Reede Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hey all, so like stated, what do we think of the Wolf Tail Talisman and how it works in 7th edition. Since they haven't mentioned it all in the FAQ we can assume it still works as stated. If a unit is targeted with a psychic ability where a character has a Wolf Tail Talisman, on a 5+ it is nullified. Now my wondering is, how does this work in turn with a Deny the Witch test? My first thought was you choose one(and chances are i'll continue to play it this way), but they've removed the FAQ section that stated we do not get more than one roll against the psychic powers. To me honestly it seems like it's more of an oversight in the rushed out FAQ's, but does anyone have a differing opinion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fytharin Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I think it's an oversight. While having a second roll to deny with would be insanely cool, I think it would be too overpowered? Maybe? ? ? For now it may be safe to count it as a +1 to DtW but this is one thing to bring up to your opponent before a match. That's what I'm doing until it's FAQ'd anyways. =/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I should have asked about that when I wrote the rules team; maybe I'll send another note to them to ask about this one. I don't doubt that it'll eventually get the Amendment/Errata treatment, when they finally notice it and decide to deal with it. Whether that'll be to give it another +1 bonus to Deny the Witch rolls, or whether it'll just no longer do anything at all, or something completely different, remains to be seen, and I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what direction they will lean. For now, however, it is appropriate to play it as the rule is written; you get a 5+ change to nullify when a unit with the WTT is targeted. Now, whether that roll is made before, or after, the Deny the Witch attempt isn't stated, so you should probably do a separate roll to determine the order of things, if you can't come to an agreement with your foe. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I am with Val. The wording of the talisman does not suggest any interaction with Deny the Witch, but instead suggests it very own mechanic to nullify. In this you would be given two chances to stop a psychic power, nullify via the talisman and then via Deny the Witch. This is what I originally felt was appropriate when they disallowed multiple attempts at stopping psychic powers by the Wolves. The bearer of a talisman would have its own power separate from that of the unit's will to Deny the Witch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Bets on whether GW lets it ride till the new dex????? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I don't know rift, I could almost seeing it be intentional. Given the massive nerf to Rune Priests (the lack of any kind of area protection is utterly ridiculous) and that most of the stuff from before they straight up copy pasted over it seems almost intentional that they left that out. I mean the whole FAQ & Eratta dealt with bringing things up to snuff with the new Psychic Phase, so while we often don't have faith in GW's rules making (sometimes they give us good reason to believe this, other times it's wholesale overreacting) I feel like it would have been really difficult for them to miss something that important. In the end i think that FAQ section was left out as on oversight, but there's definitely arguments to be made for it being left out intentionally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn33r Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Has anyone emailed asking? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm turning in now, but will send a note off tomorrow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3712853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Could be intentional. Not conversant with 7th(to busy with work)but from everything I'm hearing & reading, it seems the pyschic phase took a kicking. And we Wolves are not much into psykers so why not give us tat little extra edge. Almost fluffy if you think about it. Guess time will tell. By the way, thanks for starting the thread. I probably would have missed this little trick by the time I get time to get caught up & play again. Still might forget by then. LOL!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3713019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Sent an email about this today, will pass along the reply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3713356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I've now sent them an email as well: Dear sir or madam, I have one more question regarding Codex Space Wolves that should probably be addressed in a future FAQ: The rules for the Wolf Tail Talisman, a piece of wargear that most Space Wolves characters can purchase as an optional upgrade, states that if a unit with a character with this item is targetted by an enemy's Psychic Power, it is nullified by a d6 roll of 5+. Is this roll made before or after a Deny the Witch attempt? Thank you in advance, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3713402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn33r Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Any reply.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3714799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Any reply.. They won't provide a direct reply. If they feel it is worth responding to, they'll update the Errata/Amendments/FAQ document. Whether they feel that's worth the trouble, given the forthcoming rumored new Codex remains to be seen. