sunspear Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 But I have a couple of questions. It seems like since I have been away, (most of 6th) I need to take bikers and a lord on a bike, I am not a big fan of the models. But I would like to have an army that is a least capable of winning in mostly beer and pretzel games. THough I am sure I will face at least moderately competitive armies now and again. Are the bikers the only way to go now? I am wanting to play but I want to make sure I can use models I like before I start investing all kinds of moolah, thanks for any help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 You do not have to use bikers. In fact I rarely use them and still win plenty of friendly games. The only unit I'd stretch to saying is a must have would be obliterators. They have always done well for me. A lot of my lists use plain chaos marines in rhinos supported by spawn, maulerfiends, noise marines and a contemptor dreadnought for instance. Are you going for an army theme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Bikes actually got downgraded in 7th, now having to declare Jink before hand. While Troops and their Dedicated Transports got a boost with Objective Secured and 7+ Vehicle Explode. I prefer to run various non-competitive fluffy lists when playing amongst my firends (even when they are competitive). But these days the core of my more competitive leaning list centers around some combination of the following: For taking-objectives: Nurgle Chaos Lord with PF & LC + Plague Marines with Plasma + Rhinos Slaneesh Chaos Lord with PF & LC + Noise Marines with (2 Blastmaster, Doom Siren, rest with Boltpistol & CC) + Rhinos Chosen with all Plasma or all Melta or all Flamer depending on my opponent Plague Drones with Icon to allow others to Deep Strike in Daemonettes - since they are cheap, can be taken in numbers, and have rending For anti-armor: Obliterators Havocs in a Bastion Predator or Vindicator (w/Siege Shield) Raptors w/Melta Maulerfiend - if going against multi-wound big stuff but it needs to be protected going in Mayhem Pack For anti-air: Chaos Contemptor Mortis Quad Gun For holding objectives: GUO Plaguebearers with Herald Nurglings Edit - Oh and Belakor. He's awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 To me the difference in performance between a lord on a bike and one on foot is like night and day. Imo the added mobility and survivability is too good to pass up. If not running a lord on bike I would take a winged prince (or take a sorcerer and try avoid combat). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunspear Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks for the quick replies, kilofix- thanks for the breakdown, that gives me something to build off of. clone- as far as theme, so far I just have some modeling ideas, I kinda want them to have a barbaric theme- kinda like conana and some cimmerians in space. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 How are jump lords doing this edition? Are people taking them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks for the quick replies, kilofix- thanks for the breakdown, that gives me something to build off of. clone- as far as theme, so far I just have some modeling ideas, I kinda want them to have a barbaric theme- kinda like conana and some cimmerians in space. Find the WFB model for chaos lord of end times[Archon was his name ???] use him as your bike lord. If you don't like bikes , you can either go with spawn or put them on demonic steeds[seekers, plague beasts etc]. And name your lord Thulsadum[to avoid copyright claims]. How are jump lords doing this edition? Are people taking them? Still bad. being able to jump over obsticles is nothing compering to +1T , specialy for chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 How are jump lords doing this edition? Are people taking them? I haven't used one this edition I must admit though I have been considering using a Jump Sorcerer with Last Memory to run with some Raptors. In a terrain heavy battle they could be quite useful. They have -1T against bikes but I tend to face a lot of things that will wound T6 on a 2+ anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 @Kilofix. Need to take a Blastmaster off the Noise Marine squad. Can only have 1 per 10 marines ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandviper Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Not true. They FAQ'd it so you can take 1 blastmaster at 5 and 2 at 10 noise marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 True, yet if you want to put the Lord in the Rhino with the Marines, you're limited to 9, and hence only one Blastmaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Not true. They FAQ'd it so you can take 1 blastmaster at 5 and 2 at 10 noise marines. Current FAQ (27 May 2014) states you can take a second at 10 or more. So fair point. Guess the Lord walks then ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishope Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 @Kilofix. Need to take a Blastmaster off the Noise Marine squad. Can only have 1 per 10 marines I completely missed this! The new FAQ un-fixed the noise marines, right? edit: Just read the FAQ again. The Noise Marine fix is in the new FAQ as well. 2 Blastmasters for a 10 man sqaud is allowed. Thanks for the quick replies, kilofix- thanks for the breakdown, that gives me something to build off of. clone- as far as theme, so far I just have some modeling ideas, I kinda want them to have a barbaric theme- kinda like conana and some cimmerians in space. Find the WFB model for chaos lord of end times[Archon was his name ???] use him as your bike lord. If you don't like bikes , you can either go with spawn or put