Grey Knights 7e Codex Rumor

[ElectricPaladin]

Lmao no, no way we are getting tanks. And to the whole redundant unit argument, sisters still have crusaders, death cult and arcos, despite those being in two other codices. Does that mean we won't lose inquisition? No, but here's hoping we don't. I will be amazed if we get any more standard marine units, and to be honest I sincerely hope we don't.

 

With imperium all being battle brothers, who's to say our new dex won't supersede both C:GK and C:Inq? The only reason they added it was to give people inquisition access, which isn't an issue now. And ][ is a joke of a stand alone codex size wise anyways. It's weird us having Xenos and hereticus, but it keeps our codex varied enough to stay on par with others

 

I actually agree that this is a possibility. Now that everyone in the Imperium is battle brothers with everything else, another possible outcome is one Inquisition or Grey Knights codex that covers both, potentially with special rules for Inquisitors in an allied detachment superseding the primary detachment's leader as warlord.

[Valerian]

 And to the whole redundant unit argument, sisters still have crusaders, death cult and arcos, despite those being in two other codices.

 

True, but when were the Sisters last updated?  Only a digital codex, and prior to the publication of the Inquisition's digital release.  I would bet one internetz that if/when the Sisters of Battle get another update all of those 'Inquisitorial' units (e.g. 'Henchmen') will be gone, and the focus will be on the Sisters themselves.

 

So, I'm placing bets on the following as the release plan:

 

1.  Inquisition units (Inquisitors and their Henchmen) will stay in the digital Inquisition codex.  Any legacy codices that have these units will see them stripped out whenever they are eventually updated.  Since they're Battle Brothers will all other Imperial forces, all of those forces will go to this codex as a one-stop shop for Inquisition units.

 

2.  Assassins will be stripped out of any codices they're in, and will be released as a dataslate of 4-6 different types of Assassins, also available to any/all Imperial forces.

 

3.  Grey Knights will get a 7e hardback codex that'll only include actual Grey Knights units (e.g. Space Marines of the Chapter) and will have a bit of unit expansion to help fill out the army list choices a bit.  Ordo Malleus teaming is readily available via the digital codex Inquisition, so there is absolutely no need to duplicate those units in this book.

 

4.  Sisters of Battle will get a 7e hardback codex if they're able to re-do the entire model range in plastic and resin (probably yes, but low on the priority list to other ranges).  This book will include only Sisters units, with some expansion to choices.  Ordo Hereticus teaming is readily available via the digital codex Inquisition, so there is absolutely no need to duplicate those units in this book.

 

5.  Deathwatch units might become available via a dataslate or a digital codex, similar to the 'codex' for the Legion of the damned.  They'll be able to team with Ordo Xenos units from the digital codex Inquisition, as well as any other Imperial forces.

 

I'm calling it here.

 

V

[lt051]

Latest sisters dex was only 1 month prior to inquisition. So hard to tell if it was written with it in mind. But it's worth noting all of the inquisition units were already stripped from it, so at the very least they knew they were over lapping the gk dex via some of the henchmen choices.

 

The only reason I don't think inquisition will stick around as it's own dex, is because it essentially copy and paste from gk to begin with, functionally it's almost a supplement in that it adds warlord traits, relics, and valks. The ordo books and their militaries have always been a little scattershot though, so I guess we'll just have to see how gw decides to play it.

 

If they keep inquisition isolated in their own book, I hope they take the opportunity to add more options (unique storm troops, couple more henchmen options, idk) because the current dex is laughably limited if you're using it on it's own

[jeffersonian000]

I'm still of the opinion that the upcoming GK codex will be a SM codex suppliment, including only GK units, GK specific relics, weapons, and special rules. It will cost $40 US. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but my gut says suppliment with all Inquisition units stripped out.

 

SJ

[lt051]

Na, all the current marine supplements let you pick c:sm options. Give what happened to Templars I can understand the fear of that, but it'd be more trouble than it's worth to make us a supplement. Especially considering the relative popularity your codex saw for a bit in 5th, and then again recently.

 

Although I'm super pumped to see what relics we get

 

I think worse case we are looking at losing inquisition options, which seems to be the winning opinion, and really isn't that bad. Other than that I think this update will be a lot like the last guard and nid dexes, some changes, maybe a new unit or two, but nothing major like our last update

[boreas]

Gk are keeping a codex. BT were rolled in the main codex  because they are the worse selling Marines by a big margin.

[lt051]

Yet they destroy ETL lol

[Slipp01]

You can't really say that about black Templar. They have a huge margin of

Fluff from the black library, they had all kinds of special attention in the video game. The black Templar are as relevant as any other army in the 40k universe. How well do you think tau sold before they got their update? To say an army that hasn't been updated in 2 editions sells poorly, is like saying people don't like losing. Has nothing to do with favour, not popularity.

