Trying to create a decent Crimson Slaughter Core

[the jeske]

the new list requires a belfegor or two 4 lvls in psykers to work , right now against a lot of list the invisibility won't be cast and then you have a 600pts of meq bodies that move on foot.

 

also I would watch out for D weapons , if I were you.

[Dallas Drake]

the new list requires a belfegor or two 4 lvls in psykers to work , right now against a lot of list the invisibility won't be cast and then you have a 600pts of meq bodies that move on foot.

 

also I would watch out for D weapons , if I were you.

 

2 Level 3 Psykers with Spell Familiars will get it off (7-12 dice), it's just a case of will your opponent roll enough 6s? I admit, I love Be'lakor for his guaranteed Invisability.

 

In 15 years of playing I've yet to come across a D weapon. I guess it depends what groups you move in? Either way, a Manticore or Basalisk is scary enough for MEQs.

[RolandTHTG]

I did alright in the game I played. Final result was a 10-3 defeat, but it was partially due to a couple mistakes that got compounded by bad dice.

I was running a semi-experimental list. I know the following are not nearly optimized, but I was trying out a few things. :

Lord, demonheart, blade, horns and steed of Slaanesh (Shrouded for warlord trait) with 5 unmarked spawn.

5 Drazhnich plasmagun Chosen in rhino,

Khorne termis in Land Raider

Prophet sorcerer, ML 3 and Mark of Slaanesh with 11-man possessed squad (Slaanesh and Icon of Excess) (rolled Ecstasy and the primaris from Slaanesh. From malfic rolled cursed earth and sacrifice, which I swapped for summoning (I only have plaguebearers and a GUO, no heralds, since I haven't updated my demons since 3.5)

Maulerfiend

Blasterbox rhino (10 NM with 2 blastmasters in a rhino w/ havok launcher)

 

vs Dark eldar list prepping for a local tourney.

wracks in raider (darklance)

2 x 5 wych in venom

3(or 4? ) x 5 warriors w/ blaster in venom (there were a lot of venoms, all with the two splinter cannons)

3 trueborn w/ 2 darklance (these guys might be the source of the 4th venom above)

2 ravagers with all darklance

Lady Mals w/ 2 Haemonculi and a bunch of grotesques (6 or 7?) in a FW Tantalus

Quadgun

 

Mission was bigguns, 4 objectives, and deployment on the short table edges. I won the roll-off and chose to deploy and go first. We both deployed close to the edges of our deployment zones. He did not seize.

Turn 1, I moved forward 12 with the Lord, possessed, mauler, Land raider, with the chosen following behind the lord. Only 1 bonus charge in the psyker phase, so I cast Cursed Earth, getting both charges, which he couldn't block. Only effective shooting was some snapshots from the Land raider, which killed one trueborn with lance and caused the others to flee off the quadgun. I rolled a glance and a scatter off for my blastmaster on the tantalus.

His turn 1 he moves a good deal of his stuff forward, gets out the wyches by my mauler and landraider (the landraider was my fault, I had misheard which unit was where, and thought I was outside melta range of a warrior squad, not within charge range of a wych squad) and the Tantalus unloads near my lord and spawn. He only does a couple hull points and some wounds on the spawn in shooting, but the wyches wreck the Land raider in assault, and the terminators are pinned bailing out. Though the Maulerfiend actually wins his assault when the wyches miss all but one attack, they hold, as he only killed two. The Grotesque squad actually fails its charge, though this may no have been the blessing it initially seemed.

My turn two the possessed roll up the 3++ save. My lord moves up slightly to prepare for assault. The psychic phase again rolls a one, so I cast the Cursed earth (for a 2++) and the Slaanesh primaris. In the assault, the possessed drag down one of the empty wych venoms. The lord/spawn assault truly meets a wall of death, taking 5 wounds from overwatch. In the combat, because the spawn went last from charging through cover, they all are beaten down while the lord doesn't even get through the grotesque champ, due to some good feel no pain rolls and some whiffing on my part.

His turn two all his venoms shoot at the Possessed, but thanks to the 2++ I only lose 4 models from about 30 wounds put on them. The ravagers both shoot my terminators, leaving me with one model left. My lord finally finishes off the Grotesque champ, and is rewarded with the boon of Instant Death on his melee attacks. 1 vs 10 suddenly looks very winnable.

The rest of the game, The lord carved through the grotesque and HQ in the next 3 rounds of combat, while the possessed rolled dice like guardsmen (I was only hitting 2-3 attacks a turn, and tying combat with wracks ) and the rest of my army slowly got whittled away. He died bottom of 4 to a darklance after trying to wreck the tantalus in melee (got all but 1 hull point, so it got away from him) I summoned one unit of plaguebearers before my sorcerer got killed, but they got shot up pretty well, though they almost managed to contest one of his objectives, but the last one died to the last shot of the 5^th turn. I did manage to take down the Tantalus with a blastmaster (apparently the first time he's lost it in his practices) but most of the venoms survived and by the end turn 5 had secured two objectives and were contesting mine. I also had only a couple models left, the remnants of the blastmaster squad, and they were in combat with a couple of wyches on the objective.

