Mech and raiders in 7th - working for anyone?

[nevaenuffbass]

Hey all with the new rules making our transports both scoring and harder to kill with the new damage table, are they finding it lasts longer?

 

I was thinking of a list with a raider, 2 vindis, 2 baals and either jumpers or razorback assault marines.

 

Thoughts?

[ravenshard42]

I've got a 1500pt tourney coming up that I'm gonna try a 4 raider list on, will be getting son practice games this week so I'll let you know how it goes

[Cronhour]

Planning on a 2k list with two raiders (redeemer and standard) a raven and the Sicarian and scorpius whirlwind' from imperial armour. lots of high av with a decent amount of ap3.

[knife&fork]

High AV is indeed more survivable. Things like the dark angels venerable raiders are extremely hardy now!

 

However, if you play with 'maelstrom of war' missions these units do suck up a lot of points! Having many mobile units is very useful and can give you a serious advantage in working through those tactical objective cards. 

 

For those reasons I'm not sold on the idea of 7th being the golden age or LR spam, in truth these things are still too expensive. 

[Cronhour]

High AV is indeed more survivable. Things like the dark angels venerable raiders are extremely hardy now!

 

However, if you play with 'maelstrom of war' missions these units do suck up a lot of points! Having many mobile units is very useful and can give you a serious advantage in working through those tactical objective cards. 

 

For those reasons I'm not sold on the idea of 7th being the golden age or LR spam, in truth these things are still too expensive.

 

I agree, I!m mainly testing them out as I needed a list for tonight and I'm sleep deprived. In future I think one standard LR with a 5 man squad would be a good base unit with lots of fast vehicles such as the Sicarian, baals, and razor backs weaving their way around the battlefield. I'm currently repurposing a couple of land raider flame storm cannons to represent TL heavy flamers on razorbacks, which I think would be a nice way to clear and claim objectives.

[nevaenuffbass]

Are the razors any more survivable? 

 

I think in 2000 I can fit a crusader a reclusiarch, corbulo and assault squad, 2 vindis, 2 baals and 3 or four razors with 5 man ass squads (a special weapon each)

[knife&fork]

Not really. In theory they should also benefit from the more forgiving damage table but in practice most lists carry plenty of mid strength guns to quickly strip AV11 vehicles of their hull points without committing the heavy hitters. 

[Bartali]

Now that Raiders when bought for ASM are super scoring, I don't think they're that expensive. Depends on your opponents really, if Melta is rampant in your meta then they're a no-no. Otherwise they're probably fine.

 

I'm waiting to see what the 7th ed codex brings before making the jump down that route though

[Mike the Zealous]

I've had some decent luck in normal 40k games with my land raiders, they have definitely made their mark in most games. I think the trick is to use the LRR with Death Co in em so you can shove em down an opponent's throat. They aren't the best in Maelstrom of War games, but they still have a use. They definitely arent overpowered or the end all be all in 40k, but I do like their renewed vigor in 40k 7th ed

[Cronhour]

Played a game last night and wanted to try a heavy metal list, two raiders (standard&redeemer) Sicarian battle tank, whirlwind hyperios, and a raven with DC and furioso . Turned up to face a vindicator, lascannon & missile launcher dread, lascannon tac squad, las and missile dev squad' and multi melta speeder. With two presience libs in there as well. Lost one land raider redeemer but he delivered his squad to the relic and covered they're retreat shrouding from telepethy helped as did getting first turn so the vindi didn't get to fire but the they're still prettyuseful and tanky, I think redeemers are a good fit for us as you ram it down they're throat and they have to deal with it, allows your other stuff to go unmolested as long as it's in vehicles too.

[knife&fork]

Now that Raiders when bought for ASM are super scoring, I don't think they're that expensive.  

 

It's still a tank that costs more than a 1o man unit of fully kitted additional troops. Not that much shooting, can never fight in close combat, can be one-shotted by a lot of things (including a widely available 5 pt upgrade) and to top it off it's rather slow and be immobilised by almost any piece of terrain. 

 

For the price of a single land raider you outfit an entire army with drop pods, the majority of which will also be scoring. 

 

They are far better now but still very over priced. 

[Chaplain Admetus]

Quad-land raider is a trap list. I think one land raider is a decent shout, as now they HAVE to kill the damned thing. LR spam is a win-big/lose-big army; either they can't deal with that many land raiders (Tau, looking at you here, along with everything else that relies on S7) and you crush them, or they can (Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters if they can still take that frankly ludicrous amount of melta I used to see) and you lose in about 15 minutes.

(Also, if we're taking liberties with the thread title, my Dark Eldar raider rush list is enjoying being king of Maelstrom missions )

[Emperors Immortals]

I'm wondering if a LR sternguard unit could pressure one end of an enemies zone with say bike support with jumpers and pods coming DIWN in his backfiekd.

