Master of Sanctity

[Phoebus]

I'm four chapters into the novel so far, and it's looking good.

 

There are new revelations in the background of the Dark Angels, especially as relates to their rituals and secrets. There's even an unexpected twist in regards to membership in the Inner Circle - or, at any rate, I thought it was a twist.

 

Asmodai's talk with Sapphon in the opening chapters was... great! It was everything I expected from the former (who is not exactly my favorite character), but it was tempered by everything I hoped for the latter. Thus far, I'm impressed by Gav's take on Sapphon.

 

More to follow!

[Terrahawk]

I must admit I have equal amounts of excitiment and dread over this book. But glad to hear it's shaping out to be a solid book. Please keep us posted and maybe even share a spoiler or two!

[Varizel]

It was pretty good so far... i'm halfway through the book. First chapter i already saw errors though

 

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First Chapter, with the 5 men Deathwing that has the Stormshield/Thunderhammer loadout and assault cannon, rest Storm bolters. Sapphon was described using Bolt Pistol. But during a scene, it was noted that those guys pointed 4 Storm bolters. 1 too many Gav.

 

 

 

But the big one is I have some rant about the book about my particular company.

 

 

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Company Master for the 3rd Company is NOT an inner circle? huh? you for real Gav? Heck.... even Company Master description on my codex said it has to be a Deathwing at least. It even has the rule Inner Circle. Now you gonna tell me that some chump Veteran Sarge (Seraphiel) is an Inner Circle/Deathwing but my Company Master isn't?

 

 

/end of rant

 

I'd prob finish the book tomorrow, but so far it was quite interesting. There are some parts that i don't like,

 

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why do we have to keep bringing that f00 Astellan? Can we not just leave him rot or something. I think almost every story about modern DA always talk about him to some degree, sides the shorts for DA written by Graham Mc'Neill (Unforgiven). 

 

 

 

Sapphon however is pretty cool, at least up to half way the book. 

 

Edit: Finished the book..... i thought Ravenwing was better. But the ending... omg the ending.

 

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They caught Cypher

 

 

[Hexagon Sun]

  On 6/6/2014 at 9:35 AM, Terrahawk said:

I must admit I have equal amounts of excitiment and dread over this book. But glad to hear it's shaping out to be a solid book.

 

Very much this. I must resist the spoilers for another couple of weeks...

[Tanyr]

Finished it as well, overall, i don't wish i had the time spent reading the book refunded, so it was a worthy addition to the list of novels about the Unforgiven.

 

 

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Cypher didn't seem to be captured so much as showing up for the sole purpose of surrendering. That, plus Belial fighting off the Fallen's army on the planets surface, with the Terminus Est within system, and Telemenus' only good for slapping inside a dreadnought. Even if it's only part two of a trilogy, it seemed a bit much for a cliffhanger. The wait for part three is going to be more painful than the wait for Master of Sanctity, so objective achieved! How they'll resolve all of the current plotlines should make for an interesting read.

It was great to have the named characters from our codex appear within a novel. Sapphon and Asmodai feature heavily within the storyline, with Belial, Ezekiel and Sammael having significant numbers of appearances. Like Pandorax, the large cast of players seemed to bog down any considerable character development for them, but the fact that they're even featured within a novel in the first place made it worthwhile. Even if they had their own screen time, the original characters from Ravenwing seemed to end up as almost a footnote.

 

I'm not sure myself about Astelan. At times, his honor and duty to the emperor seems genuine, and at others, he's simply trying to manipulate the Dark Angels into giving him the opportunity to escape ( which i honestly cant fault him for, Asmodai is certainly...zealous in his duties ). At the very least, he shows that he's willing to say anything to gain an advantage, so perhaps someday people will stop believing the words of a Fallen traitor about what El'Jonson's intentions were!

I did truly enjoy Telemenus' training with terminator armor. The systems within power armor have been documented often enough, but terminator armor far less so, so to read about the additional functions of the suit, along with some insight into how it feels to use was a pleasant surprise.

