Azreal Deathcore

[Prot]

So I was thinking how I'm not too hot on full Ravenwing anymore, and I've ruled out full Deathwing simply because I face too much stuff that blows me out of the water locally.

 

So then I started thinking that Greenwing may not be my forte but Azrael could be the difference maker.

 

The problem is I have no idea what the best 'core' units to include with him. Also, as far as I know, he could be better suited for 7th edition where we don't have to put anything on the table if we don't want to.

 

So what does Azrael work best with? If he has the advantage of bike/termie troops, I'm thinking of putting him in a pod, but with what?

 

- Command squad? (which banner do you guys think best with such a list?)

- Vets? (try to get some fast firepower running)

 

Also I'm thinking of putting him in with a vanilla Librarian, or even Ezekiel but I have to be leary of getting to costly with HQ's considering a lot of my list is going to be expensive troops.

 

Any thoughts?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

A 2nd HQ depends on how many points you play. I would go for vets simply because you can have more than 5! I think 7th is a good edition for azrael+vets+pod.

[Ultra Magnus]

I would second the good Chaplain's advice above.

 

I recommend taking Azrael in a drop pod with a max size unit of veterans. Why? because the benefits Azrael provides scales with unit size. Drop them on an objective and he provides 10 bodies with a 4++ invulnerable save and FNP through his warlord trait, turning a typically over costed unit into a very dangerous and very tough opponent in both shooting and melee. You can drop them aggressively, discharging your preferred selection of combi-weapons to clear the objective of opposition or destroy a nearby vehicular threat. In a dakka banner list, you could ideally position it within range on the next turn and now they can potentially put out 40 shots for serious zone control and make charging them a dangerous proposition via overwatch.

 

As to why not the command squad, I would say because the FNP is wasted on him, there are fewer ablative wounds, and you don't get as much mileage out of his 4++ aura. Also if you are using a standard, you don't want to create an even bigger bullet magnet by concentrating all your toys in one unit. Spread them out and make your opponent have to choose and divide his fire. Either your warlord or the banner should live a little longer as a result.

[Shubniggurath]

Azrael with vets and Ezekiel (so that he would have Azzy's 4++ save!) is quite a nice but expensive combo.

[SvenONE]

Yeah I'm a HUGE fan of Azrael + 9 Vets in a Drop Pod.  That's recently been a core in my list for the last few weeks.  I start entirely with bolt pistols and chainswords and go from there, as much wargear as I'm willing to spend around the army.  I favor power swords but have tried power fists and power axes (so you can still retain + 1A for Pistols), but if you choose the Furious Charge Warlord DA Trait it's even better.

 

I've really liked it but want to try putting them in a DW LRC along with a command squad with a banner (of some kind, even Retribution might work), which would get me a full 10 models as well.  The first few times out I did so-so with the drop pod, he and the squad ended up being the #1 target and ate far too many wounds as I'd like.  Even with the reduced numbers his squad took on Khârn and 10 Khorne Bezerskers and did pretty well (lost ultimately due to numbers).  So finding ways to delay that squad getting shot is ideal!

 

I think the 7th edition opens up options for the FNP warlord trait also.  A DW terminator squad (any configuration) with a 2+,4++, 5+ FNP sounds yummy :)

[Prot]

I tried a few Az-deathcore list configurations but nothing was working for me.

 

I play 1850 and even at that I found Az+vanilla Libby + Command squad + banner + Pod = ridiculously overpriced. lol

 

At that point value I found I didn't have enough points to sincerely drop in enough termies/bikes. So I came back here to see if you guys came up with anything and it looks like Vets are the winner.....

 

I kind of want to mix it up with the new psychic phase so I'm tempted to do Biomancy or Divination (Is Divination still a fairly unique thing to us?) 

 

What are you guys putting on the Vets? Are they pretty vanilla?

 

Is it worth podding in a support Dreadnaught or leave the points for bikes/Termies?

[Darkangeldentist]

I love Azrael and generally field him with Ezekiel.

 

Because they are pretty impressive in combat I tend to have them lead a regular tactical squad. Full squad with vet wielding a powerfist and just a meltagun for the special weapon. They add so much clout and resilience to the unit they become good enough to deal with a lot of stuff out there.

 

Having them lead a tactical squad also saves points allowing for more to be spent elsewhere, be it Ravenwing, Deathwing, Dreadnoughts or other options. A squad of terminators bikes and tactical marines led by Azrael and Ezekiel will cost about 1000pts. This is assuming a 5 man squad of deathwing with assault cannon, min ravenwing with pair of meltaguns and multi-melta attack bike and a full squad of marines with meltagun and powerfist sergeant. Even if you are only playing a 1500pt game this set up leaves you enough points to add a few more specialised units/toys to bulk up your firepower and/or combat presence.

 

It is very much worth podding a Dreadnought, preferably venerable as it's not that expensive and can deliver a BS 5 multi-melta or heavy flamer right next to a vulnerable target first turn.

[Prot]

Some great advice, thanks guys.

 

I think the core of the list I'm thinking of comes to about 420 pts but as I put it together it kind of started to flow rather nicely.

 

It's not 100% competitive but it does have some fantastic early game scoring capabilities. The more I did this, the more it started looking like a full list so I posted it here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292053-1850-az-zeke-core-army-super-scoring-super-fast/

 

 

I'd appreciate some comments. I may have... too much fluff in the list. 

[SnakeChisler]

Like the DV model but could never find a role for him

 

Maybe a mixed list with Ultramarines would work, I don't really do allies but

 

Tigarius Centurions Sternguard for the veteran role a large bike contingent as Azreals troops Storm Raven for the death wing knights

 

Pass the Camembert

[Caldria]

You could even have Azzy with allied ultras. Take Tigurius with azzy in the land raider with a deathwing squad, or max veterans geared for combat primarily. Tigurius rolls all on biomancy, you have a strong chance in getting endurance. The whole unit now has 4+FnP and Azzy finally has Eternal Warrior - Tigurius, with all his rerolls stands the best chance of getting endurance. Then he could also go for Iron arm (to make his staff attacks S9 Ap2 at initiative).

I feel like its potentially a better combination than Ezekial. With Ezekial, he gives Azzy and the unit +1 WS - Azzy gives him the inv save. But with Tigurius, he gives Azrael and the unit so much more, and isnt reliant on Azrael. Also Azrael can then take the furious charge warlord trait instead of the FnP one.

Anyway, That's if you're interested in allies. But Azzy + Zeke is sill a really great combo. (but best used in a landraider imo, as they've already got a bit target on their backs - may as well shell out to give them the protection they need, and since they primarily wanna be in combat)

[Prot]

Honestly I'm probably more liable to go back to Ravenwing before allying with Ultra's. lol

 

So I've created the list linked in my previous post, I think thanks to the advice here I have a base to work off of.

 

However I do consider Black Knights potentially more usefll than Deathwing knights (since niether are super scoring).

 

Anyway, I'm either playing this list or my Chaos Malefic list tonight. (I don't know why but the Dark Angel list looks so much weaker to me.)

 

No it's not always about winning, but I"ll probably be up against orks or hardcore IG tonight.