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3714872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn33r Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ok cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3715222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I would say if it is a seperate roll, it would go after the deny the witch. I say this simply because a deny the witch is a stopping the manifestation of a power. Whereas the wolf tail talisman is nullifying the effects of the power on the target unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Thanks for writing in to us, although I don't have great news for you. If you have a question about the rules that you feel needs to be addressed in one of our FAQ articles then the correct e-mail address to send it to is gamefaqs@gwplc.com. The questions that are sent to this address are read by the rules designers and if they feel they need to include it in a future FAQ article then they will add it in. However, we can’t guarantee if they will do so or how long this will take. Unfortunately we are not able to answer rules questions through the customer service line. I would recommend approaching gaming friends, reviewing the question, and make your own determination. Should you have any other questions, then please give us a call at 1-800-394-4263. This is the reply I got from the company Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 not great news, but we expected as much I think. They were under a lot of pressure to put out the FAQs quickly and didn't have time to revise everything. Plus with rumour that we may get a new codex soon it may not be a long term issue. I'm inclined to agree with others in this thread that this is a separate roll from deny the witch. First you attempt to deny the witch then, if the power gets through you have a 5+ to nullify the effects of the power (provided the power is targeting a unit with a model that has the talisman). In the past it has been FAQ'd that you don't get to roll both deny and the talisman, you get either/or. However, those FAQs are now invalid and as such we must revert to using the rules as they appear in the codex. I suppose one way to look at it is we got this as a sort of bonus since they got rid of runic weapons, at least until they either alter the FAQ or produce a new codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 not great news, but we expected as much I think. They were under a lot of pressure to put out the FAQs quickly and didn't have time to revise everything. Plus with rumour that we may get a new codex soon it may not be a long term issue. I'm inclined to agree with others in this thread that this is a separate roll from deny the witch. First you attempt to deny the witch then, if the power gets through you have a 5+ to nullify the effects of the power (provided the power is targeting a unit with a model that has the talisman). In the past it has been FAQ'd that you don't get to roll both deny and the talisman, you get either/or. However, those FAQs are now invalid and as such we must revert to using the rules as they appear in the codex. I suppose one way to look at it is we got this as a sort of bonus since they got rid of runic weapons, at least until they either alter the FAQ or produce a new codex. What bit of runic weapons did they get rid of? AAH ok, I just looked it up, we get plus 1 to deny the witch, instead of 4+. However if the Psyker attacking us is only level 1 and we are 2, we get an extra plus 1. Is that correct? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yeah we used to have a 4+ runic weapon bubble that nullified powers in 24" of the bearer. However, now as you say this is a flat +1 to deny the witch. Additionally, if as you say you are using a ML2 psyker and they have ML1 and the psykers unit is targeted then you will get another +1 to this deny the witch (going to a 4+) or if you use Njal 3+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 still doesn't make Njal worth it imo. New dex needs to seriously balance the points cost of our characters. (Except for Logan, he has been worth it when I have used him.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Actually Njal can go to a 2+ if you pit him against a lvl 1 psyker. Remember you get a straight +1 just for being a psyker yourself. Base - 6+ Staff - 4+ Psyker - 3+ Higher Level - 2+ The biggest issue is we don't have any area deny. You only get it if the group targeted has the Rune Priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3716930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Unfortunately Njal is only mastery level 2. So pitted against a mastery level one it is as follows. 6+ base 4+ with staff ( +2 bonus) 3+ being one mastery level above the psyker (+1 bonus) I don't think he can get a 2+ On his own. Though I wonder if you put him in the same unit as another rune priest as I think they may be cumulative. Don't quote me on it though. Edit: stand corrected I hadn't spotted the + 1 for just being a psyker. Everyday is a school day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3717138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 99% sure it can go to a 2+ in that case. Book states that Being a Psyker and being a Higher Level Psyker are two separate bonuses when modifying the Deny The Witch roll. Aye, it makes him a Deny Boss. Even Arhiman is going to be cursing a storm when you're just blowing his witchfires out of the air. He cost a land raider, but you can bet that whoever he is with isn't getting hit by Psychic powers lol, now if he just got a freaking psychic hood.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3717149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sorry reede you were spot on with that one. Interestingly do you think it can be pushed to a 1+ with another runic weapon in the unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3717156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reede Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't believe so, as I think you pick which model is making the Deny The Witch Test, it's not actually group wide. So you would either choose Njal to take it or the stock Rune Priest, clearly going with Njal since his will be better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292182-so-what-do-we-think-of-the-wolf-tail-talisman/#findComment-3717160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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