 

And as with Ravenwing, the opportunity to see how the Dark Angels operate as a whole, despite having so many layers of secrecy fleshed out the chapter. Too often it feels as though the entire chapter is portrayed to be in on it, while only a small percentage of the members know whats going on. How a rank and file member feels when they pull out of a warzone without warning, abandoning their imperial allies. What goes through their minds when they, after already having been told they were lied to, are told "the truth we told you before, that was a lie, and there's another secret, but this is the last one...". Sacrificing their personal honor, and battle-brothers to hide the chapter's secret, and the rationalizing afterwards. We'll likely never know all of the Unforgiven's secrets, and i wouldnt want to, lest it ruin the appeal, but seeing more of the daily life of a DA was educational.

 

Overall, a worthy read. I did finish feeling as though it was lacking something, but as i said, its only part two, so that much is likely unavoidable.

 

[Azoriel]

My own thoughts:

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+1 on Cypher surrendering vs. being caught - the fact that he was handing himself over for the purposes of conveying information to the Inner Circle is far more interesting than any simple capture, IMO. I dunno about Telemenus becoming a dreadnought - he certainly isn't going to be good for much else, but, on the flipside, he hasn't really done anything worthy of receiving that kind of treatment either. Part of me is semi-worried for Sapphon not being able to teleport off of the Terminus Est (plotwise the most probable result of being 30 seconds overtime), but I'm suspecting he'll find a drop-pod or some other means of escape.

The characters from Ravenwing appear to be side characters in this story because that's precisely what they are - the main characters of the story are supposed to be Sapphon and (to a lesser extent) Asmodai. I enjoyed the constant conflict between the two (showing that not all Interrogator-Chaplains are cut from the same cloth), as well as the portrayal of a less-than-unanimous Inner Circle, which votes on issues as opposed to Azrael simply dictating his wishes to everyone (as one might imagine his office would allow).

In regards to Astelan, the fact that he attempted to escape to the Terminus Est (and join up with a known plague marine force) speaks volumes as to his true intentions. In addition to that, Annael's flashbacks to Astelan's Nazi-esque concentration camps on Tharsis, horrifying even to an Astartes, and Cypher's decision to execute him at the end pretty much confirm that he was never deserving of any sympathy. On an unrelated note, I found it amusing Astelan assumed the identity of his 30K nemesis, "Belath", when forced to provide a false name.

[Tanyr]

 

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I don't believe that Sapphon went to the Terminus Est, i read it as he was on board the Heavy cruiser that Anovel was using as a flagship. Typhus and the Terminus Est kept a "wait and see" approach, waiting until Anovel proved his ability to capture the capital on his own before commiting his own forces to the attack. As for where Astelan was trying to escape to, I think it was the heavy cruiser as well.

 

[Lucien Eilam]

  On 6/6/2014 at 5:56 PM, Varizel said:

But the big one is I have some rant about the book about my particular company.

 

The codex states that the majority of Company Masters are not members of the Inner Circle:

 

 

 

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Members of the Inner Circle include the Chapter’s Librarians, the Interrogator-Chaplains, and a small number of Company Masters, including the leaders of the 1st and 2nd Companies.

 

Table-top rules are rarely the complete picture. Codex Dark Angels is themed entirely around the hunt for the Fallen, so it makes sense that the Company Master it presents is one who is a member of the Inner Circle.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Its daft to not have Company Master's as members of the Inner Circle...who better to take the appropriate course of action? 

 

For those who have the book, are then any added names, for example the Master of the Third?

[Azoriel]

Sorry, forgot the spoiler tags (though I doubt much of anything is being spoiled from these quotes):

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‘My opinion is irrelevant?’ Issachar said the words slowly, as though he was only just catching up with events. ‘I am commander of the Third Company, tasked with securing these palaces. Brother, you overstep your remit if you think you can remove one of my allies from his duties.’

'Do not take false umbrage at my curt manner, Master Issachar,’ answered Asmodai, irritated by the captain’s defiant tone. ‘Our orders are direct from the Supreme Grand Master. I am well within my authority to have Colonel Brade removed from power and to subject him to questioning. The palace grounds have been secured for several days. I do not understand your tardiness in prosecuting further attacks against the rebels and greenskins.’
There was a buzz as the command channel activated. Issachar strode across the hall to confront Asmodai, his manner making his intent clear even though his words were for the Chaplain alone.
‘Do not seek to teach me my duty, Asmodai.’ Issachar growled, amplified by the vox-net to sound like an attacking cudbear.
‘This is no matter for a simple Company Master,’ said Asmodai, seeking to make sense of Issachar’s objections. ‘While I bow to your judgement on purely military decisions, the acts of Colonel Brade and his men are treasonous, and that is a poison that can infect the minds of others, making it my responsibility. The Piscinan Free Militia are a tarnished, spent force of no strategic value. I do not understand your concerns.’