them on demonic steeds[seekers, plague beasts etc]. And name your lord Thulsadum[to avoid copyright claims]. How are jump lords doing this edition? Are people taking them? Still bad. being able to jump over obsticles is nothing compering to +1T , specialy for chaos. I disagree with the jeske about this, but I think comes down to personal choice. I love a Slaanesh or a Nurgle Jump Lord in my BL lists. Even Tzeentch sometimes if I'm playing my Thousand Sons CS list. If he is not Nurgle I do have to more careful. @Shuggnuggath I have found recently an unmarked Biomancy Sorc with the Prophet of the Voices in a 5 man Possessed sqaud is awesome, especially if you roll Warp Speed and Iron Arm. This guy and my Jump Lord mentioned above have gained a reputation with my local group and tend to draw enough fire that my Maulerfiends and Defiler get to do serious work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 t4 = dead dude. even t5 is iffy to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishope Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 t4 = dead dude. even t5 is iffy to use. I get your point, but just bubble wrap him with some Raptors. It works pretty well. Its not like we have the only HQ that is less than T6. All the other armies (barring Riptides and Nids in general) have HQs that are T4 or less and they do fine. You just have to protect them until they can get all choppy. Its true that I have lost Lords to a single Lascannon hit, but I learned my lessons from that and it doesn't happen any more. Point being, I don't even own bikes and the only 2 lists that I have had any real trouble with recently is SM Grav bike spam and Eldar Rending spam, but in both of those my Toughness doesn't matter as those guns don't care. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I really want to love the idea of a jump lord, but unfortunately, bikes offer so much more, especially now. The +1T used to fight with deepstrike and the ability to move over terrain, but now bikes can also get a 4+ jink any time you want it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I really want to love the idea of a jump lord, but unfortunately, bikes offer so much more, especially now. The +1T used to fight with deepstrike and the ability to move over terrain, but now bikes can also get a 4+ jink any time you want it... But Snapshots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I really want to love the idea of a jump lord, but unfortunately, bikes offer so much more, especially now. The +1T used to fight with deepstrike and the ability to move over terrain, but now bikes can also get a 4+ jink any time you want it... But Snapshots? I was under the impression that unless you're in a terrain heavy map, you'd still want bikers. A little less now thanks to jink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's not just the +1T, bikes get relentless, jink and turbo-boost all for an extra 3 points. At their price they're a cracking unit. Poor raptors tie in third with Spawn (and probably take a solemn 4th place in our fast attack slot). Raptors aren't bad and I really like the idea of them. Sadly... I'm personally never going to go with a jump pack over a bike for an IC. Not unless I was going jump pack heavy (i.e. Night Lords or my own fluff). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Point for point bikers bring more to the table but raptors are so cool and some times its nice to just use something different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 What does cool mean ? All the other armies (barring Riptides and Nids in general) have HQs that are T4 or less and they do fine. yes ,but they either sit behind re-rollable ++3/++2 or they are like marines HQs [bringing utility in form of Khan or being behind chain and/or eternal shield]. no other melee centered HQs exist in the price range of a chaos lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 What does cool mean ? All the other armies (barring Riptides and Nids in general) have HQs that are T4 or less and they do fine. yes ,but they either sit behind re-rollable ++3/++2 or they are like marines HQs [bringing utility in form of Khan or being behind chain and/or eternal shield]. no other melee centered HQs exist in the price range of a chaos lord. Cool as in they are some really nice models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 @ Clone. Rule of cool is the most important rule. What's the point of playing with plastic models if they don't look awesome and evoke your inner child? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3714948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunspear Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 The rule of cool is definately important to me. I just cant game with models i dont like. Would the crimson slaughter be something i should take a look at? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3715081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Crimson Slaughter lord with Blade of the relentless and Demonheart is glorious.I run mine Mark of Slaanesh, Blade, Demonheart, Horns of Slaughter, & Sigil on a Steed of Slaanesh, with a spawn escort.Is s5, 7 attacks on the initial charge. Make your first charge into a basic squad to power up your weapon (the 3 kills for AP2 is key, but get up to 10 and enemies truly flee in terror before you. )Though I've lost him a couple times to meltaguns, It's only been when his spawn are dead and he got isolated in the backfield. I enjoy running him with the steed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292281-thinking-about-starting-with-the-new-edition/#findComment-3715119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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