Heresy!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So I got to thinking last night as I was trying to sleep that we have kind of missed a trick in relation to the Great Crusade and Heresy. Whether wrong or right, trying to flesh out the missing Legions has always been a bit of a no-no for most of the Frater but we have the capacity to create forces within the Legions already.

 

The conundrum, and for which I want to drum up some support from the Liber, is how would you then format an article based on a Chapter when it wouldn't really fit within the existing framework we know and love/hate for Index Astartes articles.

 

Answers on a post to... here.

[Conn Eremon]

I have a feeling that it is because I have gotten very little sleep and already worked about sixty hours or so this week, but I am not sure I understand what it is you are actually asking.

 

Mind clarifying?

[Olis]

Hmm. How about a 'How' 'Who' 'Where' and 'Why' style format?

[Gripharius]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is you are asking, either.

 

At the risk of derailing the thread, though, I seem to recall reading somewhere that part of GW's reasoning for originally making the two "missing" Legions as unknown entities was so that people could play their own homemade Space Marine armies.

 

I could be hallucinating, however.  That's entirely possible.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Clarification:

 

An Index Astartes-type article but rather than a 40k Chapter it would be a Chapter/Great Company/So on from within one of the Legions at the time of the Great Crusade or Heresy.

 

Olisredan, my thoughts ran along the lines of:

 

History (notable actions and battles in this case), Combat Doctrine, Battle Cry - which are all standard to the IA format - and possibly something about how their position within their own Legion; are they favoured/outcast/so on.

[Lysimachus]

I think there are a couple of good examples to be found in the IH Forum from Fraters who have jumped from 40 to 30k (if memory serves, Iron Hands Fanatic and Urza have both created cool threads to expand on their DIY Clans).

 

Obviously, these articles tend to be more unit/individual focussed and battle history based as the basic background and overall attitude/nature of the Legion is already defined. Which is interesting, as it makes the article go in almost the opposite direction of what is generally thought to make a good IA.

[Conn Eremon]

Ah, I gotcha. That's certainly something I'm interested in doing, for projects or those DIYs of mine that have memories stretching back into the days of the Legions.

 

It's my opinion that you would be best served to ditch the Index Astartes lay-out and adopt the Forge World Horus Heresy's Legion article format. The reason being that the Index Astartes lay-out is more about setting up the lore of a Chapter that has gone through multiple changes (Legions to Chapters), and has no set, specific point in time as a focus (they, in general, exist all the up to the current time). It's about providing general lore. 

 

Forge World makes stuff more specifically focused. Their articles, whether in Imperial Armour or Horus Heresy books, focus on particular events, and how the Chapter/Legion is involved with that event. And I think that's why they haven't become all that popular as formats for DIY Chapters, as we Liberites tend to want what the Index Astartes format provides more. Plus, they've been around much longer and there is a great amount of examples people can use for free.

 

But I think it works most brilliantly with the Legions. Unlike 40k Chapters, with the 30k Legions, what is most important is that particular leader, the Primarch, and that particular time, the Heresy. While the rest is integral, it is overshadowed by those two things far more than anything the 40k Chapters might experience. The same logic would apply to articles about particular groups within the Legions.

 

For those who might not have any of the Forge World's Horus Heresy books, I'll give a rundown of that format, with a little extra on how I think it could apply to specific aspects of a Legion as well. For the purpose of the explanation, I will assume it is a Legion company.

 

 

First, a box with:

Numeration - Normally the Legion's numeral, but could also be the "official" classification of the company, ex.  "219th Company"

 

Primogenitor - Normally the Primarch, but could also be the Legion itself, since it's not up in the Numeration.

 

Cognomen (Prior) - Typically, it's whatever the Legion might have been known as, officially or not, other than their true Legion name. This could be where the Company's name, official or not, is given. Example could be a White Scars' Brotherhood, whose Company classification, seen in the Numeration bit, is only the Terran classification that bears no weight or import with the Legion itself.

 

Observed Strategic Tendencies - Basically Combat Doctrine, but listed using military terminology instead of described (and in my opinion sells it much better because of that). For Companies, it might seem redundant, but you could list where the Company excels, focuses, or where it is the exception of the rule.

 

Noteworthy Domains - The Legion's domains, which is more than just recruitment centers. Worlds (or otherwise) that the Legion literally owns. For the Company, perhaps it lists which of these domains (or aspects thereof) that they specifically hail from. Like the Imperial Fists, World Eaters, and others, who recruit from multiple worlds, can have articles about specific companies list which of these worlds provided the Company with Marines.