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“Have Colonel Brade join me in the Imperial commander’s chambers, please,’ (Sapphon) told Issachar. Even though ranked a Company Master, Issachar was not a member of the Inner Circle. There was no need to have him involved in anything more than he already was. ‘I should make peace.”

Conversely, however, Gav Thorpe has historically viewed the term Inner Circle as being more inclusive than Deathwing; though the current codex says every member of the Deathwing is in the Inner Circle, it was previously established that the Inner Circle was only those in the higher most tiers of leadership. It could be that Mr. Thorpe is using the term Inner Circle in the latter sense. Elsewise, we've got a lot of VERY exceptional Company Masters who completely bypass membership in the 1st Company prior to making master.

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And all those terminators get a vote when the Inner Circle makes big decisions (whereas the company masters do not).

[Azoriel]

In regards to the ships involved in the latter portions of the book, it would seem I need to read more carefully:

 

 

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'I could not tell,’ said Sapphon. ‘It matters not for the moment. I do not think it is yet time to spring the trap. Anovel’s flagship has not fully committed yet.’
‘If we allow them any closer they will be able to start landing troops,’ Sammael replied. ‘It seems they intend to assault Tharsis.”
'Let them,’ said Sapphon. ‘They will be greeted by Belial and his Deathwing, not to mention a fully mobilised planetary defence force.’
‘There is also the matter of the battle-barge, brother. I do not recognise the pattern but it is enormous, and comms tell me that it is issuing ancient Death Guard identifiers. After events at Thyestes and Ulthor we must expect it to be carrying a full complement of several companies. If they deploy, the First Company will need support.'

'The moment we reveal ourselves our last advantage is spent,’ said Sapphon. ‘We cannot risk alerting Anovel to our presence. It will take at least thirty minutes for forces to make planetfall once orbit had been gained. I suggest we slowly bring up reactors to nominal threshold and stand-by in readiness.’
‘To what end? If we strike now we can still catch the heavy cruiser as it tries to make orbit.’
‘And what when we have to board the traitor’s flagship with its full complement? Better to let them begin to attack and deplete their defence before they understand the true threat.'

 

So the "heavy cruiser" they boarded (the flagship) was indeed Annovel's ship, not the Terminus Est (which is identified as a battle barge).  This bodes much better for Sapphon (who will only need to get through hordes of augmented humans as opposed to Heresy Era Astartes).  It still doesn't speak well of Astelan, though, who now knows for a fact that Annovel is in bed with the Death Guard (presuming he didn't already before) yet is still trying to join up with him anyway.

 

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I think we can reconcile the CM dilemma through accepting that, based on most fluff sources, they were, once DW and presumably are members of the Inner Circle. However, not all will be included in the inner, inner circle where the big leagues move.

 

Although for practical reasons, it makes sense that all CM's know, and it sounds like Gav just wanted to create pointless tension within the Chapter again

[Phoebus]

So I got done reading Master of Sanctity a few hours ago. It took me a little longer than I would have liked to finish it, but two boys (one 13 months old, the other less than a month!) will make that a difficult prospect.

Personally, I thought this novel was a good, fun read overall. I thought it was chock-full with the sort of detail that fans of the Dark Angels will enjoy (more on that later). I thought it was better than Ravenwing, and miles and miles above The Purging of Kadillus. In fact, I'd say the only thing Angels of Darkness has on it is the sheer shock factor that came with Astelan's accusations.

Probably the strongest point of the novel is the interactions between the characters. We don't get enough of Belial's point of view, which is a shame, but Gav did a very good job with Sapphon and Asmodai. I was a huge critic of Asmodai's Index Astartes article, as well as the way he's shown in the Codex. While Gav didn't shy away from making Asmodai seem every bit as fanatical in this story, he just did a fine job of showing his rage in context and voicing his beliefs and why he is the way he is. I tip my hat to Gav for that.

Is Master of Sanctity perfect? No. I think it starts off very strong, gets lost a bit near the middle (though in a very fun way!), feels a little forced near the end, but recovers with a pretty shocking cliffhanger (those of you who have clicked on earlier spoilers know what I mean). But here's the thing. Remember how Ferocious Beast spoke earlier about Gav-bashing? While I'm sure folks with a keen eye for all things Dark Angels and Warhammer 40k will spot a few things they won't like, I don't think anyone can walk away from this novel worrying about Gav Thorpe not being the right man to write about the Unforgiven.

