Beating Psychic Death Stars

[hornywingythingy]

And the 85 quid price tag! ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

And the 85 quid price tag!

Well, I already own one, so it's pointless to argue about the price In the end, it's just another mean to an end. One tosses around conscripts, another Knights and then there are the others, but we do not talk about them...

[march10k]

No, the only save and reliable way to get a Knight down is spamming him to death with long ranged AT like s8 and higher. A lucky melta shot is too risky for most players to pull off.

 

 

There's also the thundernator option...They get their 3++ against the ensuing KABOOM now...

[Frater Cornelius]

 

No, the only save and reliable way to get a Knight down is spamming him to death with long ranged AT like s8 and higher. A lucky melta shot is too risky for most players to pull off.

 

 

There's also the thundernator option...They get their 3++ against the ensuing KABOOM now...

 

 

Not really. The Knight strikes at I4 and even though his attacks only remove on 6, 2-5 means d3 wounds per model, so around 2-3 TDA should go before they get to attack. 4-6 s8 attacks on av13 hitting on 4s is not going to work. I had a TDA squad with chain fists fighting him in melee and it did not help. There is also the melta large blast that might take one or the other hammernator before they get to charge. And if all else fails, stomp then at I1 at the same time like the hammers. 5 hammernators down and the Knight should have made 2/3 of his points back, not counting the shooting he would have done by the point Hammernators get close.

Oh and if they are in a LR, they will not make it in time because my AT is strong and at least 1 crew shaken/stunned should be possible in 2 rounds of shooting. No, I am confident in the Knight's melee abilities.

[march10k]

Hmmm....good point.  what about deathwing knights or repentia?

[Frater Cornelius]

Hmmm....good point.  what about deathwing knights or repentia?

 

Hm, if taken completely out of context and pit the 2 against each other with no shooting whatsoever, Knight with s10 ap2 up and a full squad of Repentia are capable to blow him into obilivion, with the Knight being capable of telling the tale of his demise. If there is a full 10 women squad of Repentia, they will kill him but die in the subsequent explosion. If there are only 5 ladies, then the higher I of the Knight will destroy half of them, making it unlikely that Repentia can kill it before they get stomped.

Both are very dangerous to the Knight.

 

But let's bring in some context. There is 1 reliable way to get DWK and REP into combat without taking casualties: assault transport. With the new BB rules they both have access to a LR and a SR. The LR is not a threat to me, seeing how it has to move aggressively and thus will abandon cover for speed, meaning Paskquisher will get a guaranteed pen on it with a 50% chance to stun, immobilize or explode it. There is also the Knights melta. Given that I will get approx. 2 turns of shooting on a LR, this should stop it fairly early and thus neuter the squad it carries by having it exposed to my anti infantry fire.

The SR is tricky. If I move my Knight offensively, he will be in charge range after he arrives. But due to reserves rules, they need to wait 1 turn. Vanquisher is not as much of a threat to the SR. I have 2 Hydras though, but it is unlikely that between evading and s7 vs av12 that they kill it or manage to stun it. I do have a lot of AC in my army, many of them being TL, so the is a realistic chance that the SR will go down to focus fire. If not, I need to rely on smart positioning to avoid melee or simply go all in with the Knight and attempt to do as much damage as possible and get into a good explosion area before he dies. Of cause the SR is subject to reserve rolls and flyer movement limitations, so it is not a guaranteed kill.

 

Knight can also DS, but with 12" movement and 1 turn in the open, it is unlikely that the DWK ever make it into melee. Of cause, DW alpha strike is harrowing to me because if I do not manage to kill/avoid the TDA, they will rip me a new one with their fists/hammers (the rest of my tanks that is). So I need to position myself smartly and use 1 movement and shooting phase to it's maximum potential to pull off a domination. Otherwise a costly victory is the most logical outcome.

 

So, overall the Repentia and DWK with Smite up have a very good chance to kill the Knight in melee but their chances of getting there are not guaranteed and I might go as far as to say that it is unlikely that they see melee combat with a unit they desire against me.

But that is only the case if there is 1 of those squads present. If there are 2, the Knight will die but then the opponent has too many points dedicated to bring it down and suffers the explosion, so in the end I still say mission accomplished because the Knight forced them to disembark and spend a turn in the open so that the rest of the army can gun them down.

 

I stay by my words that a Knight's biggest enemy is s8 and s9 spam (outside of apoc units, which you do not see very often in regular 40k).

[march10k]

I agree that the best way to handle a knight is by pointing lots of lascannons at it from different angles so that some of them bypass the shield...that said, my deathwing are fully mechanized...three crusaders (with rerolls on the damage table) with a 4++ protecting the lot of them, as long  as they stay together.  The idea was to team-rush a riptide and rip it apart (before the knight was released) before dispersing into the enemy deployment zone to wreak havoc, but I think the same thing applies here, the three crusaders stick together and rush the knight,  only the knights get out to smite it, then it's on through for the two troops squads to thundernate the proper tanks.  Things can and do go wrong with the list (I tend to immobilize at least one tank on terrain on turn one...never fails!), but it's crazy-stupid fast aggro that can flat-out  across the board's centerline on turn one.  The hard part, of course, is that your knight's  charge range matches the mounted termies', but it's not even something to think about, they have to get over there fast and start punching things before the knight or pask start blowing up land raiders.  Anyway, I think sixteen assaulty terminators and three shielded crusaders present a tactical problem that's only slightly less vexing than the jet  council.

