DWA in 7th?

[Augssan]

Ok I need a little review on DWA.  I have gotten a few friends to come over tomorrow for 40k and pizza.  We are going to sit down and learn 7th and bring one new guy into 40k and update my other friend from 5th.  Both of these guys are playing DA and one has my old Deathwing army.

 

So I'm not teaching them wrong how does Deathwing assault work now in 7th?  Am I understanding it correctly that I can how play a full DSing DW army and DS all on turn one?  Or split them up and have some come in on turn one and some on turn two?

 

 

I know I'm getting stuff wrong on this but I was hoping someone here could get me up to speed so I could help my two DA friends out on this.  

 

Thanks!

 

PS: I will be using Cypher and Crimson Slaughter to give them a fun themed game to learn with.  

[SvenONE]

Everyone who invokes the DWA rule must come in on the same turn.  Theoretically you could say (to yourself) "Ok, I'm going to Deathwing Assault with Terminator Squad A on turn 2, but I'm also going to keep Terminator Squad B in reserve" meaning you'd roll on one and not on the other.  I would advise against such an unsound tactical maneuver! 

 

The thing that changed in 7th was how many of your units you can keep in reserve.  In the 6th, DWA terminators counted towards reserves, so it really screwed up your plans.  You'd always have to have other units to start on the board.  In 7th, you can have a significant DW list and start all of them in reserves provided you leave SOMETHING on the board (3 man RWAS, scouts, Whirlwind, etc.)

[Augssan]

 In 7th, you can have a significant DW list and start all of them in reserves provided you leave SOMETHING on the board (3 man RWAS, scouts, Whirlwind, etc.)

 

Thanks for clearing most of it up for me. :)

 

But I thought you only needed models on the table at the end of your turn not to be subject to the "sudden death" listing in the rule book?  Or are you hinting at that it is better to tactically have them come in turn 2 vs turn 1?

[SvenONE]

Thanks for clearing most of it up for me.

But I thought you only needed models on the table at the end of your turn not to be subject to the "sudden death" listing in the rule book? Or are you hinting at that it is better to tactically have them come in turn 2 vs turn 1?

Correct, it can be the end of your turn, but that's assuming you won the roll-off at deployment/table halves and your opponent didn't seize on you. Sudden Death goes into effect a tthe end of any turn, yours or your opponent. At least if you lose the roll-off for deployment and fail to seize, you've got something hidden that your opponent can't kill (at least until the rest of your army comes in).

Tactically I like to bring them in turn 1 if I have a heavy deep striking army (or drop pods) or lots of bikes (I run a lot of RW armies with some DW support). If your bikes scouted your terminators are basically 18" from your deployment zone, 6" from theirs if you positioned yourself correctly. If I'm running something like a GW/Rhino army I'm deep striking them turn 2 while I wait for my Tacticals to get into position. I like to bring a RWAS to vehicle hunt and for the teleport homers in those lists anyway.

But it really depends on what your opponent's army is.

[Augssan]

Just a FYI sudden death is listed as "game turn" not player turn.  Also thank you for your feedback and understanding some of the DA rules that I was unclear on.

[Diavlo]

Just a FYI sudden death is listed as "game turn" not player turn.  Also thank you for your feedback and understanding some of the DA rules that I was unclear on.

 

Yup I just checked that and there is a "game turn", how nice, didn't realized that. Thanks

[SvenONE]

Sure enough totally correct! I hadn't had my coffee yet! Serves me right for spouting rules before I have!

[Wraith776]

So would by game turn, if you go second and on the first turn you get wiped from the table, are you still able to come in on your turn with Deep striking units due to sudden death being at the end of a game turn?

[Cactus]

So would by game turn, if you go second and on the first turn you get wiped from the table, are you still able to come in on your turn with Deep striking units due to sudden death being at the end of a game turn?

 

Assuming you have reserves that can enter play on your first turn, yes.

[Augssan]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say because if you go second you can not get wiped unless you are up against ion riptides and they intercept you all off the table.  At the end of any game turn that a player has no models on the table they have lost the game.  Read over sudden death and game turn as you can look it up in the back of the book.

[Azoriel]

You're not following what's being said. The definitions of "game turn" and "sudden death" are not being contested.

Lets say for a moment I have an army that consists of all storm ravens, units carried by storm ravens, and a single scout squad. The flyers can't arrive until turn two. My opponent goes first and eliminates the scout squad to a man. My turn comes and I can't do anything because I have nothing on the board. Game turn one ends with my first player turn and I lose to sudden death because I have nothing on the board and no reserves that could be deployed on turn one. That's what Cactus is saying.

Lets say for a moment I have an army that consists of all Deathwing terminators held in reserve and a single scout squad. Deathwing terminators can arrive on turn 1 due to Deathwing assault. My opponent goes first and eliminates the scout squad to a man. My turn comes and my terminators deepstrike onto the board. Game turn one ends with my first player turn; we proceed to game turn two because I have units on the board at the end of game turn one, ergo do not lose to the sudden death rule. That's what Wraith 776 is saying.

(Edit: got my aircraft and chapter names mixed up)