A quick side-note:

One of the things a reader has to be prepared for when reading Master of Sanctity is that Gav paints a different picture of 40k. Some people refer to Abnett's take on 40k as "The Abnettverse", or "The Danverse". Those who read Ravenwing should probably know by now that Gav has a different take on Warhammer 40k. He is more of the Old School. His Space Marines are not familiar with the Traitor Legions, with Chaos, with Daemons, with the Warp, etc. It's kind of a hurdle to get over.

Moving on.

I don't really want to spoil any of the storyline. There are a couple of things I want to share regarding the plot in subsequent posts, just to see if others felt the same way. Those will be specially marked. The spoilers in this post, however, are simply things that I think people on this forum might appreciate - in terms of Warhammer 40k and Dark Angels-related background.

Regarding knowledge of the Fallen:

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“Now you must learn of the shame we all share, for the Dark Angels were not immune to the thrice-cursed traitor’s entreaties. Fair Caliban, the birthplace of the Lion, home world of the Legion, was destroyed not by Horus, but by Dark Angels corrupted by their own ambition, who used forbidden warp-tech in an attempt to overthrow the rightful rule of the Lion.”

...

“The Space Marines we hunt as Ravenwing were once Dark Angels. Their existence has been kept secret for ten thousand years and they are the greatest threat to the Chapter and all who share the gene-seed of the Lion. We call them the Fallen and until the last has been hunted down and brought to account for their sins, there can be no rest.”

First off, this is knowledge that is shared with those who have been chosen to become Black Knights within the Ravenwing. While older lore held that the Ravenwing didn't know about the Fallen, this actually makes a lot of sense. You would want to have a cadre within the Second Company capable of facing down the Fallen, just as Angels of Darkness, Dark Vengeance, and Ravenwing show us that Battle (and probably Reserve) Companies and other formations have agents of the Inner Circle within their ranks for just that purpose. So, shall we start a petition for the Black Knights to get the Inner Circle rule in their stat line?

Second of all, while "forbidden warp tech" could just be a lie to explain away Caliban's destruction without revealing the whole story, who here is willing to automatically write off the possibility that this refers to the sentient warp engine that the Lion recovered in the novella written by Gav Thorpe?

Regarding Dark Angels indoctrination... Oh, man, did this one raise my eyebrows! Gav really went grimdark with this, in my opinion!

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“Every brother of the Chapter knew hate. It was poured into them by the Chaplains during their time amongst the aspirants and Scouts, reinforced with elegy, eulogy, catechism and battle-prayer. Asmodai had unleashed the hate countless times with a specific word, a canticle or phrase implanted through day after day of psycho-indoctrinal therapies. As a Chaplain he knew the hundred and one holy words that triggered that implanted hatred.”

But it gets better!

“Death to the xenos! Attack!’ Sapphon charged to draw its attention. The Terminators around him responded in an instant, his battle cry delving deep into hypno-conditioned minds to override whatever they had been planning to do.”

And... wait for it...

“Sapphon bit back a word of command. If needed he could say the words that would make Belial compliant, for a time at least. Grand Master or not, he had been subjected to the same procedures and hypnotherapies as every other Dark Angel; it was this secret knowledge with which Sapphon had been entrusted.

But it was no way to conduct command of an ongoing situation. Belial’s loyalty and dedication were not in question and awkward inquiries would arise if Sapphon used the secret words in such a manner.”

I'm really curious to hear what you all have to say about that!

Regarding the Inner Circle:

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“Sammael glared back, eyes narrowed. ‘Do not think reputation and rank greater than mine, Asmodai. Lower your weapon, Brother-Chaplain.’

With reluctance, Asmodai dropped the bolt pistol to his side. He glared at Sammael and returned his gaze to Harahel, who had been whispering throughout the exchange.”

A nice little indication of seniority within the Chapter. Emphasis mine. Also...

“Sapphon did not want to invoke his rank as Master of Sanctity – spiritual master even of Belial – but he felt he might have to."