[Frater Cornelius]

I agree that the best way to handle a knight is by pointing lots of lascannons at it from different angles so that some of them bypass the shield...that said, my deathwing are fully mechanized...three crusaders with a 4++ protecting the lot of them, as long  as they stay together.  The idea was to team-rush a riptide and rip it apart (before the knight was released) before dispersing into the enemy deployment zone to wreak havoc, but I think the same thing applies here, the three crusaders stick together and rush the knight,  only the knights get out to smite it, then it's on through for the two troops squads to thundernate the proper tanks.  Things can and do go wrong with the list (I tend to immobilize at least one tank on terrain on turn one...never fails!), but it's crazy-stupid fast aggro that can flat-out  across the board's centerline on turn one.  The hard part, of course, is that your knight's  charge range matches the mounted termies', but it's not even something to think about, they have to get over there fast and start punching things before the knight or pask start blowing up land raiders.  Anyway, I think sixteen assaulty terminators and three shielded crusaders present a tactical problem that's only slightly less vexing than the jet  council.

 

Aye, 3 Crusaders with Thundernators is daunting. But beware, if you do the mistake of bunching up the LR, the Knight will capitalize on it with his s9 ap1 melta large blast. 2 LR in 1 shot if I am lucky. Other than that, I would need more sophisticated tactics: Pask keeps one LR locked down and try keep him away. Hydras would be useless, they will be used to block the approach of the LR and try to separate them to remove that 4++. Veterans would not disembark but get close and do a melta drive by. Basically hit and run tactics to stop the LR in the mid field (immobilizing or stunning is enough) so that my army's superior mobility at that points would allow me to outmaneuver foot termies. But not as easy to pull off seeing how the LR can retaliate and isn't just a transport box.

The Knight can also pull a nice move by sacrificing himself. He charges and obviously kills one LR that does not have the Knights in it. This will either force the Knights to disembark and charge my Knight because they are the only thing that can reliably hurt him. If this happens, I successfully occupied 2/3 threats on the field, buying me 1-2 more turns of shooting.

If the Knights move on and you gable on Thundernators to kill the Knight, chances are that the Knight survives this and continues the Melta spam.

 

Funnily enough it is the LR that bother me more than the TDA, because they are the key to your list. Once they are taken out of commission, it simple becomes an extra tedious shooting gallery.

Either way, I believe it would be an interesting game.

[Frater Cornelius]

Ive seen bloodlance do some horrible things to vehicle blocks in a pod list. Not reliable but big when it happens.

This is a graet thread by the way, im going to follow it!

This will not happen again any time soon because the recent 7ed FAQ/errata has removed all codex powers for BA and SW, instead giving them access to other disciplines.

So until the BA update comes around and includes blood lances, I am save in the knowledge that at least one drop podding vehicle massacre is spared ;)

[march10k]

You don't have to be particularly lucky to hit two tanks with the large blast, but it's certainly NOT a mistake to bunch them up like that, the 4++ more than outweighs the possibility of you getting two hits.  As for the hydras, I like that counter, but you have to make sure you obstruct the right crusader.  The "release point" is when the formation is in charge range of the first threat, in this case the knight...if the knights' crusader can get around the hydras and deliver the smite, they'll gladly leave the 4++ bubble to do so.  After all, with the knight off the board, the real remaining threat is Pask and then the wyverns, your meltavet units are few in number and can only go 6" if they don't want to be snap-shotting.  And I'm not afraid to charge a taurox and accept that I'll have to take stormshield saves against two meltaguns the next turn, because in the end, the terminators will have killed two super-scorers, and they'll still be there...well, a couple of them will, lol.

 

/edit/

 

Anyway, it's not a very competitive list I have, I only play IG in competitive play, lol.  The mechanized deathwing are in reserve in case I have to play riptide spam or something.  It just occurred to me that they're a credible melee threat to the knight.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I recently have discovered a very interesting way to stop psychic super units. Or, well, psykers in general. The GK Stormraven Mindstrike missiles. They have not been FAQ'd, so all you have to do is hit a small blast with BS4 within 72" to force a Perils on any psyker in that unit, each SR has 4 and can fire up to 2 a turn. For every unit that does not have invisibility all it takes is to get a few hits to cause some hilarious effects. And if invisibility is on it, attempt to either deny it or wait until it fails. Those missiles are just awesome :D

[march10k]

Hm, I recently have discovered a very interesting way to stop psychic super units. Or, well, psykers in general. The GK Stormraven Mindstrike missiles. They have not been FAQ'd, so all you have to do is hit a small blast with BS4 within 72" to force a Perils on any psyker in that unit, each SR has 4 and can fire up to 2 a turn. For every unit that does not have invisibility all it takes is to get a few hits to cause some hilarious effects. And if invisibility is on it, attempt to either deny it or wait until it fails. Those missiles are just awesome

That's FANTASTIC!!! Reminds me of casting hammer of witches on a PBS...Hammer doesn't actually target anything, just specifies that the D6 nearest psychers take perils...and at that time, each member was an individual psycher...what happens in a PBS if you have to take a perils test? Now, multiply that by D6...D6xD3 summary executions!!!! Ah, those were good times...both times I pulled it off, that is.