 

Overall, despite the end result, I was mostly happy with how the units performed, especially the possessed. Even with their poor result vs the wracks, they crossed the field, soaked up all the firepower directed at them, and still had 6 & the sorcerer reach the enemy line. Getting Cursed Earth is awesome, especially combined with rolling the 3++ result to make it 2++. Casting it first also helps with the summoning, as you can bring the demons in without scatter.

I also am not used to playing against another aggressive list,  so my normal opening of barreling straight towards the enemy left me completely open to his first turn.
 

For my list, I do need a better delivery system for the terminators if I want to keep them. How have people found the Storm eagle to be? Or possibly swap them for mutilators and try to use Cursed Earth to bring them in w/o scatter. Hmmm....

[Dallas Drake]

What could you drop the Terminators in the Land a Raider for? Another 10 man Noise Marine squad & another Maulerfiend? What about some Daemons allies? Deep Striking a Keeper of Secrets using Cursed Earth could be super good fun!

 

Dallas

[Prot]

Okay, in a fit of frustration (I had to make SOME sort of decision before my head exploded. Bringing a different army every game is exhausting. Not to mention counter productive!)

 

I made the following Crimson Slaughter list for today.... Depending on how badly it goes, I may need help tweaking it:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/293354-1850-crimson-slaughter-for-today/

[Prot]

Okay I have to admit after my last game I have a few apprehensions about Crimson Slaughter, which include:

 

- Are Possessed doing enough as a troop to justify their inclusion?

  + I'm still thinking this over. I was happy with their opening attacks with MoK, but I'm starting to think it's time to try MoN

 

- Kranon: is he a contender or a pretender? 

  + I compare Kranon to Khârn. Both are cool, but out of the box I think Khârn is killier, AND cheaper. Not only that but Khârn's psychic defense is pretty darn strong. However, Kranon is based on Artefacts, not a unit entry so that makes him far more flexible. You can add and subtract things to your heart's desire, a bike, a 4++, MoK, whatever you want. Plus with Voices he does blend with the Possessed very well. Still I think the comparison is valid between these two guys.

 

- Draznicht + Chosen: Is there really justifiable room for these guys?

  + Possessed are super scoring, but take valuable points up. Chosen with Draz are very good. Chosen with Draz and Balestar (Prescience) Sorc are very, VERY good.  That squad wiped a squad of termies with ease between the Prescience Melta's and close combat. But still... this starts to make a list feel very, very small.

 

- Balestar Sorc. 

  + Should he be in every list? I'm thinking his flexibilty lends him to so many list types, and I had no trouble getting his stuff off at 3 WCs and a Familar.  He could work fantastic in the back ground casting Prescience on a Forgefiend. Just hanging out with Cultists on a Quad.  Or as mentioned we worked really well with the Chosen. (at least you can cast Prescience on your own squad in a rhino.)

 

- HQ conundrum:

   + Typically, without using Allies, I have been taking  Kranon and Bale Sorc for HQ's. BUT the reality is to tighten up my compete level, I'm thinking one of those guys gets dumped for a Flying Daemon Prince with MoN. Yes, I can't use the Mace with CS, however, he is still beastly in CC, and with Shroud he can be a real menace. Who do I drop?

 

Conclusion:

I don't really have one yet, but the two things I keep nailing this down two are: Is possessed as super scoring strong enough to stay away from Black Legion's super scoring Chosen?  Are the Crimson Slaughter toys for that matter good enough to stay away from Black Legion/Regular Chaos?  I think it really comes down to those two questions: Chosen vs Possessed, and HQ preferences.

[Dallas Drake]

Unless you are absolutely head over heels in love with Possessed then the question is: how badly do you want a 2+ save on your HQ and do you run Malefic? If those two are a 'meh' then I'd revisit C:CSM or BL.

 

Edit: you seem drawn to Chosen Prot, I'll warn you they bring their own issues (low model count, expensive units etc). I did play about with a MSU BL army, squads of 6-7 Chosen, 3 Plasma guns & an Autocannon/ML. In the end I wasn't sold on it despite beginning conversions on the DV models. You'll find plenty of threads on BL Chosen on here.

[Prot]

Okay I am retrying a list I had some success with earlier in this thread, with a twist.

 

No I am not using space hippies (daemons) nor Malefic.

 

Basically unless I play some sort of teir one super list, I'm hoping that I can get away with Kranon in a LR with Possessed and MoK on all but him (Question: is it worth taking the Khorne Icon on such a squad?)

 

Balestar Sorc buffing a 15 man squad of Cultists, and/or Forgefiend behind an Aegis. This means only one maulerfiend in the list (I normally take 2)

 

For the first time I'm trying to support this rush with a 3 Brute formation dropping in.

 

I have no idea if this will work but I will tell you that twin linking a little blob of Cultists Autoguns is fun, and I still find Kranon a lot of fun to use. I'm guessing he would be even better on a bike, but then I lose the need for the Possessed. And I admit I really like the DV model for Kranon.

 

I'll give this a shot and see if it has any merit or I'll junk it.