And finally... ever wonder what happens when you fail the Inner Circle? Sapphon certainly gives us an idea:

“They would return to the Rock and Sapphon would face dishonour. No penance for the Chaplain, no humiliation in front of the Chapter. Such matters had to be dealt with in circumspect manner. The Inner Circle would let its displeasure be known only amongst themselves. To the rest of the Dark Angels, it would seem that Sapphon was Master of Sanctity, spiritual leader. To Sapphon it would be the silent judgement, a tacit sentence of death. Every drop assault, every forlorn hope, every last-ditch defence and terminus mission he would be expected to lead from the front until Sapphon had offered the only reparation left to him: his death.”

Emphasis mine.

I'll offer some more stuff tomorrow. Before I log off, though, I wanted to share a couple of interesting things about modeling possibilities. A few times, topics have raised the complaint that certain characters who are members of the Inner Circle don't wear Tactical Dreadnought Armour. Guess who shows up in Terminator armour in this novel?

Asmodai. He fights with a combi-plasma to back up his crozius.

And Sapphon. No weapon is mentioned other than his crozius.

No Terminator love for Ezekiel... but he was not involved in any battles to begin with. And it should be noted that both Asmodai and Sapphon wear power armour at other parts of the novel.

Oh, and something else. Clearly, the Dark Angels didn't get the memo about pulling lances off of their strike cruisers. Yes!

[Sevatar]

Awesome. Any spoilers on the story line? Thanks.

[Phoebus]

Master of Sanctity picks up directly after the ending of Ravenwing. If you haven't read that novel, STOP HERE

Ravenwing ended with the capture of Methelas, who, along with Anovel, was a companion of Astelan's - from Angels of Darkness. The Inner Circle hopes to break Methelas and gain the knowledge they need to capture Cypher. At its heart, Master of Sanctity is about that effort, and the two Dark Angels leading it: Sapphon and Asmodai. It's also about the conflict between those two men; they both desire the same thing, but their very different mindsets and methods put them constantly at odds.

Asmodai is a zealot and a fanatic, an individual who knows no doubt whatsoever about his calling and his duty. His hatred of the Fallen is absolute. He is quite incapable with identifying with other points of view. Empathy is an alien concept to him. Sapphon, on the other hand, was chosen specifically because he's a bit of a "rebel" - an unconventional thinker, if you will.

There is also a sub-plot that continues from Ravenwing. Methelas's capture led to the promotion of Telemenus, Menthius, and Daellon to the Deathwing, and of Annael and Sabrael to the Black Knights of the Ravenwing. We see their adventure continue, as well.

Warning. The spoiler below is fairly comprehensive. Read at your own peril - there won't be any surprises about the plot after you go through this. I don't touch on the cool conversations, arguments, or most of the action... but it really does take a lot from the enjoyment of the book. If you don't want the main plotline spoiled, by all means: ask me specific questions instead, and I'll answer them here.

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When the story starts, the Dark Angels are on Piscina IV. Again. It seems to me that they will never be able to clean up that planet. When I mentioned earlier that Gav has kind of his own take about Space Marines, I was partly referencing this. It's a bit disappointing that the entire Chapter is seemingly needed to get this done. The fact that the line Space Marines need the Deathwing to clear out minor ork strongholds within Kadillus Harbor is just kind of underwhelming. Happily, the interactions between Sapphon and Asmodai are the real attraction at this stage.

Later, it is shown that the Dark Angels have had little luck breaking Methelas. His conversion to Nurgle has inured him to pain and suffering, and the "arts" of the Interrogator Chaplains aren't of much help.

Changing tack, Sapphon and Asmodai shift their attentions to Astelan - who has now been a prisoner for fifteen years. They tell Astelan they know he lied about destroying Port Imperial, and reveal to him how his companion Methelas has sworn his soul to Nurgle. Astelan is outraged by this, and claims that he never betrayed the Emperor's ideals and would never take the cause of the Ruinous Powers. Apparently, the idea behind was that he, Methelas, and Anovel would create a new Chapter of Space Marines, with which he would continue the Great Crusade. Everything he did on Tharsis - the wars, the sacred bands, etc. - was to create suitable recruits. Methelas was formerly a Librarian, and was going to secure for them warships via Port Imperial. Anovel was an Apothecary, and he was tasked with getting them geneseed (which he eventually captured at Piscina IV). Sapphon challenges him to prove this by turning on Methelas and gaining them the information needed to find Anovel. Asmodai is obviously not happy about this.