 

Allegiance - Self-explanatory

 

Insert nifty Company-specific quote here

 

(NOTE: From this point on, each 'section' is given a title unique to the Legion, rather than having something more unified like the Index Astartes "Beliefs, Combat Doctrine, etc." sections. Whatever I label them as is just my attempt of summing the general intent, which is the same regardless of the Legion-specific title)

 

Origins - Describes the Legion's creation and earliest, Terran/Sol-based actions. Provides a glimpse into their character before their Primarch is discovered and changes everything. If the Company is Terran in origin, this might be more beefy than those articles where the Company is not.

 

Home World Sidebar - Shows an image and classification information of the Legion home world (if any). This could relate to the Company domains from above, either a different world than the Primarch's home world or a closer look at that home world as it pertains to the Company.

 

Primarch Sidebar - Details the life history of the Primarch before found by the Imperium.  For the Company, perhaps it could describe the Home World sidebar a bit more eloquently, or discuss that one particular Captain's origins.

 

United Legions of Togetherness - Yep, failed at a title there, but this is the Legion under the Primarch's guidance. If a Terran Company, this might show some changes occur, otherwise this might be where the Company's origins really pick up. Some Great Crusade events are described.

 

Unit Organisation and Structure within the Legion - This section always gets that title. Self-explanatory, describes both Terran and Primarch Legion's structure. Has two internal sections specific to Legion Command Hierarchy and War Disposition, the latter of which is specific to the over-all article's primary "conclusive" event, such as Legion numbers prior to and post Isstvan III or V, as the current Horus Heresy books by Forge World are. Again, could easily apply to a Legion Company, and has a chance of describing specific individuals because of the tighter focus.

 

Case Studies - Various images of Legionaries, with some lore about them (could tie in to the Legion Command Hierarchy when Company-specific), with one Terran Legion image, and other units like armour or . . . air force? units.

 

Exemplary Battles - Another self-explanatory one. Numbers may vary, but usually has at least one Terran and one Primarch battle.

 

Various Sidebars - These pepper the article, describing unique unit types, certain domains, random trivia, Legion markings, etc.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Cormac, that is some awesome stuff that I have absolutely no access to and I thank you profusely - I am sending imaginary cookies to California as I type!

 

That gives me plenty to work from and build my ideas upon!

 

SCL, thanks for the info - I'll see if I can hunt out their work and take a look.

[Conn Eremon]

I'm glad I could help. Like I said, this is actually something I've been interested in doing. I'm going to see tonight if this thread will galvanize me to do up one for my Eyes of Tivan, the only DIY of mine currently on the Liber that has roots in a Legion. I have been meaning to get some practice on this kind of format before trying my hand at doing a full-blown Legion article for a certain project I've been meaning to get back into.

 

P.S. Thanks for the cookies. ;)

[Conn Eremon]

I went through my Horus Heresy books a bit more thoroughly and jotted down some super bare bones frameworks for how the articles are set up.

 

I'll put them in spoilers below. The images have the different sections as they are labeled for each article, and following that is a pretty brief description of each one. I didn't want to get in trouble for posting too much, so I tried to be as vague as possible while still being useful. Used in conjunction with what I already posted above should be enough for those without access to the books, I hope. What I intend to do is mimic the article structure of the specific Legion that the Company hails from, so my Eyes of Tivan will mimic the World Eaters article format.

 

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/cdPPOnz.jpg

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/q1q5FpQ.jpg

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/mn99zuY.jpg

 

 

FW HH Format

 

 

Sons of Horus:

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains & Allegiance. No quote.

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Home World, w/ subcategories depicting world’s history, current status, and impact on Legion

 

Legion as the Sons of Horus

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy and war disposition

 

Exemplary battles, including 1 Unification Wars and 2 Great Crusade

 

7 Sidebars: Home World Classification, Legion Seal, Primarch’s history, Legion’s fall, 2 Intra-Legion groups, & Company Seal

 

 

World Eaters:

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote.

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion, including early Great Crusade disposition

 

Legion as the World Eaters

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy and war disposition

 

Exemplary Battle, including 1 Great Crusade battle w/ Angron

 

5 Sidebars: Old Legion Seal, Primarch’s history, Muster World Classification, New Legion Seal, & Mechanicum/Titan Legio allies

 

 

Emperor’s Children

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains & Allegiance. No quote.