 

That's a list I've wanted for ages and gave up on, think its viable now? I'm talking 1500 odd points.

[Bartali]

 

Now that Raiders when bought for ASM are super scoring, I don't think they're that expensive.  

 

It's still a tank that costs more than a 1o man unit of fully kitted additional troops. Not that much shooting, can never fight in close combat, can be one-shotted by a lot of things (including a widely available 5 pt upgrade) and to top it off it's rather slow and be immobilised by almost any piece of terrain. 

 

For the price of a single land raider you outfit an entire army with drop pods, the majority of which will also be scoring. 

 

They are far better now but still very over priced. 

 

 

Shooting is roughly on par with a Tactical Squad (Crusader) - 6x TL Bolters + TL Assault Cannon. It can't fight in close combat, but it also can't be tarpitted. It can be one shotted by Melta, but is immune to <S8 shooting. Don't buy that it's slow

 

At 215pts (when bought with ASM), I think they're one of the best super scoring units in the BA book

[Shaezus]

I think 4 raiders would be more vulnerable than having 3 with support eg. vindicators baals and aegis line. It's easy for many lists to carry a lot of melta and lance but with that support you can take them down early.

[Rellik]

When the new dex comes out I would like to see a magna-melta option for the baal Pred.   OOOooooo that would be nice.

[nevaenuffbass]

So...mixed reviews.

 

Do you think a pure mech list would be more or less effective than 4-5 av 13/14 vehicles supported by 2-3 squads of jump pack or drop pod marines?

[Shaezus]

The problem with razorback spam is they are as vulnerable as ever to death by glancing from anything stronger than a boltgun.

 

The more I look at raider spam the more convinced I am that it is the most solid list. At 1850 points I've got a libby with 4 x 5-man squads, two phobos/ godhammer, a crusader, a redeemer, two vindicators and an aegis line with icarus. It can take on all comers, will be a nightmare for a lot of armies and has enough firepower to take out vehicles or squads with melta from long range. The biggest thing of course is the 4 x AV 14 super-scoring vehicles.

[Jakbal]

The problem with razorback spam is they are as vulnerable as ever to death by glancing from anything stronger than a boltgun.

 

The more I look at raider spam the more convinced I am that it is the most solid list. At 1850 points I've got a libby with 4 x 5-man squads, two phobos/ godhammer, a crusader, a redeemer, two vindicators and an aegis line with icarus. It can take on all comers, will be a nightmare for a lot of armies and has enough firepower to take out vehicles or squads with melta from long range. The biggest thing of course is the 4 x AV 14 super-scoring vehicles.

 

I would hate to play against that army list.

[knife&fork]

 

The problem with razorback spam is they are as vulnerable as ever to death by glancing from anything stronger than a boltgun.

 

The more I look at raider spam the more convinced I am that it is the most solid list. At 1850 points I've got a libby with 4 x 5-man squads, two phobos/ godhammer, a crusader, a redeemer, two vindicators and an aegis line with icarus. It can take on all comers, will be a nightmare for a lot of armies and has enough firepower to take out vehicles or squads with melta from long range. The biggest thing of course is the 4 x AV 14 super-scoring vehicles.

 

I would hate to play against that army list.

 

 

Eldar, dark eldar, raven wing and white scars would love playing it though.  

[Shaezus]

Yeah lance is a bigger threat than melta where I am, but I've not yet come across any ravenwing or whitescar users and have yet to lose to DE so raider spam is fine for our local tourny, which doesn't allow forgeworld.

 

For Caly next year I'm hoping to chuck in a couple of Sicarans, funds permitting.

[knife&fork]

How about 4 land raiders, a storm raven and mephiston? You can do that easily at 1850 and it feels more balanced.

[Shaezus]

Oh man thats a lethal list for sure! I fell out with stormravens (literally, they didn't stay in the sky too long) last year and opted for raiders instead, found them more reliable and far less likely to immolate their own cargo :D

 

Now you got me thinking though..trading two vindis and an icarus for mephy and raven..reduces my firepower vs hordes and vehicles but brings a serious offensive element to the game. Will have to think about that, cheers :)

[Remtek]

Just tried a 7th ed game tonight, Razorbacks/Rhinos feel alot more tankey now! Yeah, they can be glanced to death, but they are also very cheap. Unless your oponent is going mass autocannons, most likely he will have to do tons of glancing to deal with it, and often target priorities shift. Pens' dont really feel like pens anymore, even with melta its hard to wreck it (5+)

[knife&fork]

At below 2k you can still do:

 

Mephiston

4* assault squads in various land raiders

 

and then either

 

2 storm ravens

or

1 storm raven and 2 whirlwinds

 

That actually sounds kinda playable! Certainly different from the preds,  pods and dreads I usually take. 2 ravens are nasty but with 2 whirlwinds staring on the board (hiding behind the LRs) you can hopefully snipe some special weapons and force the opponent to spread out a bit.