Astelan ends up being a cunning individual, and turns the tables on his captors. He says to Asmodai and Sapphon that he has the information they need, but points out that revealing all he knows is tantamount to him signing his own death sentence. He essentially begins playing a dangerous game wherein he's buying a stay of execution by giving the Dark Angels enough to get them to the next step of their Hunt. The more this goes on, the more Asmodai becomes infuriated and set against Sapphon.

Astelan offers up the planet Ulthor as the place where Methelas believes Anovel can be found. He gets Sapphon to bring him along (meaning, leave the Rock while still in the custody of the Deathwing), and claims he can provide them with the codes/passwords/etc. to get past Anovel's defenses. The Inner Circle has to vote on it, and Sapphon's plan passes. Sapphon, Asmodai, Ezekiel, Belial, Sammael, and Malcifer head the expedition, with just the Ravenwing and the Deathwing (and two strike cruisers). The rest of the Chapter stays behind on Piscina, to mop up orks.

When the hunting force get to Ulthor, though, Sapphon is overruled and Astelan's suggested means of a covert approach is disregarded. Instead, the two Companies make an overt assault - on a Daemon World of Nurgle that exists within an overlap of the Eye of Terror. The Dark Angels fail to find Anovel, but they do find a monstrous living city that is the extension of some colossal daemon. They suffer nasty losses before they extract, and end up destroying the entire city from orbit.

Sapphon is desperate at this point. Failure means Asmodai will surely replace him, and he fears that his blind fanaticism will see the entire Chapter hunted down by the Inquisition. Astelan plays his trump card at this point. He draws a parallel with the hunters of the Great Beasts on old Caliban - that they used bait. He offers himself up as bait, and says they should go back to Tharsis, the planet Astelan once ruled. Sapphon narrowly gets the rest to agree (obviously with the exception of Asmodai).

The Dark Angels get to Tharsis, where Astelan - dressed up in power armour meant to look like his old wargear - sends an Astropathic message, which they hope Anovel will get. The intent is for Anovel to think that Astelan is still in command of Tharsis, and that he is ready to receive Anovel with recruits. This is understandably the most forced part of the novel, since it requires the reader to accept a lot of questionable premises: such as the idea that Anovel would not have found out in fifteen years that the Dark Angels reconquered Tharsis. Or that Port Imperial was subsequently destroyed. Or that Methelas was captured. Or that the Dark Angels subsequently destroyed their stronghold on Ulthor.

At any rate, Anovel does show up - at the head of a fleet. A much larger fleet than anyone expected. Astelan uses know-how that apparently modern Adeptus Astartes "don't possess anymore" and divines that the fleet formation is hiding... the Terminus Est. Typhus is never shown, though, and the naval battle (which is really mostly fought by the system's defense monitors) 's kind of an aftermath. Anovel leads an invasion of Tharsis, and the Deathwing and Ravenwing intervene only when he's too committed to escape. During the chaos, Astelan - you guessed it - escapes. The enemy fleet takes off, but not before Sapphon boards Anovel's ship and gains coordinates to which it was beaming some sort of transmission. Anovel is captured. The Black Knights go hunting for Astelan, who is found in the same place Anovel's ship was transmitting to: his old fortress. Astelan manages to get the drop on Annael, but is shot in the head at the last second by a mysterious figure... Lord Cypher. The rest of the Black Knights arrive at this point, and Cypher deliberately surrenders, stating he must speak with the Inner Circle.

[Augustus]

It was better than Ravenwing. Sapphon has some cool lined and juxtaposes nicely with Asmodai. But I can't shake the feeling that Gav portrays the DA as little better than Keystone Cops

[FerociousBeast]

Just finished the book yesterday afternoon (when I was supposed to be working, don't tell my boss!) and have a few thoughts. I'll start with what I didn't like, because I'm a negative nancy, but overall I really enjoyed this book and highly recommend it. It's much better than Gav's other Dark Angel novels, and I include Angels of Darkness in that summation. I agree with Phoebus that with this novel, we can finally hope for an end to all the Gav-bashing.

 

My biggest problem with the book is that there's just way too much introspection and navel gazing. Sapphon, Annael, and Telemenus come across as insecure, unsure, and a little sad. Not traits I normally associate with genetically modified, hypnodoctrinated, psychopathic killing machines whose idea of worship is blasting apart xenos, heretics, and traitors.