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion, including the gene-seed crisis

 

Introduction of Fulgrim & Chemos, relationship with the Luna Wolves & Horus, and Legion’s fall

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy and war disposition

 

Exemplary Battles, including 3 Great Crusade battles w/o Fulgrim

 

6 Sidebars: The Palatine Aquila, Quote by the Sigillite, Home World Classification, flesh modifications, weapon trophy taking, & the Remembrancers

 

 

Death Guard

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains & Allegiance. No quote.

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Home World depiction

 

Legion under Mortarion

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy and war disposition

 

Exemplary Battle, including 1 Great Crusade battle w/ Mortarion

 

5 Sidebars: Old Legion Seal, Home World Classification, Recruitment programs, Radioactive/Chemical weaponry, and Legion fleet

 

 

 

Iron Hands

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Legion under Ferrus Manus & When Horus is made Warmaster

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, war disposition, Armoured Echelons, Fleet Auxilia & Armour Reserve

 

Exemplary Battle, including 1 Great Crusade Battle w/ Ferrus Manus

 

5 Sidebars: Home World Classification, Clan Heraldry, Primarch history, “Flesh is Weak” Origin, & Forbidden Medusan Tech

 

 

 

Night Lords

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

History of Curze on Nostramo and the Imperium’s discovery of him and the world

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, legion command hierarchy, war disposition, Caradara Armour Claw and Legion Armoury

 

 

Exemplary Battles, including 1 Unification and 2 Great Crusade Battles w/o Curze

 

4 Sidebars: Secret agencies of the Imperium, Home World classification, Curze’s prophetic visions, & destruction of Nostramo

 

 

 

Salamanders

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Description of Nocturne

 

Legion under Vulkan

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy, war disposition, Legion Transport Vehicles, & Siege Cadre Magnor

 

Exemplary Battle, Including 1 Unification Battle

 

4 Sidebars: Home World Classification, Legion physical appearance, Realms of Nocturne, & Legion Beliefs

 

 

 

Word Bearers

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Description of Colchis, Legion under Lorgar, expression, spread and censureship of faith

 

Legion under the new faith

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy, war disposition, & the Serrated Sun Chapter

 

Exemplary Battles, including 1 Unification battle and 2 Great Crusade battle

 

5 Sidebars: Homeworld Classification, the Imperial Truth, Gods & Daemons of the Warp, & the Gal Vorbak

 

 

 

Imperial Fists

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion

 

Description of Inwit, Legion under Rogal Dorn, Legion in later Great Crusade

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy, war disposition, & Retribution Fleet Attack Craft

 

Exemplary Battles, including 1 Unification and 1 Great Crusade w/ Rogal Dorn (Necromunda)

 

5 Sidebars: Dorn & Perturabo, Home World Classification, Legion Star Forts, Legion Warships & Heraldry

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alpha Legion

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion, and earliest use as a “ghost Legion”

 

Legion during the greater Crusade, following its declaration of existence, & under the Primarch(s?)

 

Legion during the later Crusade and Heresy

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, command hierarchy, war disposition, & Ophion Armoured Assault Harrow & Armoured Echelons

 

Exemplary Battles, including 2 Great Crusade Battles

 

3 Sidebars: Alpharius’ origin theories, Tactical Markings & Heraldry, & shifting Legion colors

 

 

Iron Warriors

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion, and early Great Crusade “failures”

 

Legion remade under Perturabo, throughout Great Crusade

 

Unit & Formation Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, war disposition, Armoured Purgation Group ‘Trador,’ & Khalekaorus Super-Heavy Tank

 

Exemplary Battle, including 1 Great Crusade Battle

 

5 Sidebars: Home World Classification, Perturabo’s history, Legion Brotherhoods, Legion’s Fall & Tactical Markings

 

 

Raven Guard

Box w/ Numeration, Primogenitor, Cognomen, Observed Strategic Tendencies, Noteworthy Domains, Allegiance & Quote

 

Intro Blurb & Origins as a Terran Legion, including “subservience” to Horus and the Luna Wolves Legion

 

Legion remade under Corax & falling out w/Horus as the Warmaster

 

Unit Organisation & Structure w/in the Legion, including icons & images, Legion Command Hierarchy, war disposition, armour & aerial forces

 

Exemplary Battles, including 3 Great Crusades, 1 w/o Corax

 

8 Sidebars: Home World Classification, Corax’s history, Prototype Testing of MkVI ‘Corvus’ power armour, Relationship of Deliverance & Kiavahr, Terminators attached to Luna Wolves, Legion after Massacre, Tactical Markings, & Curse of the “Ash Blind” or “Sable Branded”