 

Sorry just hit a tight spot for me. Been playing my boys in black since early 5th edition.

[ElectricPaladin]

You can't really say that about black Templar. They have a huge margin of

Fluff from the black library, they had all kinds of special attention in the video game. The black Templar are as relevant as any other army in the 40k universe. How well do you think tau sold before they got their update? To say an army that hasn't been updated in 2 editions sells poorly, is like saying people don't like losing. Has nothing to do with favour, not popularity.

 

Sorry just hit a tight spot for me. Been playing my boys in black since early 5th edition.

 

I think that Slipp01 is right. GW's decision making is... highly idiosyncratic. They don't make decisions based purely on finances, but neither are their decisions based solely on what the creative team wants, or the needs of a balanced game. And yet, none of these factors are completely ignored, either.

 

We need to stop pretending that we know what GW is going to do based on anyone's pet theory. From all accounts I've read, GW is an organizational mess. What they do is based as much on who has managed to get control of what department right now as it is on any guiding philosophy.

 

There are probably a lot of reasons the Black Templars were rolled into Codex: Space Marines. Some of those reasons might include:

• Sales.
• Difficulty in maintaining that IP against encroachment (the "you can't copywrite a black maltese cross" theory).
• Their significant similarity to Codex: Space Marines and GW's desire to clean up their cluttered release schedule.
• GW testing the waters for future roll-ins (Space Wolves? Blood Angels? Dark Angels?).
• Lack of Black Templar partisans in the creative team (ie. they got bored with them, didn't want to bother writing them a whole book, thought that this was a good compromise).
• Something entirely different!

 

Until I get hard data, I'm assuming that the "real" reason is actually a combination of all of these.

[boreas]

That came from someone working on Eternal Crusade. While brainstorming with people from GW, they decided not to include BT because of that...

[lt051]

Either way, if gk somehow, against all odds, got rolled into sm, it'd become an entirely different army game wise. Out of all the theories I think it's safe to say that's the least likely. Thank god

[ElectricPaladin]

That came from someone working on Eternal Crusade. While brainstorming with people from GW, they decided not to include BT because of that...

 

See, that is data. Thanks!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think it would be a real tragedy if we got bundled into the main Marine book. The biggest thing against that is all our unique kits, wargear and special rules. The reason Templars got bundled is because most of their tricks (LRC's, large squads of Marines, melee ability etc) has been replicated by either regular Marines or Spiky Marines now. 

 

We're effectively an army of anti-Daemon Librarians. Not to mention stuff like the Dreadknight doesn't translate well to Marines. 

[Xwingt65]

My guess is that we will see Grey Knigts and Blood Angels in the same month, as both codexes need very few new, or no new, models.

 

A month could easily be filled with Grey knight model(s) the first week, the codex the second, Blood angels models the third and the BA codex the 4th week.

[Deamon Wolf]

I dont know I think it would be a BIG shame if GW didnt come out with a new range of Special Charater models and maybe somthing specificly anty tank cool for us in the way of models

 

but we could always take an unbound vindicar

[MrKnify]

Just shy 3 years for grey nights, over 4 years for blood angels.... no brained. Grey nights first. 8th edition is when Blood angels will be updated... so next year.. lol

[Brovius]

Just shy 3 years for grey nights, over 4 years for blood angels.... no brained. Grey nights first. 8th edition is when Blood angels will be updated... so next year.. lol

Blood Angels can at least use C:SM to tie them over and still be WYSIWYG, GKs don't have that luxury, and GKs are in a sore spot in the current state of the game (when GKs were new they were only 4 points more than a vanilla SM, the points disparity has since increased to 6pts), several rules, wargear and abilities got altered and psychic powers made redundant (there goes the only niche the BHC ever had) and with the sheer amount of AP1-2 firepower and ability to ignore cover, GKTs aren't nearly survivable enough to be worthwhile. 20pt super marines that die as easy as 14pt normal marines is a deathwish. At least Thousand Sons have invulns for their steep point cost.

 

Also, if BA counts-as C:SM they get stuff like Centurions, Thunderfire Cannons and Grav-guns, and can still cherry-pick the stuff they want with Allies (like assault-from-deepstrike Vanguard. The sooner BA get a codex, the faster they lose this advantage)

[Captain Coolpants]

Would be pretty crazy if they made a big ass new inquisition book with all ordos and chamber militants. I'd actually really like that. Would be easier to make fluffy builds then. Would also mean we'd finally get a death watch /exorcist codex.... Kinda :-P

 

 

But forget about my wish listing. As our codex is regularly doing poorly in comps (without henchmen) due to the very long range shooty deny your cover/armour saves orientation of 7th edition. We are in desperate need of either a few added rules or more fast attack/assault transports to enable us to actually get in close and use our nemesis weapons. A simple deepstrike assault would literally solve our whole codex, along with more expensive but more reliable (meaning they don't blow up) servo skulls. Games workshop wouldn't even have to go through the pain of making and producing new models or whatever then. Just a simple fix for our simple problem.