 

However, that's actually my beef with all of the Black Library writers, and to be fair I imagine it would be very challenging to write a novel from the perspective of a Space Marine. Speaking as a writer myself, it's hard not to write yourself into each of your characters, and if you don't happen to be a genetically modified, hypnodoctrinated, psychopathic killing machine, I can imagine it's a challenge to get inside one's head.

 

So that's my biggest issue, but I'm willing to overlook it because ALL BL writers do it. Other than that, my other main qualms are:

1) The prose is just okay, there are better writers in the BL stable

2) The narrative is uneven in that Gav lingers on certain scenes and does them justice while other scenes really needed more exposition

3) Relatedly, the book needs to be longer to do justice to some of the scenes

4) It's pretty predictable in that

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you know that Sapphon will ultimately prove right in trusting Astelan... Gav never throws any monkey wrenches into the works. Astelan running away at the end doesn't count because Asmodai has just said he's going to kill him.

 

 

So those are my issues. I wrote a lot there, big block of text, but the novel's really not too bad in the balance! I'll write up what I like about the book in a separate post as this one is dragging on.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

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My biggest problem with the book is that there's just way too much introspection and navel gazing. Sapphon, Annael, and Telemenus come across as insecure, unsure, and a little sad. Not traits I normally associate with genetically modified, hypnodoctrinated, psychopathic killing machines whose idea of worship is blasting apart xenos, heretics, and traitors.

 

Some authors tend to use this kind of gimmicks as to convey more personality and humanity to  SM characters.. I think it's an attempt to stray away from the previsible hero that is super in every aspect. But the problem is that this should be used in moderation, like salt.. too much and it will ruin a nice dish.

[Phoebus]

I agree that Sapphon seemed a bit too much harried for a Space Marine, but I was able to overcome that given the situation he was in:

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That is, he wasn't so much worried about leading every forlorn hope until he died as much as the irreparable damage Asmodai could cause in his position.

 

 

And that's valid, I think.

 

Where Telemenus is concerned....  Well, I'm going to be honest.  I didn't care so much about his demeanor as I did about him and ...

 

 

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... his two fellow inductees being cleared to participate in critical Deathwing operations after a mere 40 days of training.

 

 

There's just no indication that they were THAT needed by Belial.

 

My biggest "real" complaint, however, is just the fact that the third part of the book feels forced.  Ferocious Beast's item #4 is a large part of that.  I don't think that Sapphon every truly ...

 

 

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... trusts Astelan, per se, but the lengths to which he's willing to go to catch Anovel are a little unrealistic, I think.

 

[Prot]

  On 6/6/2014 at 8:50 AM, Phoebus said:

I'm four chapters into the novel so far, and it's looking good.

 

There are new revelations in the background of the Dark Angels, especially as relates to their rituals and secrets. There's even an unexpected twist in regards to membership in the Inner Circle - or, at any rate, I thought it was a twist.

 

Asmodai's talk with Sapphon in the opening chapters was... great! It was everything I expected from the former (who is not exactly my favorite character), but it was tempered by everything I hoped for the latter. Thus far, I'm impressed by Gav's take on Sapphon.

 

More to follow!

 

So this is worth buying then?

 

I never finished Ravenwing... kinda got bored, but if this is the second part, I'll chug through it and give this a try.

[FerociousBeast]

OK, I meant to get to this a long time ago, but haven't, and the story is rapidly draining from my all too porous memory, so I'm going to briefly recap what (I remember of what) I like about this story. There are a couple very minor spoilers, but they don't give anything away of the plot. I've spoiler tagged it, but I'm not giving away anything terribly surprising, except I guess maybe the last one. Which is separately spoilered.

 

In no particular order.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- The Land Raider charge at the end was somehow really exciting. Gav really nailed it. Without going back and studying it, I can't say what it was about it that felt so good, but it was just a really solid scene. Memorable. Had a feeling of weight and momentum that writers of Space Marine stories often really get wrong, I guess in the interests of making Space Marines agile kung fu masters.

- Every scene w/ Sapphon and Asmodai, particularly the first. Great interactions between those two characters. And I've often said the interactions between opposing characters was the best thing about Angels of Darkness, as well, though Master of Sanctity shows Gav w/ improved control of his craft. The only problem with these interactions is that, as entertaining as they often are, they are predictable. You know as soon as Astelan asks for power armor that Asmodai is going to oppose it and Sapphon is going to approve it, for example.

