Stonerhino Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I would say however that in game play the Wolves never have had an Emperor's Champion. It has never really been a part of the game play that seems to echo in their fluff as well. Does any chapter have an Emperor's Champion other than the Black Templars? What I do know is that the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves hold honour duels between the two legions. In Unremembered Empire, the Space Wolf leader wants to challenge a Dark Angel champion but ends up getting slapped down by the Lion himself. Khârn kills a Space Wolf who seems to be a champion ("wielder of Serpent Fang"). Yeah...I would say the Sixth has champion equivalents Of course the SWs have champions. With the exception of the Dark Angels I dought they are well known however. For example when Redknife introduces himself in Fear to Tread. "He offered no other information about himself, no record of great company or honorific, as if his name alone were enough to mark him." ~ Fear to Tread. If you look at the structure of the Wolves the Lords are each champions, escorted by their own champions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Of course the SWs have champions. Tell that to the ppl saying the SW don't have champs because it doesn't fit the pack mentality Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Yes, the Space Wolves are pack-oriented. But I think one thing we forget is that they are not one giant pack, or even thirteen giant pack. They are hundreds and hundreds of packs all bonded together with the hierarchy looking something like Russ being the Alpha of all Alphas with thirteen packs bending the knee. In turn, those thirteen packs are the alpha packs(command squads) of the Thirteen Great Companies. An below them are other squads. And so on, so forth until you get to the "omega squad", which in the SW Legion would simply be the least experienced pack. And from that, it is only natural that certain pack alphas would become recognized as "champions". They aren't going against the pack mentality, but rather they are proving where thrir pack stands in the Legion by not being the Alphas Up High, but by being strong enough that the Alphas Up High name them out of every single pack there is to represent one of the Thirteen Great Packs in the Almighty Rout as a Champion among Alphas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 To be honest, the term "pack" is being overused and I think there is a clear difference between the actual concept of a pack and it's hierarchy and how packs are used in the Space Wolves and that is where some of this is coming from. Or I'm making it up, it happens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Or have you considered that the proper use is overlapping with the improvised use and thus both become accurate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Or have you considered that the proper use is overlapping with the improvised use and thus both become accurate? Considered..? That sounds like thinking, so no :D I mean in the sense that people say the pack mentality doesn't lend itself to a champion and how in reality that may be the case, although the alpha male is technically the champion in a wolf pack I suppose, but because of the way the sons of Russ are a bastardized form of so many things it cannot strictly apply. Also, stop making me look stupid Kol, you cur! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT_Cennar Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 The question is not do SWs have champions. But do they talk about them ? There is just 1 book about SWs and 2-3 pasages in other legions books about them so dont be harsh on SW players claiming to the Titles,There is just not as much fluff for them. In my opinion Prospero Burns brings it to the point.. Wolfs DONT talk about matters of the Vlka to outsiders. Still they LOVE to brag with their skills and victorys in front of each other (to encourage each other?). So PBurns(Casper) missed the oportunity to bring some light to who of the wolfs is "the" champion as he was invited to such a feast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Well we have Arjac in 40k time, which doesn't seem to affect his ability to lead packs or run in a pack of Wolf Guard so I would say HH Wolves could have an equivalent that we have just not been properly introduced to yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3714961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Of course the SWs have champions. Tell that to the ppl saying the SW don't have champs because it doesn't fit the pack mentality I think you might be mistaking me quoting you in support of your post as being an argument against your post. Which would be odd considering you said "Yeah...I would say the Sixth has champion equivalents". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3715310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 I think you might be mistaking me quoting you in support of your post as being an argument against your post. Which would be odd considering you said "Yeah...I would say the Sixth has champion equivalents". Wait what? Don't we both agree that the SW would have champions? I'm aware of that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3715344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Hehe, I think what we are all trying to agree on is that there seems to be no officially codified title for a champion amongst the Space Wolves/Rout of the Horus Heresy. There are obviously champions and badasses running around the Legion but are not well known because the Wolves are not exactly cuddly and loveable guys. It is obvious as well from the lack of titles accorded to the seeming "champions" of the Space Wolves is that they do not have a special rank or title like Emperor's Champion. You are either it or you are not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3718401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwingt65 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Be quiet b1soul, lest those special snowflakes get a champion or two that can easily beat Sigismund :P Maybe they just don't have any, ya know? They are puppies in space. All of them are better then some german dude