[Quozzo]

Would be pretty crazy if they made a big ass new inquisition book with all ordos and chamber militants. I'd actually really like that. Would be easier to make fluffy builds then. Would also mean we'd finally get a death watch /exorcist codex.... Kinda :-P

I think that's what they're going for, but a modular, agile approach. You can chose the C:I to start you off and then pick the chamber militant you want, either SoB or GK. I would be surprised if they didn't release the assassins as a new codex/dataslate and if GK is next then am I right in thinking that would be the next codex after C:I?

[jeffersonian000]

What Grey Knights need more than any other suggested change is the return of The Shrouding. The entire GK marine line up is based on mid to close range, which had a range denial ability built in to allow GK units to move into mid to close range. Even though the original rules for The Shrouding were less than useful most of the time, it did act to midigate the disparety in range between GK and virtually every other army in the game. If GM cannot be shot at reliably outside of close range, the high cost of GK units does not work against them. At the moment, we are paying for a range denial ability we haven't had since our current codex released.

 

Now, I'm not advocated for a return of the 3x 3d6 random range check we had in 3rd and 4th, although GW does love the random this edition. Yet, I am advocating for some form of range check that fits with our existing cost per unit that will net a similar benefit we are already paying for. The Shrouding was tied into the GK shared psychic consciousness, and could still be in the new 7th Ed codex if GW is cleaver about not handicapping GKs even more so. What I'd like to see is new version of The Shrouding that forces a range check before GK units can be targeted. For that, I'd happily pay 40+ ppm for our GKT, or 20+ ppm for our PAGK, because they would be worth those points.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

What Grey Knights need more than any other suggested change is the return of The Shrouding. The entire GK marine line up is based on mid to close range, which had a range denial ability built in to allow GK units to move into mid to close range. Even though the original rules for The Shrouding were less than useful most of the time, it did act to midigate the disparety in range between GK and virtually every other army in the game. If GM cannot be shot at reliably outside of close range, the high cost of GK units does not work against them. At the moment, we are paying for a range denial ability we haven't had since our current codex released.

 

Not going to happen. 'The Shrouding' is a psychic power in the Telepathy discipline now. Our old Shrouding was pretty amazing really, considering it was free on everything. 

 

We don't pay for range denial anymore. We're paying for force weapons, psychic powers, storm bolters, Preferred Enemy: Daemons etc. So much has changed since 3rd edition that bring back old Shrouding would be pretty close to worthless, and also counter-productive. As a different example, Tau Stealth suits used to have a complicated 'can't shoot me beyond X' rule as well. GW nerfed them to 'you get Shrouded' and left it at that. 

Now, I'm not advocated for a return of the 3x 3d6 random range check we had in 3rd and 4th, although GW does love the random this edition. Yet, I am advocating for some form of range check that fits with our existing cost per unit that will net a similar benefit we are already paying for. The Shrouding was tied into the GK shared psychic consciousness, and could still be in the new 7th Ed codex if GW is cleaver about not handicapping GKs even more so. What I'd like to see is new version of The Shrouding that forces a range check before GK units can be targeted. For that, I'd happily pay 40+ ppm for our GKT, or 20+ ppm for our PAGK, because they would be worth those points.

 

If you want something like that, I'd suggest spamming 'Telepathy' psykers and hoping you roll 'Invisibility'. Its absurdly powerful at shutting down enemy shooting, and it even helps in melee. 'Shrouded' is also in Telepathy. 

[jeffersonian000]

RD, you missed my point.

 

SJ

[Dread]

I'm not sure what's gonna happen but I will be surprised if any new models come out. I think the dex will be a compilation of all the errata and maybe, just maybe, a new unit or 2 with possible new weapons choices but definatly a fix on what we do have. But this is just me.

[Brovius]

What Jeffers was meaning is that GKs are 20 points for models that die just as easily as every other 14pt Space Marine out there, and GKs really need something to prevent them being shot off the board before getting to do anything.

[lt051]

While they get shot off just as easy, what RD said is correct, we pay extra for melee threat, psychic prowess, and mass storm bolters, not to mention unique special weapons in melee/shooting. While these don't make us more durable to being shot, they do make us better offensively. If we got knocked down to cheaper bare bones models we'd be marines, and any survivability buffs would probably push into op territory. I think cost wise strike and interceptors are in a good range right now, might get a small drop but honestly I doubt it. If anything purifiers might go up either directly or thought their options