- As someone else mentioned, this is the first time that fighting in Terminator armor has been so fully fleshed out. The novel is worth reading for anyone interested in Space Marines for this reason alone, whether they like the Unforgiven or not.

- The Daemon City is pretty imaginative and well described. (Conversely, the sequence in the last planet, Tardis I think?, is not nearly so well described, though ironically much more prosaic.)

- Ezekiel is a great character in this book, despite and because of the fact that he does next to nothing.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- Fallen 101 makes a great appearance. He's definitely not captured, as others above have said. Makes me really look forward to Unforgiven next year. Also, Astelan, dollars to donuts, is not dead. The last line describing his state is very obviously inconclusive. My bet is that he's still alive next novel, and his head injury unlocks those psychic walls Ezekiel mentioned earlier in the book.

 

 

 

That's all I can think of at the moment. Overall a really solid entry in BL's 40k lineup, and one of if not the the best Dark Angel novels I've read.

[Lucien Eilam]

 

 

  Quote

this is the first time that fighting in Terminator armor has been so fully fleshed out

 

It's good, but I wouldn't say it's the first time. Death of Integrity had a lot more of this stuff.

[Cpt_Reaper]

So I finally got my hands on Master of Sanctity. I haven't finished it yet but I feel uber compelled to give a review so far, and why this book strengthened my love of the First Legion.

 

As many of you are aware, MoS drops right into the action, picking up where Ravenwing left off. The surviving main characters have been promoted and are training in their new roles. That, however, is not the focal point of my little write up. I shall just summarize as otherwise I'd write too much. I will focus on the two Chaplains of the story.

 

- Asmodai: Ok...the codex showed him to be a bit of a jerk. He does all the Chaplain-y things like monitor for corruption and stuff, but forgets to be the "big brother" role. Fraternity is in his eyes, a waste of effort. This is overlooked because he puts the Interrogator back into Interrogator-Chaplain...and we see why. He literally blacks out while he is...um...interrogating. For 5 hours. I'm not even sure he wants them to give in, he just goes to town. As far as genetically-enhanced man-children go, Asmodai scares the hell out of me.

 

- Sapphon: The Grand Master of Chaplains is what Asmodai isn't. He cares for his brethren, thinks highly of fraternity and is more of a calm leader but at the same time isn't "the best" interrogator because he prefers a more subtle approach to Asmodai's "punch it until it dies or talks."

 

Where the two truly differ is not the means to their end goals but the end goals when dealing with Fallen. Asmodai would rather kill a Fallen outright than try to extract information which in his mind can only be lies and nothing else. Sapphon on the other hand would rather try to coerce his captive into giving up the other Fallen so as to save time and make use of all resources. The way the two characters work, being the exact opposite to each other is just beautiful.

Did I mention Asmodai scares me...more than anything I have read about Dark Eldar.

[Cyfax]

Well I just finished Master of Sanctity and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it, and can definitely recommend it to others considering getting/reading it.

Development of the characters from the previous book was good but mainly getting a more in depth look into the unknown Sapphon and giving Asmodai some more depth was great. I know I'll be converting a Sapphon in the near future (and here's to hoping that this novel also offers the possibility of a dataslate for him in the future, instead of the character being forgotten).

I also really enjoy the 'deeper' themes of the novels so far (incl. Angels of Darkness) and I'm interested to see where the 'Fallen Storyline' will go. As in, will the Hunt never end or will we get a glimpse of what happens to the DA after the Hunt? (which I felt is one of these 'deeper' themes)

All in all a very enjoyable read as DA fan

[Tanyr]

I hope the Hunt never ends. As much as it seems to shoehorn us into  certain stories, the fact that it allows us to have those stories in the first place makes it worth keeping. Other chapters have trivia, snippets, articles, etc...we have history. The Hunt has given the Unforgiven a depth that the overwhelming majority of the other chapters lack. While we don't always have the authors commonly deemed "the best" to do our novels, I've not read any that pushed me further from the Dark Angels, only dragged me further in. 

 

The world of 40k is grimdark. Nothing new there, but our hunt lets us seamlessly mesh with that universe. Take it away, and while we might become more acceptable to fans who want "heroes", we would risk losing what it is we already have.