquered Cadia (they had the advantage, but hadn't won yet), and the Imperium had dominated the void war. Reading the published campaign results, the gate held.

 

That's certainly debatable (as it has been fruitlessly debated a bajillion time), because of the pause.

I guess Abaddon didn't want Cadia for its breathtaking sunsets. The pylons always seemed to be the big deal of the planet, holding the warp and stuff.

Now, we also know that all the remaining (and pretty screwed, as the skies of Cadia were in the hands of Chaos) imperial forces on the planet had to fall back to a pole, leaving the whole planet to Chaos. If Abaddon does his thing to the pylons, I suppose the Eye would swallow the gate.

But we'll never know. As the 13th Black Crusade has been made a much major thing than it was. Cadia doesn't even appear to be a thing of importance now, merely the first victim of apocalyptic armies led by daemon primarchs and the Despoiler himself at the head of its Black Legion (that dwarfs the whole imperial order of battle from the global campaign). I fear Cadia isn't a match for the Despoiler anymore.

 

Yet with the Imperial victory in space, the forces of order would've been in a good position to reverse the tide on Cadia. The war wasn't over at the end of the campaign, and the gate had been buckled, but not sundered. Oh what could've been....

 

Do you have a source for the Black Legion being so large? I find that claim somewhat dubious, not only are the strengths of Chaos warbands nebulously defined the majority of the time, I find it unlikely the Black Legion outnumber the Imperial Guard and Titan Legions in addition to the Astartes (as Traitor Guard, LatD and Traitor Titan Legions are thier own things, not part of the Legion), and we were only ever given a fragment of the orders of battle for both sides of that campaign, every list of forces ended in 'continued in file ref: XYZ'.

 

Yeah I;ve heard the "supply" arguement...and its bunk. this is the warp man, the setting is FILLED with stories of chaos forces opening warp portals and traipsing out of them (and thats not to mention partial access to the webway), I dont see space lanes being a major issue for the 13th crusade.

[Prot]

The more I think about this thread, the more painfully nostalgic I get about it. I'm think I'm starting to hate Prot for reminding me about how much fun this really was.

Get in line. Half this forum wants my half dead corpse dangling from a chaos Icon, dripping with nurgle-ish snot.

I sometimes feel like Forrix. Over the past... 18 years? I've just killed so many of those of those Golden Wheelchair worshiping fools... I need REAL motivation to keep slamming loyalists down on the daily for the dark gods. (free lunch and an extra set of horns (while handy) just doesn't do it for me anymore.) I need another EoT!!!

I have a solution!! I think the best thing you could do.... is to pitch this idea to your fellow GW/Black Library folk. You have the power to do this, and the rewards would be greater than even you could ever imagine (Just so you know, Abaddon told me to say that part.)

[Emperors Immortals]

Maybe the fan sites can launch something to tie in the Talon of Hours release?

[incinerator950]

I'm going to take another spin at the Wartorn. Given that, I'm going to need help writing them as it seems like a fairly likely chance they might join the Black Legion.