are marine mounted lascanons obsolete

[CoffeeGrunt]

Sadly as a Tau player, I've gotten too used to the idea of, "this unit has one job and one equipment set tailored to do that job excellently." Still getting used to mixing units like Space Marines are capable of.

[Master Avoghai]

For me the people I play use a lot of terrian and have units blocking the rhinos providing a cover save, so I have to resort to my Raven wing outflankibg with meltas and plasna

Or am I better off investing my devastator points into a lascanon and missile launcher dreadnought with a drop pod?

Yes but this was the same in v6 so I don't see what would make the lascannons obsolete comparing to v6.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, that was possible in 6th and was very easy to pull off, (though everyone I knew used the Rhinos as cover, not the other way around.)

[ZONKEY]

For me its that one lascanon that misses and doesn't damage or damages and the vehicle gets a save

[CoffeeGrunt]

That's luck, you could have S10 Ap1 Armourbane Lascannons and luck would still be a factor. One-Shot Syndrome is why you never see Railgun Hammerheads or Rail Broadsides anymore. Marines are lucky in that they can cheaply field a battery of Lascannons to compensate.

 

I'd say that Missile Launchers are now fairly useless when sat next to the Lascannon. Zero chance of a lucky Explodes, less Strength, worse AP. Frag Missiles are occasionally handy, but you want Devastators handling the big guys, not the hordes. I'd personally always field Lascannons over Missile Launchers, they're able to achieve so much more.

[ZONKEY]

What about more ssile launchers and the skyfire?

Surely flying units are more common and deadly now?

[CoffeeGrunt]

S7 single-shot Flakk Missiles are pretty terrible now, as they cost a fair bit and don't do a lot of damage when they get there.

[FerociousBeast]

For me the people I play use a lot of terrian and have units blocking the rhinos providing a cover save, so I have to resort to my Raven wing outflankibg with meltas and plasna

Or am I better off investing my devastator points into a lascanon and missile launcher dreadnought with a drop pod?

 

See, the key to victory in all wargames is dictating the flow of the game and restricting your opponent's options. The lascannon's 48" and high lethality is great for that. If you're forcing their vehicles to hide behind infantry cover, that's probably a good thing. You're setting them up for a flanking attack from the Ravenwing.

[Brother dean]

(even with the 5 additional meatshield marines).

5 meatshield marines also lets you shoot at two targets a turn...

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with this (I'll slap myself if I missed a rule), but do you mean shooting at different targets because of combat squadding the 10man squad or do they get Split Fire (which would be new for me...but awesome ). As so for I have simply used the 5 extra marines to protect my Lascannons.. which means they haven't really seen a lot of extra use apart from catching bullets.

Yes, combat squad them and shoot at two different targets (if needed). Sometimes you kill the land raider with the first shot you roll and sometimes you cannot kill it with four shots. Combat squading them at least gives you the option of killing that Raider with the first shot and shooting the other squad at the Pread/vindi that is sniffing around.

As for Skyfire missiles, the flyers that give out problems are all AV12. Flak Missiles give you only a 2 out of 6 chance to do any damage, put another way, that is a 4/6ths chance you are wasting your time.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Not even including that you might Miss, or it may have an Invuln/Jink save to further negate the shot.

[SnakeChisler]

Is it worth having a nephilium instead?

cough, sigh

 

Take an ally and get a grown up plane like the storm raven

 

Las Dev have their place as do Vindicators, in fact Vindicators have been a bit of a winner with this new addition and as a few have pointed out whats not to like about a 48" las squad 

[ZONKEY]

I am unable to ally with other armies, so is a nephilium not worth it?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

If you want to take out flyers the best DA has to offer is a 4 lascannon devastator and librarian with prescience. The good thing is they work very good against ground targets.

Why don't you post an army list in the army list forums with details of what you face against and we'll help you tailor your army?

[Azoriel]

Can you take detachments, like the Storm Wing Formation?  With the Storm Wing, you won't be forced to get an extra troops choice and HQ (though you'll be paying for three flyers, which may end up costing you more points).

[Brother dean]

And we have a discussion of the Nephilim here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286261-lucifers-underdogs-bi-monthly-challenge/

[Cactus]

With cover getting better and everything seeming to get a invulnerable save from a force field or a tree, is it worthwhile packing lascanons in a list?

And can I fight a war of attrition as the dark angels?

Single lascannons are rubbish. Between failing to hit, cover saves and poor rolls on the damage table I rarely find them worth using. Sometimes it's worth having one in a tactical squad and leaving him in a combat squad on an objective with a secondary role of taking shots of opportunity with the lascannon. If you want lascannons to be effective I believe they should be taken in at least pairs, and twin-linked where possible. Land raiders, predators, dreadnoughts and devastator squads are good for this.

To answer your second question you absolutely can fight, and win, a war of attrition with Dark Angels. Grim resolve makes us less likely to run and a fearless character in a unit makes it impossible. We have a range of standards available that also boost morale while giving other benefits. My favourite is a Deathwing command squad with the Sacred Standard of Fortitude in the centre of an infantry-heavy force. Deathwing Knights with feel no pain are a joy to behold. If all that isn't enough, Deathwing vehicle makes the already resilient land raider even more frustrating for your opponent, especially if you bring two or three. Oh yes, and there's the power field generator available to every company master, chaplain, librarian and techmarine.

[ZONKEY]

Awesome :)

[SnakeChisler]

To me the jet is a bit of a non starter its just too points heavy & 1 dimensional for what you get

 

The darktlalon has always had a chance of a place due to flying over the Banner and having 24 shots

 

Now what if I cursed an enemy plane with misfortune making all my shots now rending?