in a dress :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3718404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 There are obviously champions and badasses running around the Legion but are not well known because the Wolves are not exactly cuddly and loveable guys. No space marines are cuddly loveable guys. The SW "badasses" are probably famous. Every legion has famous guys. They just haven't been introduced to readers yet... or they have but their we haven't gotten a glimpse of their feats yet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3719863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Native Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm a Space Wolves fan - have been since 2nd Edition and I don't think they need any characters that are noted as Warriors of comparable ability to Khârn etc. They're already deadly - as are all Astartes - and skill of arms does not make you a Hero, Lucius is a good example of that (I'm aware that others will argue the point but despite his ability he lacks any heroic or inspiring qualities.) I'd prefer them to have a great Hero as opposed to a Great Champion. As to the executioner point, haven't they been openly referred to as that by the Sigilite in Vengeful Spirit? I listened to it via Audiobook while driving so can't recall accurately. I get why a lot of people don't like it - some take it as an inference that the Vlka Fenryka are somehow superior because of it and some take it as the Vlka Fenryka bigging themselves up. They're neither, they're Astartes and like all the other Legions they have a role which they perform - whether by design or accident. As a 20 year Space Wolf fan I love the way they've been portrayed in Prospero Burns. They're no longer the cartoonish vikings in space and have been properly fleshed out. They deserved it. And for what it's worth, I read someone saying on here how Vlka Fenryka fans hated how ADB portrayed the Wolves in Betrayer. Well, I didn't. I thought it was superb. I'd love to see him pen a Vlka Fenryka novel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3720936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Be quiet b1soul, lest those special snowflakes get a champion or two that can easily beat Sigismund :P Maybe they just don't have any, ya know? They are puppies in space. All of them are better then some german dude in a dress :-) Actually I think he's Turkish, but that same dress wearer saved your allfather's butt. I don't think the SW have any room to talk about tabard wearers seeing as how the Lion punched Russ out :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3721021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't think the SW have any room to talk about tabard wearers seeing as how the Lion punched Russ out after Russ saw the silliness of their fight and began laughing, the Lion heroically struck a combatant who was no longer fighting Fixed that for you. Also, atleast we Wolves didnt blow up our own planet, or punch the head off of a loyal servant for disagreeing. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3721031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 It has been said that when the knights of Caliban lost their horses, it more than halved the average IQ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3721183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 It has been said that when the knights of Caliban lost their horses, it more than halved the average IQ... http://media.giphy.com/media/rd7IVj5Zk9M8U/giphy.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3721633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 It has been said that when the knights of Caliban lost their horses, it more than halved the average IQ... ^_^ The knights of Caliban fell off their horses when laughing too much at the sight of the Vlyka Fenryka riding wolves :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3721947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosco Toppings Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The Wolves did have a champion but he's dead already - cheesy viking stereotype guy from Battle for the Abyss :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3722677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 It has been said that when the knights of Caliban lost their horses, it more than halved the average IQ... The knights of Caliban fell off their horses when laughing too much at the sight of the Vlyka Fenryka riding wolves How normative of them - surely only the mount should wear blinkers ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3723389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh come on, my play on 'norman' to link knights and socially conditioned behaviour was not that bad ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3726933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh come on, my play on 'norman' to link knights and socially conditioned behaviour was not that bad ;) Pistols at dawn....sir. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3727175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Even packs have Alpha Males, so yeah they had champions but they are insular in their nature, they keep things to themselves and use their stories as entertainment and inspiration. They are a legion they stands a lone since they see themselves as the Emperor's... (not going to say it fed up of it) and so they distant themselves to that they are misjudged, misunderstood and "feared", all this would lead me to think that whilst internally they have heroes externally no one would know, so no Sigismund and Khârn like figure would be known. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3727203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh man, who was the Wolf Lord of the 13th Company during the Heresy? He seemed pretty badass in that short story, plus any dude that follows the VI Legion Primarch into the Eye and pops out 10,000 yars later, still itching for a fight, qualifies as a Champion in my book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292001-who-are-the-great-sw-champions-of-the-heresy-era/page/3/#findComment-3727329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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